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Hi KW,
Did Judas become non human?Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2009,11:55) Hi KW,
Did Judas become non human?Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
I would say Judas willingly became demon possessed but still had a human soul. It is possible he was only influenced by Satan.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote So your definition changes in defense of your doctrine?
I did not change my definition. I was pointing out that Judas is not an example of a human body with a demonic soul but rather he was a case of a human being that was possessed or influenced by a demon. I am unsure whether Judas was possessed or merely influenced by Satan.
God shaped a body for Adam but that body had no soul until God breathed life into it.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2009,02:45) Hi KW,
“thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return”
That is certainly the curse that God place on Adam and through him on the entire human race including Eve for their disobedience. The physical body is perishable and so the soul will be unclothed until God chooses whether or not to cloth it in a new imperishable body. Adam's soul did not come from the ground.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote “THOU ART dust..”
So was Jesus and he died and was returned to the ground and then was resurrected with an imperishable body. Did he stop being Jesus when his body transformed from a perishable one to an imperishable one?
Hi KW,
Was the flesh and bones body with holes in it that he showed the disciples the IMPERISHABLE BODY?
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2009,11:15) Hi KW,
Was the flesh and bones body with holes in it that he showed the disciples the IMPERISHABLE BODY?
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
Joh 20:17 ESV Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'”Joh 20:19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
Joh 20:26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
Joh 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”
Act 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Luk 24:51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.
Hi S,
The body he showed them was flesh and clearly perishable.
He walked though walls but he walked on water in the natural body.
To be able to do such things is not because of any quality of that body.
He had to be raised in the natural body to fulfill the prophecy shown in Acts 2Hi S,
ACTS 2
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
His flesh did not see corruption.
[quote=Nick Hassan,Feb. 19 2009,12:43][/quote]
Quote Was the flesh and bones body with holes in it that he showed the disciples the IMPERISHABLE BODY?
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.Your statement is irrefutable according to scripture.
1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
Quote He walked though walls but he walked on water in the natural body. To be able to do such things is not because of any quality of that body.
Could we just admit we don't know how he did it. Perhaps he
picked the locks or just caused them to open. Perhaps he altered his body. We don't know, from scripture or otherwise,
do we!Hi S,
Compare Lk24
39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.Faith can move mountains.
Has not God instantly transported men before?Acts8
39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.40But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Was the flesh and bones body with holes in it that he showed the disciples the IMPERISHABLE BODY?
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
Remember the context where you are quoting from. Paul was speaking of the perishable body when he stated that “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom”.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote I do believe that the body that Jesus had when he showed the disciples was his imperishable body since he was an example to us that will be raised from the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:20(NIV) reads:
Quote But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
We know a physical body may exist in heaven since Paul stated:
2 Corinthians 12:2(NIV) reads:
Quote I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
Still the man in question was not receiving his inheritance.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote His flesh did not see corruption.
No one is saying otherwise. Still a person’s body can be transformed from perishable to imperishable without that body seeing corruption as it is written:
1 Corinthians 15:52(NIV) reads:
Quote in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed
The same scripture clearly states the dead will be raised imperishable.
Luke 24:37-39(NIV) quote:
Quote They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
Hi KW,
So will we all inherit a damaged imperishable body?
Jesus showed them a damaged body which he said was FLESH AND BONES
Flesh and blood in heaven? Paul was not convinced and neither am I.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2009,13:47) Quote Faith can move mountains.
Has not God instantly transported men before?Obviously Nick. That is not the issue here. Your emphatic statement that you know what is and is not required is the issue (“To be able to do such things is not because of any quality of that body.”)
That is all I simply stated, Could we just admit we don't know how he did it.
I will not begin with you all over again. I simply say “have it your way.”
Enough!!
Hi KW,
There is lots we do not know and cannot know but we need every shred of evidence we can find from the sacred words.Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2009,14:19)
Kerwin,If I may ask you, consider your statement and cited scripture once again.
We know a physical body may exist in heaven since Paul stated:
2 Corinthians 12:2(NIV) reads:[quote]
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
Let me disect that in light of your statement, “we know.”
Paul said, Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know God knows.
I conclude, to the contrary – we do not know – God knows.
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