The Trinity Doctrine

[david]

In the beginning, God said: “Let US make man in OUR image.” Jesus was in the beginning and “with God.”

Who was he speaking to when he said this at the beginning of the creation of the universe?

“This one [The word, Jesus] was in the beginning with God.”

And

“All things [besides himself of course] came into existence through him.”

Of course, the Bible does say God is king of eternity, and he existed by himself before anyone. But it seems that the Bible says Jesus was the “firstborn of creation.”

Anyone?

[gollamudi]

Hi David,
You are forcing scriptures to substitute Jesus for 'word' in Jn 1:1. You are forgetting that there is no difference between the 'word' and God as per Jn 1:1. You people are making 'word' as Jesus and also 'a god' a small god who helped Big God in creation. It is utter failure of Araians and Jws who made God into Poly and Henotheism. That's why I prefer Trinity than all these so-called Arianisms.

Please take care
Adam

[Not3in1]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 04 2008,13:31)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 03 2008,17:23) Hi DK, You had a lot going on in that one post to me.  Let me make mention of the NIV Study Bible and one of it's explainations of the “Let's make man in our image…” passage.  Take a look at it and see what you think. Thanks, Mandy I am familiar with the NIV study bible..the problem I have is that you don't see any other case of GOD speaking in some “kingly third person” anywhere else in scripture

Did he have another opportunity to speak in such a manner?

Could it be an explaination….. I think it could be.

[Not3in1]

Quote (david @ Sep. 04 2008,16:00)

Quote God himself said that he was ALONE when he laid the foundations of the world.  ALONE!  If Jesus was there, he sure didn't get any credit.   Mandy, Of course there is a scripture that says something like this.  I'm wondering which one it is.  Could you please name it?

Nah, I'm too tired. You know which scriptures I'm ref'ing to. They are there….

God said he was alone and that he marked out the heavens with his own HAND. I believe him.

“Arm” can also mean offspring as per the NIV margin notes.

I'm off to bed, it's really late here. Take care, David.
Mandy

[Proclaimer]

“The Trinity is a false doctrine that has deceived many.”

Just needed to get that off my chest.

Thanks.

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2008,18:32)

Quote (david @ Sep. 04 2008,16:00) Quote God himself said that he was ALONE when he laid the foundations of the world.  ALONE!  If Jesus was there, he sure didn't get any credit.   Mandy, Of course there is a scripture that says something like this.  I'm wondering which one it is.  Could you please name it? Nah, I'm too tired.  You know which scriptures I'm ref'ing to.  They are there…. God said he was alone and that he marked out the heavens with his own HAND.  I believe him. “Arm” can also mean offspring as per the NIV margin notes. I'm off to bed, it's really late here.  Take care, David. Mandy

THe question is then…when the bible says JEsus helped God create everything we see…if he in fact didn't..then what are those scriptures refering to? (see my 2nd to last post for the scriptures)

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2008,18:27)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 04 2008,13:31) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 03 2008,17:23) Hi DK, You had a lot going on in that one post to me.  Let me make mention of the NIV Study Bible and one of it's explainations of the “Let's make man in our image…” passage.  Take a look at it and see what you think. Thanks, Mandy I am familiar with the NIV study bible..the problem I have is that you don't see any other case of GOD speaking in some “kingly third person” anywhere else in scripture Did he have another opportunity to speak in such a manner? Could it be an explaination…..  I think it could be.

Yes he did have another opportunity…There are several places where that would have been appropriate..namely when speaking to Job and in Isaiah the 48th chapter..

[Not3in1]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 05 2008,00:20)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2008,18:32) Quote (david @ Sep. 04 2008,16:00) Quote God himself said that he was ALONE when he laid the foundations of the world.  ALONE!  If Jesus was there, he sure didn't get any credit.   Mandy, Of course there is a scripture that says something like this.  I'm wondering which one it is.  Could you please name it? Nah, I'm too tired.  You know which scriptures I'm ref'ing to.  They are there…. God said he was alone and that he marked out the heavens with his own HAND.  I believe him. “Arm” can also mean offspring as per the NIV margin notes. I'm off to bed, it's really late here.  Take care, David. Mandy THe question is then…when the bible says JEsus helped God create everything we see…if he in fact didn't..then what are those scriptures refering to? (see my 2nd to last post for the scriptures)

Interpret difficult scriptures in light of ones that are easier to understand.

If we know that God was ALONE, then other scriptures need to be viewed and understood through these simple truths.

Creating something “through” another person doesn't necessarily mean that person has to have a physical part in the creating. I've created a lot of things through my children before they were even alive!!

Love,
Mandy

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:28)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 05 2008,00:20) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2008,18:32) Quote (david @ Sep. 04 2008,16:00) Quote God himself said that he was ALONE when he laid the foundations of the world.  ALONE!  If Jesus was there, he sure didn't get any credit.   Mandy, Of course there is a scripture that says something like this.  I'm wondering which one it is.  Could you please name it? Nah, I'm too tired.  You know which scriptures I'm ref'ing to.  They are there…. God said he was alone and that he marked out the heavens with his own HAND.  I believe him. “Arm” can also mean offspring as per the NIV margin notes. I'm off to bed, it's really late here.  Take care, David. Mandy THe question is then…when the bible says JEsus helped God create everything we see…if he in fact didn't..then what are those scriptures refering to? (see my 2nd to last post for the scriptures) Interpret difficult scriptures in light of ones that are easier to understand. If we know that God was ALONE, then other scriptures need to be viewed and understood through these simple truths. Creating something “through” another person doesn't necessarily mean that person has to have a physical part in the creating.  I've created a lot of things through my children before they were even alive!! Love, Mandy

ok..i'm listening..explain your concept a little further

[Not3in1]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 05 2008,07:39)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:28) Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 05 2008,00:20) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2008,18:32) Quote (david @ Sep. 04 2008,16:00) Quote God himself said that he was ALONE when he laid the foundations of the world.  ALONE!  If Jesus was there, he sure didn't get any credit.   Mandy, Of course there is a scripture that says something like this.  I'm wondering which one it is.  Could you please name it? Nah, I'm too tired.  You know which scriptures I'm ref'ing to.  They are there…. God said he was alone and that he marked out the heavens with his own HAND.  I believe him. “Arm” can also mean offspring as per the NIV margin notes. I'm off to bed, it's really late here.  Take care, David. Mandy THe question is then…when the bible says JEsus helped God create everything we see…if he in fact didn't..then what are those scriptures refering to? (see my 2nd to last post for the scriptures) Interpret difficult scriptures in light of ones that are easier to understand. If we know that God was ALONE, then other scriptures need to be viewed and understood through these simple truths. Creating something “through” another person doesn't necessarily mean that person has to have a physical part in the creating.  I've created a lot of things through my children before they were even alive!! Love, Mandy ok..i'm listening..explain your concept a little further

Sorry to disappoint you, but that was it.

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:40)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 05 2008,07:39) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:28) Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 05 2008,00:20) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2008,18:32) Quote (david @ Sep. 04 2008,16:00) Quote God himself said that he was ALONE when he laid the foundations of the world.  ALONE!  If Jesus was there, he sure didn't get any credit.   Mandy, Of course there is a scripture that says something like this.  I'm wondering which one it is.  Could you please name it? Nah, I'm too tired.  You know which scriptures I'm ref'ing to.  They are there…. God said he was alone and that he marked out the heavens with his own HAND.  I believe him. “Arm” can also mean offspring as per the NIV margin notes. I'm off to bed, it's really late here.  Take care, David. Mandy THe question is then…when the bible says JEsus helped God create everything we see…if he in fact didn't..then what are those scriptures refering to? (see my 2nd to last post for the scriptures) Interpret difficult scriptures in light of ones that are easier to understand. If we know that God was ALONE, then other scriptures need to be viewed and understood through these simple truths. Creating something “through” another person doesn't necessarily mean that person has to have a physical part in the creating.  I've created a lot of things through my children before they were even alive!! Love, Mandy ok..i'm listening..explain your concept a little further Sorry to disappoint you, but that was it.

…ok i'll ask you again later

[Not3in1]

DK,

I'm afraid I'll have the same answer later. I've been through this before with Nick. It IS possible to do something (create, plan) “through” someone who is not existing physically.

I created a college fun for my children though they were not born yet. THROUGH the plan of them in the future, I created this account. In fact, nothing was created that had been created regarding this account if it wasn't FOR them and THROUGH them. My children didn't do a thing regarding this account although it was entirely for them and through their future arrival that I planned it and put it into action. How could they do anything – they weren't born yet! You get the idea…..

[Tiffany]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,08:41)

DK, I'm afraid I'll have the same answer later.  I've been through this before with Nick.  It IS possible to do something (create, plan) “through” someone who is not existing physically. I created a college fun for my children though they were not born yet.  THROUGH the plan of them in the future, I created this account.  In fact, nothing was created that had been created regarding this account if it wasn't FOR them and THROUGH them.  My children didn't do a thing regarding this account although it was entirely for them and through their future arrival that I planned it and put it into action.  How could they do anything – they weren't born yet!  You get the idea…..

Mandy I believe that nothing is impossible for God. You say that God was alone when He created everything, am I understanding it corrctley?

First in Genesis God created Heaven and Earth. Before that happend however, He brought forth His only Son. In Co. 1:1 and Rev. 3:14 it says that He ( the Word that bcame Jesus) was the firstborn of all creation. That through Him and for Him all was created.

Now get back to Genesis. It does not say God the Father, just God. Could it be Jesus did the creating there?
Later is says ” Let us make man in our image.”
So here both were involved. We have also to remember that the Father is and will always be the Head of all. So through the power of God the Father all was created. I know
you once asked, why the Father would do that. I do not have the answer to that, only that it makes no difference to me.
Peace and Love irene

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,08:41)

DK, I'm afraid I'll have the same answer later.  I've been through this before with Nick.  It IS possible to do something (create, plan) “through” someone who is not existing physically. I created a college fun for my children though they were not born yet.  THROUGH the plan of them in the future, I created this account.  In fact, nothing was created that had been created regarding this account if it wasn't FOR them and THROUGH them.  My children didn't do a thing regarding this account although it was entirely for them and through their future arrival that I planned it and put it into action.  How could they do anything – they weren't born yet!  You get the idea…..

Correct me if i am wrong but it sounds like you believe in pre-destination

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:28)

Creating something “through” another person doesn't necessarily mean that person has to have a physical part in the creating.  I've created a lot of things through my children before they were even alive!! Love, Mandy

A good example of that could be the creation of Eve through or from Adam. Adam didn't actually do anything, but within his genes God made a woman. Similarly, we are born through woman.

When God created all through his son, he also did it for him.

John 1:3-4
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

[dirtyknections]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,11:27)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,07:28) Creating something “through” another person doesn't necessarily mean that person has to have a physical part in the creating.  I've created a lot of things through my children before they were even alive!! Love, Mandy A good example of that could be the creation of Eve through or from Adam. Adam didn't actually do anything, but within his genes God made a woman. Similarly, we are born through woman. When God created all through his son, he also did it for him. John 1:3-4 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

but this difference in the example you cite is that…Adam WAS ALIVE WHEN EVE WAS MADE…and SO WAS CHRIST

[Not3in1]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,11:27)

When God created all through his son, he also did it for him.

If Jesus took part in the creating as some believe, then it wasn't just God doing it “for him”…….Jesus had to help.

Right?

Thanks,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Sep. 05 2008,11:13)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,08:41) DK, I'm afraid I'll have the same answer later.  I've been through this before with Nick.  It IS possible to do something (create, plan) “through” someone who is not existing physically. I created a college fun for my children though they were not born yet.  THROUGH the plan of them in the future, I created this account.  In fact, nothing was created that had been created regarding this account if it wasn't FOR them and THROUGH them.  My children didn't do a thing regarding this account although it was entirely for them and through their future arrival that I planned it and put it into action.  How could they do anything – they weren't born yet!  You get the idea….. Correct me if i am wrong but it sounds like you believe in pre-destination

Just good pre-planning.

[Tiffany]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,18:31)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,11:27) When God created all through his son, he also did it for him. If Jesus took part in the creating as some believe, then it wasn't just God doing it “for him”…….Jesus had to help.   Right? Thanks, Mandy

Mandy! I don't believe that Jesus had to help, rather that
He wanted too. If I for instance am cleaning my
House and my Daughter would come and do it for me,
that does not mean that I could not do it, does it?

Peace and Love Irene

[theodorej]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2008,18:31)

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2008,11:27) When God created all through his son, he also did it for him. If Jesus took part in the creating as some believe, then it wasn't just God doing it “for him”…….Jesus had to help.   Right? Thanks, Mandy

Greetings Mandy……Gods word,by which,he created all things(eg.Let there Be Light,etc.)became Jesus…Nothing is impossible with God….John describes and chronicles the existance of Jesus through his description of Jesus' transition from the Word to the Flesh and says plainly that The Word was God,and was With God and became flesh…The Word is the means by which God created….He simply said it and it was….IMO

[Author]

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