The Trinity Doctrine

[kenrch]

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:18)

Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,17:11) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:51) Hi Oxy, The Father does not have a spirit then? That is odd as the Spirit He refers to as HIS SPIRIT Jl2 ” 29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. ' The Father(1) IS Spirit, The Holy Spirit(2) IS the Spirit of God, The Son(3) IS the Son of God, and the Word of God The Spirit He will pour out is the Holy Spirit. Hence the rise of the Pentecostal church! You see Nick, the Holy Spirit empowers us. With the Holy Spirit we are able to, as it was with the early church, speak in tongues, prophesy, lay hands on the sick and see them healed etc etc. I have done all of these things, but was unable to do so before receiving the Holy Spirit. I wasn't able to do them when I was born again, but I was able to after being baptised in the Holy Spirit. You say the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Do you still contend that this Spirit is a seperate person of the Trinity? Scripture says there is God, who is Spirit. Scripture also talks constantly of the Holy Spirit. The interesting thing is that Scripture differentiates between God and the Holy Spirit. For example, when the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism, God spoke from Heaven. There we have three identities. Jesus, the Word of God being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, and the voice of the Father from Heaven. I tend to steer away from the word trinity as it causes confusion. My understanding is that trinitarians believe in three co-equal beings, which I do not adhere to.

Yes and GOD”S SPIRIT was upon the waters. And God pours HIS SPIRIT upon flesh. His SPIRIT, not a person. Isn't you spirit part of you… but your spirit is not a separate person.

Well good night Oxy.

[Worshipping Jesus]

T8

Quote

I disagree. And the word Father should be no different. For there is ONE Father of all.

Man you are desperate now!

It dosnt say there is “Only One True Father (pater)” does it?

But the scriptures do say there is “Only One True God (Theos)”!!!

Quote

So is Abraham a false father? Is Christ a false father? Is you dad a false father? Is every man who has ever had a son or daughter a false father?

Lets see “One Father of all” yet many fathers, yep that’s scriptural!

Ok, “One Father of all” all other Fathers are false! Nope not scriptural!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 20 2007,11:27)

t8 Thats the point!!! The Father and Yeshua is the only one that the words “True Theos” can be said of in the NT.

Quote

Theos {theh'-os} 1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities 2) the Godhead 3) spoken of the only and true God 3a) refers to the things of God 3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him 4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way 4a) God's representative or viceregent 4a1) of magistrates and judges

t8. Do you see in that definition of Theos the big “G” and the little “g”?

The definition clearly allows for false deitys, goddesses, or divinities.

The obvious opposites of God which are no gods at all.

Also, there is no mention of “Angels” like Seraphim or Cherubim.

Quote

Why don't you write to the concordance editors and tell them to correct their meaning.

Don’t have to. They use the proper definition by holding to a “Monotheistic” theology!

Quote

While you are at it, you could write to the psalmist and Jesus with your correction too. Psalm 97:7 All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you gods (Elohim)! Psalms 82:6 “I said, `You are “gods” (Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.' John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)'

Ok, lets see…

Pss 97:7
Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
8 Zion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Judah rejoiced because of thy judgments, O LORD.
9 For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

The context is the worship of Idols and graven images, gods of men. The psalmist is crying out against the Idol worshippers to worship him.

For the Lord is far above all gods, Idols and graven images.

Pss 82:5
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Wicked kings and rulers. They shall die like men. In what sense were they gods?

Were they divine? There is nothing in these passages to suggest such. Besides if they are considered gods like you say then that would be a contradiction to the Hebrew text which says there is only One God and none other.

Quote

The most amazing thing about this is that Jesus, the psalmist, and the concordances are all wrong and you are right, (according to you)

No, what is amazing is that you insist that Jesus is promoting Henotheism and Polytheism in contradiction to the Hebrew text and his disciples and Paul who never once uttered that there were other gods, but in fact call them so-called gods which are no gods at all.

You still havnt given one example of scripture where the Apostles referred to any other being as “Theos” other than the Father and Yeshua and the obvious opposites.

Quote

Wow, once in a while a real genius rises up.

More patronizing! Weak!

[NickHassan]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,15:35)

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,17:11) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:51) Hi Oxy, The Father does not have a spirit then? That is odd as the Spirit He refers to as HIS SPIRIT Jl2 ” 29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. ' The Father(1) IS Spirit, The Holy Spirit(2) IS the Spirit of God, The Son(3) IS the Son of God, and the Word of God The Spirit He will pour out is the Holy Spirit.  Hence the rise of the Pentecostal church! You see Nick, the Holy Spirit empowers us.  With the Holy Spirit we are able to, as it was with the early church, speak in tongues, prophesy, lay hands on the sick and see them healed etc etc. I have done all of these things, but was unable to do so before receiving the Holy Spirit.  I wasn't able to do them when I was born again, but I was able to after being baptised in the Holy Spirit. You say the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Do you still contend that this Spirit is a seperate person of the Trinity? Scripture says there is God, who is Spirit.  Scripture also talks constantly of the Holy Spirit.  The interesting thing is that Scripture differentiates between God and the Holy Spirit. For example, when the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism, God spoke from Heaven.  There we have three identities.  Jesus, the Word of God being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, and the voice of the Father from Heaven. I tend to steer away from the word trinity as it causes confusion.  My understanding is that trinitarians believe in three co-equal beings, which I do not adhere to. So one God = a voice from heave one God = a dove and one God = Jesus This is not proof of anything.In fact if you would seek out the true translation of Holy Spirit, you would steer away from giving it a aeperate identity. Holy Spirit should be translated the breath set asside for a special purpose.Add that to the truth seen in the OT that clearifies that the breath of God is the animating force of humanity.The source of Life. This is not a sepertate person of God but rather an extension of the Father as he breaths on humanity giving them life. Even the baptiism of the breath of God is a further blowing of God on the people. Jesus is seperate from God in nature and essence in that He is a human being.

Hi martian,
So when God blew His breath into Adam He was giving Him the Holy Spirit?
hmmm.
The fruit was a bit dodgy.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,15:13)

Yes, but does anyone konw what kind of car the Apostles drove? > > > > > > > > A Honda – silly – They were all in one Accord. LOL

Must have been a 12 seater.

[Oxy]

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 20 2007,17:36)

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,17:11) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:51) Hi Oxy, The Father does not have a spirit then? That is odd as the Spirit He refers to as HIS SPIRIT Jl2 ” 29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. ' The Father(1) IS Spirit, The Holy Spirit(2) IS the Spirit of God, The Son(3) IS the Son of God, and the Word of God The Spirit He will pour out is the Holy Spirit.  Hence the rise of the Pentecostal church! You see Nick, the Holy Spirit empowers us.  With the Holy Spirit we are able to, as it was with the early church, speak in tongues, prophesy, lay hands on the sick and see them healed etc etc. I have done all of these things, but was unable to do so before receiving the Holy Spirit.  I wasn't able to do them when I was born again, but I was able to after being baptised in the Holy Spirit. You say the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Do you still contend that this Spirit is a seperate person of the Trinity? Scripture says there is God, who is Spirit.  Scripture also talks constantly of the Holy Spirit.  The interesting thing is that Scripture differentiates between God and the Holy Spirit. For example, when the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism, God spoke from Heaven.  There we have three identities.  Jesus, the Word of God being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, and the voice of the Father from Heaven. I tend to steer away from the word trinity as it causes confusion.  My understanding is that trinitarians believe in three co-equal beings, which I do not adhere to. Yes and GOD”S SPIRIT was upon the waters.  And God pours HIS SPIRIT upon flesh.  His SPIRIT, not a person. Isn't you spirit part of you… but your spirit is not a separate person. Well good night Oxy.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Kenrch.

If Jesus calls Him (the Holy Spirit) He, that's good enough for me.

[Proclaimer]

WJ.

There is one God of all, just as there is one Father of all.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another?

So does that make your dad, Jesus, and Abraham false fathers? No, and even the verse above says that there are other fathers, and they are not false.

There are many fathers, but there is one father of all.
The word God also is not exclusive and we know that there is the Most High God

Both God and Father are titles that are applied to more than the Most High God and Father of all.

Similarly the word Lord is not exclusive to Jesus. Have you ever paid rent to a landlord?

Now for the crunch.

For US there is as follows:

One God, the Father.
One Lord Jesus Christ.

This is not to say that there are not others who are called elohim/theos or kurious who are false.

But you teach differently to what WE are suppose to believe.

Here is what Paul believed.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords“),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

You differ with Paul, so argue with him.

You could start up a denomination called the Anti-Pauls or something. Get a tithing system going and you could even end up with the anti-paul cathedral.

Your argument is with Paul, not US.

We accept the way God, Father, and Lord are used and used in the plural. You are trying to change that.

[Laurel]

No place in Scripture is Y'shua Messiah ever called Father. He is a brother to us WJ!!! You are the perfect example of what believing in the “MYSTERY” trinity of Babylon can do to a persons mind.

[Proclaimer]

True Laurel.

[martian]

WJ say –
t8. Do you see in that definition of Theos the big “G” and the little “g”?

The definition clearly allows for false deitys, goddesses, or divinities.

The obvious opposites of God which are no gods at all.

Also, there is no mention of “Angels” like Seraphim or Cherubim.

REsponse –
Of course the New Testament was (in it's original format) all written in capitol letters wih no punctuation so the manuactured capitol/little “Gs” have no weight at all in the original ext.

[kenrch]

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,18:31)

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 20 2007,17:36) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,17:11) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:51) Hi Oxy, The Father does not have a spirit then? That is odd as the Spirit He refers to as HIS SPIRIT Jl2 ” 29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. ' The Father(1) IS Spirit, The Holy Spirit(2) IS the Spirit of God, The Son(3) IS the Son of God, and the Word of God The Spirit He will pour out is the Holy Spirit. Hence the rise of the Pentecostal church! You see Nick, the Holy Spirit empowers us. With the Holy Spirit we are able to, as it was with the early church, speak in tongues, prophesy, lay hands on the sick and see them healed etc etc. I have done all of these things, but was unable to do so before receiving the Holy Spirit. I wasn't able to do them when I was born again, but I was able to after being baptised in the Holy Spirit. You say the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Do you still contend that this Spirit is a seperate person of the Trinity? Scripture says there is God, who is Spirit. Scripture also talks constantly of the Holy Spirit. The interesting thing is that Scripture differentiates between God and the Holy Spirit. For example, when the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism, God spoke from Heaven. There we have three identities. Jesus, the Word of God being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, and the voice of the Father from Heaven. I tend to steer away from the word trinity as it causes confusion. My understanding is that trinitarians believe in three co-equal beings, which I do not adhere to. Yes and GOD”S SPIRIT was upon the waters. And God pours HIS SPIRIT upon flesh. His SPIRIT, not a person. Isn't you spirit part of you… but your spirit is not a separate person. Well good night Oxy. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Kenrch. If Jesus calls Him (the Holy Spirit) He, that's good enough for me.

Scripture says the Holy Spirit IS God's Spirit. Is that good enough for you? OK, HE the Holy Spirit, is HE a separate person OR God's Spirit?

[martian]

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,18:31)

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 20 2007,17:36) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,17:11) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:51) Hi Oxy, The Father does not have a spirit then? That is odd as the Spirit He refers to as HIS SPIRIT Jl2 ” 29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. ' The Father(1) IS Spirit, The Holy Spirit(2) IS the Spirit of God, The Son(3) IS the Son of God, and the Word of God The Spirit He will pour out is the Holy Spirit.  Hence the rise of the Pentecostal church! You see Nick, the Holy Spirit empowers us.  With the Holy Spirit we are able to, as it was with the early church, speak in tongues, prophesy, lay hands on the sick and see them healed etc etc. I have done all of these things, but was unable to do so before receiving the Holy Spirit.  I wasn't able to do them when I was born again, but I was able to after being baptised in the Holy Spirit. You say the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Do you still contend that this Spirit is a seperate person of the Trinity? Scripture says there is God, who is Spirit.  Scripture also talks constantly of the Holy Spirit.  The interesting thing is that Scripture differentiates between God and the Holy Spirit. For example, when the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism, God spoke from Heaven.  There we have three identities.  Jesus, the Word of God being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, and the voice of the Father from Heaven. I tend to steer away from the word trinity as it causes confusion.  My understanding is that trinitarians believe in three co-equal beings, which I do not adhere to. Yes and GOD”S SPIRIT was upon the waters.  And God pours HIS SPIRIT upon flesh.  His SPIRIT, not a person. Isn't you spirit part of you… but your spirit is not a separate person. Well good night Oxy. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Kenrch. If Jesus calls Him (the Holy Spirit) He, that's good enough for me.

Two points to consider –
1. It is not uncommon to use personal pronouns too describe inanimate objects. We still today call ships she yet I have never seen a sex on a ship nor seen one alive.

2.If you will study the concept of the breath from a Hebrew perspective you will see that the breath of God is in essence God himself. When you are Spirit filled, what fills you? God! As Jesus said the Father was in Him so it is true of us too. Jesus prayed that we might be one with the Father as He is one with the Father. Certainly he is not talking about some oneness in the Trinity. This infilling of God's breath is part of that oneness.

To the Hebrew mind breath was equated with life itself..
From seeing the Breath of God as the animating force of life –
Genesis 2:7?Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

To seeing the lack of breath as the end of life –
Genesis 25:8?Abraham breathed his last and died in a ripe old age, an old man and satisfied with life; and he was gathered to his people
Genesis 25:17?These are the years of the life of Ishmael, one hundred and thirty-seven years; and he breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people.?
Genesis 35:29?Isaac breathed his last and died and was gathered to his people, an old man of ripe age; and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.?
Genesis 49:33?When Jacob finished charging his sons, he drew his feet into the bed and breathed his last, and was gathered to his people.?
Joshua 10:40?Thus Joshua struck all the land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes and all their kings He left no survivor, but he utterly destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.?
Joshua 11:14?All the spoil of these cities and the cattle, the sons of Israel took as their plunder; but they struck every man with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them. They left no one who breathed.

When God brought the flood He is very specific in saying what was taken from man and beast to end their life.
Genesis 7:22?of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died.
Genesis 6:17?”Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
God gives us the animation spirit/breath which gives us life.
Psalm 104:29?You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7?then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

When Jesus died it is said that He gave up His spirit. That which was from God and gave Christ life was given up.
This is not to be confused with what we refer to as the filling of the “Holy Spirit”. Holy means set aside for a special purpose and of course Spirit means breath. While having the breath/spirit of life gives us life, the filling of the Holy Spirit gives us life more abundantly by guiding comforting, strengthening and all the other attributes we commonly associate with it.
Col 2/9 depicts Jesus as having the fullness of the essence of God in Him. The essence of God is Spirit. Jesus was spirit filled like no one else. Jesus was alive like no other man has been. He saw and did things that other men marveled at. He saw people’s thoughts operated the power of God and had communion with God like no other. He carried authority because He carried within him the very essence of God’s spirit/breath.
The work that the messiah accomplished allowed us to have the measure of the life/breath/spirit that he had. This is how we come to the full stature of Christ and are joint heirs with Him. We inherit God and become one with Him even as Christ our forerunner did. (John 10)
To answer your post – God is spirit. He is spirit-Spirit is he. The set aside breath of God is God himself. It can accurately be called “He” without indicating a different person then the Father. When my spirit leaves me, I will no longer really be a he, I will be a bag of soggy chemicals/dust. My real permanent make up is my spirit/breath given me by God. Those that have departed this worl
d are still alive in that their spirit/spirit/breath still exists. When I speak of Moses on the other side, I call him a he though he is now a spiritual being.

[IM4Truth]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 20 2007,18:51)

WJ. There is one God of all, just as there is one Father of all. Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another? So does that make your dad, Jesus, and Abraham false fathers? No, and even the verse above says that there are other fathers, and they are not false. There are many fathers, but there is one father of all. The word God also is not exclusive and we know that there is the Most High God Both God and Father are titles that are applied to more than the Most High God and Father of all. Similarly the word Lord is not exclusive to Jesus. Have you ever paid rent to a landlord? Now for the crunch. For US there is as follows: One God, the Father. One Lord Jesus Christ. This is not to say that there are not others who are called elohim/theos or kurious who are false. But you teach differently to what WE are suppose to believe. Here is what Paul believed. 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords“), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. Ephesians 4:4-6 4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called   5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. You differ with Paul, so argue with him. You could start up a denomination called the Anti-Pauls or something. Get a tithing system going and you could even end up with the anti-paul cathedral. Your argument is with Paul, not US. We accept the way God, Father, and Lord are used and used in the plural. You are trying to change that.

t8 It is not amazing to me that some like W.J. can't see that the trinity Doctrine is wrong. I truly belief that God has called many but not ALL. Only when we have received the Holy Spirit can we understand the things of God. There are how many pages about the trinity now? I read the article you wrote on page 1 and found it very informative and anybody with God's Holy Spirit will understand.
Coming out of a Church that teaches the trinity is not easy to do. When we left the Catholic Church we lost all friends.
But I rather stay Home and know that God is on my side then to belong to any Church that teaches the wrong doctrine.
We are to fear God and not men.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[NickHassan]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 21 2007,03:27)

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,18:31) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 20 2007,17:36) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:18) Quote (martian @ Dec. 20 2007,17:11) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 20 2007,15:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 20 2007,16:51) Hi Oxy, The Father does not have a spirit then? That is odd as the Spirit He refers to as HIS SPIRIT Jl2 ” 29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. ' The Father(1) IS Spirit, The Holy Spirit(2) IS the Spirit of God, The Son(3) IS the Son of God, and the Word of God The Spirit He will pour out is the Holy Spirit.  Hence the rise of the Pentecostal church! You see Nick, the Holy Spirit empowers us.  With the Holy Spirit we are able to, as it was with the early church, speak in tongues, prophesy, lay hands on the sick and see them healed etc etc. I have done all of these things, but was unable to do so before receiving the Holy Spirit.  I wasn't able to do them when I was born again, but I was able to after being baptised in the Holy Spirit. You say the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Do you still contend that this Spirit is a seperate person of the Trinity? Scripture says there is God, who is Spirit.  Scripture also talks constantly of the Holy Spirit.  The interesting thing is that Scripture differentiates between God and the Holy Spirit. For example, when the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism, God spoke from Heaven.  There we have three identities.  Jesus, the Word of God being baptised, the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, and the voice of the Father from Heaven. I tend to steer away from the word trinity as it causes confusion.  My understanding is that trinitarians believe in three co-equal beings, which I do not adhere to. Yes and GOD”S SPIRIT was upon the waters.  And God pours HIS SPIRIT upon flesh.  His SPIRIT, not a person. Isn't you spirit part of you… but your spirit is not a separate person. Well good night Oxy. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Kenrch. If Jesus calls Him (the Holy Spirit) He, that's good enough for me. Two points to consider – 1. It is not uncommon to use personal pronouns too describe inanimate objects. We still today call ships she yet I have never seen a sex on a ship nor seen one alive. 2.If you will study the concept of the breath from a Hebrew perspective you will see that the breath of God is in essence God himself. When you are Spirit filled, what fills you? God! As Jesus said the Father was in Him so it is true of us too. Jesus prayed that we might be one with the Father as He is one with the Father. Certainly he is not talking about some oneness in the Trinity. This infilling of God's breath is part of that oneness. To the Hebrew mind breath was equated with life itself.. From seeing the Breath of  God as the animating force of life – Genesis 2:7?Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. To seeing the lack of breath as the end of life – Genesis 25:8?Abraham breathed his last and died in a ripe old age, an old man and satisfied with life; and he was gathered to his people Genesis 25:17?These are the years of the life of Ishmael, one hundred and thirty-seven years; and he breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people.? Genesis 35:29?Isaac breathed his last and died and was gathered to his people, an old man of ripe age; and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.? Genesis 49:33?When Jacob finished charging his sons, he drew his feet into the bed and breathed his last, and was gathered to his people.? Joshua 10:40?Thus Joshua struck all the land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes and all their kings He left no survivor, but he utterly destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.? Joshua 11:14?All the spoil of these cities and the cattle, the sons of Israel took as their plunder; but they struck every man with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them. They left no one who breathed. When God brought the flood He is very specific in saying what was taken from man and beast to end their life. Genesis 7:22?of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died. Genesis 6:17?”Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish. God gives us the animation spirit/breath which gives us life. Psalm 104:29?You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust. Ecclesiastes 12:7?then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. When Jesus died it is said that He gave up His spirit. That which was from God and gave Christ life was given up. This is not to be confused with what we refer to as the filling of the “Holy Spirit”. Holy means set aside for a special purpose and of course Spirit means breath. While having the breath/spirit of life gives us life, the filling of the Holy Spirit gives us life more abundantly by guiding comforting, strengthening and all the other attributes we commonly associate with it. Col 2/9 depicts Jesus as having the fullness of the essence of God in Him. The essence of God is Spirit. Jesus was spirit filled like no one else. Jesus was alive like no other man has been. He saw and did things that other men marveled at. He saw people’s thoughts operated the power of God and had communion with God like no other. He carried authority because He carried within him the very essence of God’s spirit/breath. The work that the messiah accomplished allowed us to have the measure of the life/breath/spirit that he had. This is how we come to the full stature of Christ and are joint heirs with Him. We inherit God and become one with Him even as Christ our forerunner did. (John 10) To answer your post – God is spirit. He is spirit-Spirit is he. The set aside breath of God is God himself. It can accurately be called “He” without indicating a different person then the Father. When my spirit leaves me, I will no longer really be a he, I will be a bag of soggy chemicals/dust. My real permanent make up is my spirit/breath given me by God. Those that have departed this world are still alive in that their spirit/spirit/breath still exists. When I speak of Moses on the other side, I call him a he though he is now a spiritual being.

Hi martian,
Where is the Spirit of God called the breath of God in scripture or is this an assumption on your part?

My breath is not my spirit

Certainly I have breath in my body because God has graciously not taken back yet my spirit.

But the two are not the same are they?

My spirit gives me transient mortal life but the immortal Spirit of God gives immortal life[zoe]even after I die. I hope for eternal life now because I do not just go to the well each day with my bucket [Eccl 12] but the fountain that Christ gives well up in me to eternal life.

[martian]

Nick ask –
Where is the Spirit of God called the breath of God in scripture or is this an assumption on your part?

Response
it is a proper translation of the Greek work pneuma and the Hebrew word ru’ach.
Pneuma literally means wind or breath.
Ru’ach literally means wind. The child root ru'ach is literally the wind that follows a prescribed path each season. By extension ru'ach means the wind of a man or what is usually translated as spirit.
The ru’ach or Pneuma of God is the wind or breath of God.
I am not going to list all hendreds of the verses. Just a few.
Old Testament
Ge 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (ru’ach, wind/breath) of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Ge 6:3
And the LORD said, My spirit (ru’ach, wind/breath) shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Ge 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath (ru’ach, wind/breath) of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Ge 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath (ru’ach, wind/breath) of life.
Ge 7:22
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Ge 8:1
And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind (ru’ach, wind/breath) to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;

Ex 15:8
And with the blast (ru’ach, wind/breath) of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.
Ex 15:10
Thou didst blow with thy wind, (ru’ach, wind/breath) the sea covered them: they sank as lead in the mighty waters.
Ex 28:3
And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit (ru’ach) of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
Ex 31:3
And I have filled him with the spirit (ru’ach, breath or wind) of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

1Sa 10:6
And the Spirit (ru’ach breath or wind) of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
1Sa 10:10
And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit (ru’ach breath or wind) of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

New Testament

Mt 1:18 –
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. (Pneuma breath or wind)

Mt 1:20 –
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. (Pneuma breath or wind)

Mt 3:11 –
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, (Pneuma breath or wind) and with fire:

Mt 3:16 –
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mt 4:1 –
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)
into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2Co 1:22 –
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)in our hearts.

2Co 3:3 –
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Co 3:6 –
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: (Pneuma breath or wind) for the letter killeth, but the spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)giveth life.

2Co 3:8 –
How shall not the ministration of the spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)be rather glorious?

2Co 3:17 –
Now the Lord is that Spirit: (Pneuma breath or wind)and where the Spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Co 3:18 –
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit (Pneuma breath or wind)of the Lord.

2Co 5:5 –
Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. (Pneuma breath or wind)

2Co 6:6 –
By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, (Pneuma breath or wind)by love unfeigned,

2Co 13:14 –
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, (Pneuma breath or wind)be with you all. Amen.

Ac 1:2 –
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost (pneuma breath or wind)had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Ac 1:5 –
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost (pneuma breath or wind)not many days hence.

Ac 1:8 –
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost (pneuma breath or wind)is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Ac 1:16 –
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost (pneuma breath or wind)by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Ac 2:4 –
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, (pneuma breath or wind)and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Ac 2:17 –
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit (pneuma breath or wind)upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Ac 2:18 –
And on my servants and on my handmaidensI will pour out in those days of my Spirit; (pneuma breath or wind)and they shall prophesy:

Ac 2:33 –
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, (pneuma breath or wind)he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Ac 2:38 –
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (pneuma breath or wind)

It does not take rocket science to establish that Ru’ach in Hebrew and Pneuma in Greek both carry the meaning of breath or wind. Now before you start some silly questions, I do not believe that God is literally a wind. Hebrews speak and write in poetic or concrete terms.

[NickHassan]

Hi martian,
Gen 2.7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

n@shamah {nesh-aw-maw'}
Word Origin:
from 5395
TWOT:
1433a
Part of Speech:
noun feminine
Usage in the KJV:
breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1

Total: 24
Definition:
breath, spirit
breath (of God)
breath (of man)
every breathing thing
spirit (of man)

So there is no suggestion that man was given the Spirit of God at his inception.

[martian]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2007,06:49)

Hi martian, Gen 2.7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. n@shamah {nesh-aw-maw'} Word Origin: from 5395 TWOT: 1433a Part of Speech: noun feminine Usage in the KJV: breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1 Total: 24 Definition: breath, spirit breath (of God) breath (of man) every breathing thing spirit (of man) So there is no suggestion that man was given the Spirit of God at his inception.

OK then what went into Adam that made him a living soul.
What is the breath of life if not God's breath/ His very presence.

[NickHassan]

Hi martian,
So the presence of God lives in all men?
This is a new teaching.
Scripture does say God is close to all men but only some have God living within unto eternal life.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 20 2007,19:13)

No place in Scripture is Y'shua Messiah ever called Father.  He is a brother to us WJ!!!  You are the perfect example of what believing in the “MYSTERY” trinity of Babylon can do to a persons mind.

Laurel

What Bible are you reading?

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Christ is more than a brother!

He is the sustainer and giver of all life. He is the light that lighteth everyman that comes into the world. He is my rock and my shield and my defence. He is the door and gatekeeper, the Great Shephard that fills all things and upholds all things by the Word of “His Power” and by him all things consist!

Is he not also a Father?

Abraham is the Father of many nations.

Gen 17:5
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Do you think Yeshua by whom all things were created for, is not a Father?

What about the Apostle Paul?

1 Cor 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Was Paul not a Father in the faith.

What about the early Fathers?

Yeshua is also our “Husband”…

Matt 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Do you think he is not our husband because he is our brother?

You critisize me and my faith and you know nothing about my love for the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I might say what happens to a mind that only sees Yeshua as a mere man.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
“But for us there is ONE GOD the Father
….and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST.”

That verse should clear up all your confusion
but I doubt it will.

[Author]

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