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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,11:55) Hi Oxy,
Is Jesus not the Son of God?
Why do you ask that question Nick. Scripture states that He is and you and I both know it.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,13:11) Hi Oxy,
So does not being the Son of God
preclude him also
Being that God of Whom he is the Son?
Not sure what you're saying here NickScripture says that He was made a little lower than the angels. He gave up His former position to submit to becoming flesh. So the answer to your question is no. But you already knew that. I don't see your point.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,13:41) Hi Oxy,
So Christ was a normal man anointed by the Spirit of God that we can follow?
I agree.
I wouldn't go as far as to call Him normal. He is/was the Son of God and didn't sin. I'd hardly call that normal. He was definately anointed by the Holy Spirit.Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,11:00) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 17 2007,10:38) Interpretation: Just because the Trinity is not mentioned or taught in scripture, doesn't make it not true.
Evolution isn't taught either Oxy.
The point is that the Trinity is the Roman Catholic faith. It is believed by many to be the foundation of the Christian faith.
And yet it isn't taught in scripture. The worst part is that certain people defend this doctrine even knowing this.
Some of these people are even aware of the deaths of some who opposed this doctrine. People were burnt at the stake for not accepting the Trinity doctrine. They were called heretics and they were murdered by a great persecutor.
The Trinity doctrine is the foundation of a system that is about hiding truth from people. Why does anyone want to be part of the system that protects this doctrine and has sinned greatly in doing so.
It is appropriate to come out of her.
Thanks t8.I think I have been redeemed by the wise and wonderful from being a trinitarian on this site lol. The concept of the trinity doctrine seems to be God consisting of 3 co-equal beings, which I do not subscribe to.
However, I will not deny the fact that Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as “Him” on many occasions and also “Whom”.
I trust Jesus.
From the onset of the use of the “English “term Holy Spirit ,it has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. In the Hebrew thee words have the following meaning.Holy –
When we use the word holy, as in a holy person, we usually associate this with a righteous or pious person. If we use this concept when interpreting the word holy in the Hebrew Bible then we are misreading the text as this is not the meaning of the Hebrew word qadosh. Qadosh literally means “to be set apart for a special purpose”. A related word, qedesh, is one who is also set apart for a special purpose but not in the same way we think of “holy” but is a male prostitute (Deut 23:17). Israel was qadosh because they were separated by the other nations as servants of God. The furnishings in the tabernacle were qadosh as they were not to be used for anything except for the work in the tabernacle. While we may not think of ourselves as “holy” we are in fact set apart from the world to be God's servants and representatives.
Spirit –
The Hebrew word ru'ach literally means the wind and is derived from the parent root rach a prescribed path. The word rach is not found in the Biblical text but defined by the various child roots derived from it. The child roots derived from this parent root are arach, rachah and yarach. Arach is a traveler who follows a prescribed path from one place to another. Rachah is a millstone which goes round and round in the sense of following a prescribed path to crush grain into flour. Yarach is the root of yere'ach meaning the moon which follows a prescribed path in the night sky. The child root ru'ach is literally the wind that follows a prescribed path each season. By extension ru'ach means the wind of a man or what is usually translated as spirit. A man's wind is not just a spiritual entity within a man but is understood by the Ancient Hebrews as his character.
The term “Holy Spirit” literally means the breath set aside for a special purpose.. The breath was also thought of in terms of the source of life that animates and leads a person. For example God “breathed” life into Adam and he became a living soul. Scripture speaks of taking the life of all in the flood that had the breath of life in them. When one stopped breathing his life was over. It seems reasonable that this is the breath of God set aside to be our source of life. The more of God’s breath we have the more filled with the Spirit we are.
Though I have been speaking of the Hebrew the Spirit/breath of God does not change from the Old Testament to the New. Spirit in Greek is also breath or wind, following the same principles. The Hebrew writers of the Greek New Testament still wrote from a Hebrew perspective and about Hebrew concepts. Hebrew mindset viewed a revealing of God as if it were God himself. Example – Moses and the burning bush. God is not a bush but Moses dealt with it as if it were God himself.
A revealing of God through His” set aside breath “would be given a pronoun status both because it is a revealing of God and because it is literally the essence of God Himself (Spirit). This in no way makes it a separate person of God but rather YHWH being revealed in His animating/guiding presence in humanity.Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,13:41) Hi Oxy,
So Christ was a normal man anointed by the Spirit of God that we can follow?
I agree.
I wouldn't go as far as to call Him normal. He is/was the Son of God and didn't sin. I'd hardly call that normal. He was definately anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Hi Oxy,
Scripture calls him a man but you cannot?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,14:20) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,13:41) Hi Oxy,
So Christ was a normal man anointed by the Spirit of God that we can follow?
I agree.
I wouldn't go as far as to call Him normal. He is/was the Son of God and didn't sin. I'd hardly call that normal. He was definately anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Hi Oxy,
Scripture calls him a man but you cannot?
Good grief Nick. Where did I say He isn't/wasn't a man? And you accuse me of presumption!Of course He was a man!
But you described Him as “normal”. A “normal” man does not measure up to the Son of God, in that context I said I wouldn't call Him normal.
Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,14:20) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,13:41) Hi Oxy,
So Christ was a normal man anointed by the Spirit of God that we can follow?
I agree.
I wouldn't go as far as to call Him normal. He is/was the Son of God and didn't sin. I'd hardly call that normal. He was definately anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Hi Oxy,
Scripture calls him a man but you cannot?
Good grief Nick. Where did I say He isn't/wasn't a man? And you accuse me of presumption!Of course He was a man!
But you described Him as “normal”. A “normal” man does not measure up to the Son of God, in that context I said I wouldn't call Him normal.
He was made like his brethren in every way.
If he is not just like us then he is not the perfect example for us.Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:05) I wouldn't go as far as to call Him normal. He is/was the Son of God and didn't sin. I'd hardly call that normal. He was definately anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Actually that begs the question: What is normal? He is God's example to which we should follow, so he is normal and 'supernormal' at the same time.Quote (martian @ Dec. 17 2007,14:49) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,14:20) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,13:41) Hi Oxy,
So Christ was a normal man anointed by the Spirit of God that we can follow?
I agree.
I wouldn't go as far as to call Him normal. He is/was the Son of God and didn't sin. I'd hardly call that normal. He was definately anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Hi Oxy,
Scripture calls him a man but you cannot?
Good grief Nick. Where did I say He isn't/wasn't a man? And you accuse me of presumption!Of course He was a man!
But you described Him as “normal”. A “normal” man does not measure up to the Son of God, in that context I said I wouldn't call Him normal.
He was made like his brethren in every way.
If he is not just like us then he is not the perfect example for us.
Beg to differ. My father was not God. I was born in sin, Jesus was not.There had to be something different about Him that enabled Him not to sin.
I am not like Him, but am working towards that goal, and one day i will be transformed.
Oxy,
You seem to seperate the Term Spirit and Father as if this indicates seperate persons within God.
Neither of these terms are indicater of persons but rather describe character traits of the sme single God. Father means “one who gives strength to the famly and spirit means the breath set asside for a special purpose. Another quote from Jeff Benner –
When we see a name such as “King David” we see the word “King” as a title and “David” as a name. In our western mind a title describes a character trait while a name is simply an identifier. In the Hebrew language there is no such distinction between names and titles. Both words, King and David, are descriptions of character traits, King is “one who reigns” while David is “one who is loved”. It is also common to identify the word “Elohiym” (God) as a title and YHWH (Yahweh, the LORD, Jehovah) as a name. What we do not realize is that both of these are character traits, YHWH meaning “the one who exists” and Elohiym is “one who has power and authority”. The Hebrew word “shem” more literally means “character”. When the Bible speaks of taking God's name to the nations, he is not talking about the name itself but his character. When the command to not take God's name in vain literally means not to represent his character in a false manner. It is similar to our expression of “having a good name” which is not about the name itself but the character of the one with that name.Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.
Did the Father send Himself?
Quote (martian @ Dec. 17 2007,14:54) Oxy,
You seem to seperate the Term Spirit and Father as if this indicates seperate persons within God.
Neither of these terms are indicater of persons but rather describe character traits of the sme single God. Father means “one who gives strength to the famly and spirit means the breath set asside for a special purpose. Another quote from Jeff Benner –
When we see a name such as “King David” we see the word “King” as a title and “David” as a name. In our western mind a title describes a character trait while a name is simply an identifier. In the Hebrew language there is no such distinction between names and titles. Both words, King and David, are descriptions of character traits, King is “one who reigns” while David is “one who is loved”. It is also common to identify the word “Elohiym” (God) as a title and YHWH (Yahweh, the LORD, Jehovah) as a name. What we do not realize is that both of these are character traits, YHWH meaning “the one who exists” and Elohiym is “one who has power and authority”. The Hebrew word “shem” more literally means “character”. When the Bible speaks of taking God's name to the nations, he is not talking about the name itself but his character. When the command to not take God's name in vain literally means not to represent his character in a false manner. It is similar to our expression of “having a good name” which is not about the name itself but the character of the one with that name.
Thanks Martian. I am familiar with this concept.Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:54) Quote (martian @ Dec. 17 2007,14:49) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,14:20) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,13:41) Hi Oxy,
So Christ was a normal man anointed by the Spirit of God that we can follow?
I agree.
I wouldn't go as far as to call Him normal. He is/was the Son of God and didn't sin. I'd hardly call that normal. He was definately anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Hi Oxy,
Scripture calls him a man but you cannot?
Good grief Nick. Where did I say He isn't/wasn't a man? And you accuse me of presumption!Of course He was a man!
But you described Him as “normal”. A “normal” man does not measure up to the Son of God, in that context I said I wouldn't call Him normal.
He was made like his brethren in every way.
If he is not just like us then he is not the perfect example for us.
Beg to differ. My father was not God. I was born in sin, Jesus was not.There had to be something different about Him that enabled Him not to sin.
I am not like Him, but am working towards that goal, and one day i will be transformed.
1. God is your father as source through Adam.
2. You were not born in sin. If you were then had you died at one hour old you would have gone to hell. That ideology is an old Calvinistic doctrine debunked a million times from sunday.
3. If he was not tempted like al men with the same possibility of consequinces then scripture lies.
4. Jesus is our example – If he had an advantage in overcoming sin, how does that help me be like Him? That makes him less of an example for us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,14:46) Hi Oxy,
Are there other kinds of men from NORMAL MEN?
He was one of us. We can follow him.
Nick Jesus had Gods Holy Spirit full strenght, is there or was there any other man on this earth that possed that? Not to my knowledge. That makes Jesus somewhat special and not just a normal man. A normal man would have sinned. Jesus could not have sinned, even tho He was tempted in any way we are by Satan. You have to remember that He knew what was at stake here and for that reason I believe He would not sin.
In my own life I have experienced how the Holy Spirit works in me, when I get tempted by Satan and even a white lie for instant would hurt me if I did it. I mean physicall hurt me. That is how I see that Jesus could not sin. Big test that I have failed in my life makes me feel really bad all over. That is how we grow, but Jesus already was the Son of God. That is and makes Him diffrent.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,14:57) Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you. Did the Father send Himself?
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
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