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In addition — There are those on these types of boards that on;y wish to have intelectual debateand argue doctrine. Like the philosophers of ancient Greece they seek a tickling of the ear or soem new twist of intelect. As Christians ae goals are supposed to be something different. Our goals are to become like Christ. Everything we learn about God and His plan for us should work toward that goal. In otherwords it should have a function.
The Trinity has no function. It makes Jesus a God and not a viable example for us. It makes becomeing like Christ an unattainable goal. This nulifies God's plan for humanity. That makes it dysfunctional in God's economy.Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,04:16) The word “evil” has been thrown about with much abandon. I wonder if we all really understand the concept of Evil from a biblical perspective. The word “Good” (tov , Heb) would be better translated as functional. The opposite of this word is “ra”. these two words are used in the knowledge of good (tov) and evil (ra) In otherwords the knowledge of function and disfunction. God, His creation, His teachings, and His children should be functional. All teachings that prepose to help us, should function within God’s plan for His creation.
In this respect the English word evil in scripture does not carry the jaded coloring so often placed on it be our Western thought. God as the creator does not philosophize about His creation, He makes it functional. He allows us the choice to dwell in His functionality or to operate in dysfunction. It is the same with teaching about His nature. We can choose to understand Him from a functional standpoint. A stand that actually makes God’s plan work to accomplish something or we can choose to dwell in a mystical dysfunctional teaching that serves no purposeful end. In the same way we tend to translate someone who holds to a dysfunctional teaching as being “evil”. All of us have beliefs and promote teachings that are dysfunctional to some degree. Not one of us have all the truth in it’s entirety. While it is true that some dysfunctions are more damaging then others, they all hold us back from completing the perfecting process of God’s plan.
Hi Martian,
Using FUNCTION in various ways 13 times in one post when you have several threads going on the same thought gives the impression that you are determined that we believe you but really it probably has the opposite effect to harp on the same idea over and over again.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,07:21) Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,04:16) The word “evil” has been thrown about with much abandon. I wonder if we all really understand the concept of Evil from a biblical perspective. The word “Good” (tov , Heb) would be better translated as functional. The opposite of this word is “ra”. these two words are used in the knowledge of good (tov) and evil (ra) In otherwords the knowledge of function and disfunction. God, His creation, His teachings, and His children should be functional. All teachings that prepose to help us, should function within God’s plan for His creation.
In this respect the English word evil in scripture does not carry the jaded coloring so often placed on it be our Western thought. God as the creator does not philosophize about His creation, He makes it functional. He allows us the choice to dwell in His functionality or to operate in dysfunction. It is the same with teaching about His nature. We can choose to understand Him from a functional standpoint. A stand that actually makes God’s plan work to accomplish something or we can choose to dwell in a mystical dysfunctional teaching that serves no purposeful end. In the same way we tend to translate someone who holds to a dysfunctional teaching as being “evil”. All of us have beliefs and promote teachings that are dysfunctional to some degree. Not one of us have all the truth in it’s entirety. While it is true that some dysfunctions are more damaging then others, they all hold us back from completing the perfecting process of God’s plan.
Hi Martian,
Using FUNCTION in various ways 13 times in one post when you have several threads going on the same thought gives the impression that you are determined that we believe you but really it probably has the opposite effect to harp on the same idea over and over again.
And just exactly how many threds discuss the Trinity. Hoe long are you going to harp on the Trinity doctrine. How mant times are yu going to argue the same scriptures, the same truths with posters like WJ? What fruits do you seek to accomplish with this? Both sides are equally wrong. Both sides seek to prove their point through Western ideologies and proof texts. God does not care what scripture you can quote. How many verbs you can comjure in Greek or how ,many proof texts you can write over and over and over. God is concerned about us becoming like Christ. What ever hinders that is wrong. Whatever helps that is right.No one on this board can claim to understand scripture unless they understand the Hebrew mindset, culture and original language. Without understanding these Hebrew concepts, you end up with intelectualized philosphy, derived from Western Cultures that are not at all like the Hebrew culture of the Bible.
You say I use function 13 times. The concept of prpose or function is simple common sense. Do you want me to become like many on this board that do not understand common sense? To continually post the same scriptures and derive the same fruit WHICH IS NONE
It is an unfortunate fact that most of Christianity believes that if you can just get a doctrine down intelectually you will have attained in that area. what utter nonsense.The first and most important fruit of understanding doctrine is experiantial. What do you experiance in the way of fruit in your character/life by following this doctrine. That is the essence of functionality. After a person experiances it then and ony then does he use his intelect to understand what he just experianced. Walking with Christ is about experiancial relationship not about intelectualised debate on head knowledge.
Hi Martian,
I hope to establish the scriptural principle that doctrinal truth is found taught in scripture.
Those who teach beyond what is taught in scripture are on their own.
They have stepped from the safety of the words of Christ.
It is to him they will have to explain such an action.Tell me, how did you get saved? Did you read a treatise on salvation or understand it intellectually? Did you mentally ascend to salvation? I doubt it. Like the rest of us you had a drawing on your heart. You somehow turned to God and he lifted the burden of sin and you knew you were saved. It did not matter how many screwed up concepts you had about him or his nature. YOU HAD AN EXPERIENCE THAT NO INTELECTUALIZED HEAD DATA CAN DUPLICATE. Oh sure you can study it and understand it intellectually both before or after, but you do not posses it till you experience it. The reason this is true is because salvation works. It does something experientially. It continues to produce fruit even now. This is functionality. Whether you understand it or not. Whether you believe it or not. You operate it in all true doctrines. You have experienced a functional doctrine in salvation.
Now you can complain about my “harping” on functionality, but what are you really complaining about? Are you complaining that I test all teachings to see if they produce fruit in keeping with the plan of God? Are you complaining that I insist that this testing must be done? When you say you do not want to hear about functionality, you are actually saying is that you are more interested in philosophy and intellectual debate then about changing from glory to glory. What other purpose do we have but to seek fruit in keeping with God’s plan?
Perhaps there are those that are happy without an experiential God. Perhaps there are those that seek the philosophy of Christianity. As for me I want to follow Jesus. I want to experience the oneness with God that He prayed I would have. I want to know him and the power of his resurrection. I do not want to just know about them, I want to experience them. To do so, I must have teachings that actually do something to get me there. . They actually have a purpose and function that helps me become like Christ. As I said, perhaps some have other goals on this site.martian You know what, you are to wise in your eyes for me. Only you are right and that I have heard so many times before on this website. Good luck you are going to need it. You don't know what each of us is like, but you act like you know it all. I depend on God not on men.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,07:55) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,07:21) Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,04:16) The word “evil” has been thrown about with much abandon. I wonder if we all really understand the concept of Evil from a biblical perspective. The word “Good” (tov , Heb) would be better translated as functional. The opposite of this word is “ra”. these two words are used in the knowledge of good (tov) and evil (ra) In otherwords the knowledge of function and disfunction. God, His creation, His teachings, and His children should be functional. All teachings that prepose to help us, should function within God’s plan for His creation.
In this respect the English word evil in scripture does not carry the jaded coloring so often placed on it be our Western thought. God as the creator does not philosophize about His creation, He makes it functional. He allows us the choice to dwell in His functionality or to operate in dysfunction. It is the same with teaching about His nature. We can choose to understand Him from a functional standpoint. A stand that actually makes God’s plan work to accomplish something or we can choose to dwell in a mystical dysfunctional teaching that serves no purposeful end. In the same way we tend to translate someone who holds to a dysfunctional teaching as being “evil”. All of us have beliefs and promote teachings that are dysfunctional to some degree. Not one of us have all the truth in it’s entirety. While it is true that some dysfunctions are more damaging then others, they all hold us back from completing the perfecting process of God’s plan.
Hi Martian,
Using FUNCTION in various ways 13 times in one post when you have several threads going on the same thought gives the impression that you are determined that we believe you but really it probably has the opposite effect to harp on the same idea over and over again.
And just exactly how many threds discuss the Trinity. Hoe long are you going to harp on the Trinity doctrine. How mant times are yu going to argue the same scriptures, the same truths with posters like WJ? What fruits do you seek to accomplish with this? Both sides are equally wrong. Both sides seek to prove their point through Western ideologies and proof texts. God does not care what scripture you can quote. How many verbs you can comjure in Greek or how ,many proof texts you can write over and over and over. God is concerned about us becoming like Christ. What ever hinders that is wrong. Whatever helps that is right.No one on this board can claim to understand scripture unless they understand the Hebrew mindset, culture and original language. Without understanding these Hebrew concepts, you end up with intelectualized philosphy, derived from Western Cultures that are not at all like the Hebrew culture of the Bible.
You say I use function 13 times. The concept of prpose or function is simple common sense. Do you want me to become like many on this board that do not understand common sense? To continually post the same scriptures and derive the same fruit WHICH IS NONE
It is an unfortunate fact that most of Christianity believes that if you can just get a doctrine down intelectually you will have attained in that area. what utter nonsense.The first and most important fruit of understanding doctrine is experiantial. What do you experiance in the way of fruit in your character/life by following this doctrine. That is the essence of functionality. After a person experiances it then and ony then does he use his intelect to understand what he just experianced. Walking with Christ is about experiancial relationship not about intelectualised debate on head knowledge.
matian There is a wrong and there is a right. You can't be in between floating in the air. That does not work. You have to prove all things according to 1 Thess. 5:21. Ignorence does not get you anywhere.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 16 2007,09:40) martian You know what, you are to wise in your eyes for me. Only you are right and that I have heard so many times before on this website. Good luck you are going to need it. You don't know what each of us is like, but you act like you know it all. I depend on God not on men.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Opinions vary!!!Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 16 2007,09:44) Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,07:55) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,07:21) Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,04:16) The word “evil” has been thrown about with much abandon. I wonder if we all really understand the concept of Evil from a biblical perspective. The word “Good” (tov , Heb) would be better translated as functional. The opposite of this word is “ra”. these two words are used in the knowledge of good (tov) and evil (ra) In otherwords the knowledge of function and disfunction. God, His creation, His teachings, and His children should be functional. All teachings that prepose to help us, should function within God’s plan for His creation.
In this respect the English word evil in scripture does not carry the jaded coloring so often placed on it be our Western thought. God as the creator does not philosophize about His creation, He makes it functional. He allows us the choice to dwell in His functionality or to operate in dysfunction. It is the same with teaching about His nature. We can choose to understand Him from a functional standpoint. A stand that actually makes God’s plan work to accomplish something or we can choose to dwell in a mystical dysfunctional teaching that serves no purposeful end. In the same way we tend to translate someone who holds to a dysfunctional teaching as being “evil”. All of us have beliefs and promote teachings that are dysfunctional to some degree. Not one of us have all the truth in it’s entirety. While it is true that some dysfunctions are more damaging then others, they all hold us back from completing the perfecting process of God’s plan.
Hi Martian,
Using FUNCTION in various ways 13 times in one post when you have several threads going on the same thought gives the impression that you are determined that we believe you but really it probably has the opposite effect to harp on the same idea over and over again.
And just exactly how many threds discuss the Trinity. Hoe long are you going to harp on the Trinity doctrine. How mant times are yu going to argue the same scriptures, the same truths with posters like WJ? What fruits do you seek to accomplish with this? Both sides are equally wrong. Both sides seek to prove their point through Western ideologies and proof texts. God does not care what scripture you can quote. How many verbs you can comjure in Greek or how ,many proof texts you can write over and over and over. God is concerned about us becoming like Christ. What ever hinders that is wrong. Whatever helps that is right.No one on this board can claim to understand scripture unless they understand the Hebrew mindset, culture and original language. Without understanding these Hebrew concepts, you end up with intelectualized philosphy, derived from Western Cultures that are not at all like the Hebrew culture of the Bible.
You say I use function 13 times. The concept of prpose or function is simple common sense. Do you want me to become like many on this board that do not understand common sense? To continually post the same scriptures and derive the same fruit WHICH IS NONE
It is an unfortunate fact that most of Christianity believes that if you can just get a doctrine down intelectually you will have attained in that area. what utter nonsense.The first and most important fruit of understanding doctrine is experiantial. What do you experiance in the way of fruit in your character/life by following this doctrine. That is the essence of functionality. After a person experiances it then and ony then does he use his intelect to understand what he just experianced. Walking with Christ is about experiancial relationship not about intelectualised debate on head knowledge.
matian There is a wrong and there is a right. You can't be in between floating in the air. That does not work. You have to prove all things according to 1 Thess. 5:21. Ignorence does not get you anywhere.Peace and Love Mrs.
I will give your opinion all the attention it deserves.Quote (martian @ Dec. 17 2007,06:54) Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 16 2007,09:44) Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,07:55) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,07:21) Quote (martian @ Dec. 16 2007,04:16) The word “evil” has been thrown about with much abandon. I wonder if we all really understand the concept of Evil from a biblical perspective. The word “Good” (tov , Heb) would be better translated as functional. The opposite of this word is “ra”. these two words are used in the knowledge of good (tov) and evil (ra) In otherwords the knowledge of function and disfunction. God, His creation, His teachings, and His children should be functional. All teachings that prepose to help us, should function within God’s plan for His creation.
In this respect the English word evil in scripture does not carry the jaded coloring so often placed on it be our Western thought. God as the creator does not philosophize about His creation, He makes it functional. He allows us the choice to dwell in His functionality or to operate in dysfunction. It is the same with teaching about His nature. We can choose to understand Him from a functional standpoint. A stand that actually makes God’s plan work to accomplish something or we can choose to dwell in a mystical dysfunctional teaching that serves no purposeful end. In the same way we tend to translate someone who holds to a dysfunctional teaching as being “evil”. All of us have beliefs and promote teachings that are dysfunctional to some degree. Not one of us have all the truth in it’s entirety. While it is true that some dysfunctions are more damaging then others, they all hold us back from completing the perfecting process of God’s plan.
Hi Martian,
Using FUNCTION in various ways 13 times in one post when you have several threads going on the same thought gives the impression that you are determined that we believe you but really it probably has the opposite effect to harp on the same idea over and over again.
And just exactly how many threds discuss the Trinity. Hoe long are you going to harp on the Trinity doctrine. How mant times are yu going to argue the same scriptures, the same truths with posters like WJ? What fruits do you seek to accomplish with this? Both sides are equally wrong. Both sides seek to prove their point through Western ideologies and proof texts. God does not care what scripture you can quote. How many verbs you can comjure in Greek or how ,many proof texts you can write over and over and over. God is concerned about us becoming like Christ. What ever hinders that is wrong. Whatever helps that is right.No one on this board can claim to understand scripture unless they understand the Hebrew mindset, culture and original language. Without understanding these Hebrew concepts, you end up with intelectualized philosphy, derived from Western Cultures that are not at all like the Hebrew culture of the Bible.
You say I use function 13 times. The concept of prpose or function is simple common sense. Do you want me to become like many on this board that do not understand common sense? To continually post the same scriptures and derive the same fruit WHICH IS NONE
It is an unfortunate fact that most of Christianity believes that if you can just get a doctrine down intelectually you will have attained in that area. what utter nonsense.The first and most important fruit of understanding doctrine is experiantial. What do you experiance in the way of fruit in your character/life by following this doctrine. That is the essence of functionality. After a person experiances it then and ony then does he use his intelect to understand what he just experianced. Walking with Christ is about experiancial relationship not about intelectualised debate on head knowledge.
matian There is a wrong and there is a right. You can't be in between floating in the air. That does not work. You have to prove all things according to 1 Thess. 5:21. Ignorence does not get you anywhere.Peace and Love Mrs.
I will give your opinion all the attention it deserves.
I don't know what you mean by that short respond but in any way you have to do what is right and I have to do what is right also. If I can prove it to myself I will belief it. Coming out of the Catholic Church has taught me a lot.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,08:34) Hi Martian,
I hope to establish the scriptural principle that doctrinal truth is found taught in scripture.
Those who teach beyond what is taught in scripture are on their own.
They have stepped from the safety of the words of Christ.
It is to him they will have to explain such an action.
Nick, can I be so bold as to point out that everything Jesus said and did was not included in Scripture, and that God is not bound by or limited to Scripture.Scripture is not God, it tells us about God.
Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me,
Can I be so bold as to say that Scriptures have a purpose, but the important thing is to have a life changing experiential relationship with our God, to know His voice and to feel His heart.
In the same way that Scripture was given to those that penned it, so also revelation is still given to God's people.
Interpretation:
Just because the Trinity is not mentioned or taught in scripture, doesn't make it not true.
Evolution isn't taught either Oxy.
The point is that the Trinity is the Roman Catholic faith. It is believed by many to be the foundation of the Christian faith.
And yet it isn't taught in scripture. The worst part is that certain people defend this doctrine even knowing this.
Some of these people are even aware of the deaths of some who opposed this doctrine. People were burnt at the stake for not accepting the Trinity doctrine. They were called heretics and they were murdered by a great persecutor.
The Trinity doctrine is the foundation of a system that is about hiding truth from people. Why does anyone want to be part of the system that protects this doctrine and has sinned greatly in doing so.
It is appropriate to come out of her.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 17 2007,10:38) Interpretation: Just because the Trinity is not mentioned or taught in scripture, doesn't make it not true.
Evolution isn't taught either Oxy.
The point is that the Trinity is the Roman Catholic faith. It is believed by many to be the foundation of the Christian faith.
And yet it isn't taught in scripture. The worst part is that certain people defend this doctrine even knowing this.
Some of these people are even aware of the deaths of some who opposed this doctrine. People were burnt at the stake for not accepting the Trinity doctrine. They were called heretics and they were murdered by a great persecutor.
The Trinity doctrine is the foundation of a system that is about hiding truth from people. Why does anyone want to be part of the system that protects this doctrine and has sinned greatly in doing so.
It is appropriate to come out of her.
Thanks t8.I think I have been redeemed by the wise and wonderful from being a trinitarian on this site lol. The concept of the trinity doctrine seems to be God consisting of 3 co-equal beings, which I do not subscribe to.
However, I will not deny the fact that Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as “Him” on many occasions and also “Whom”.
I trust Jesus.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 17 2007,11:04) Apologies. I thought you were an avid Trinitarian.
Must be mixing you up with someone else.
No probs t8.I think there is an element of confusion, because a discussion I've had a number of times on this site, especially with Nick, is that I believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, whereas some believe Him to be something else, I'm not sure what.
There seem to be two main thoughts that oppose mine. One is that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God ie one and the same, and the other is that the Holy Spirit is the power of God, and not an identity.
Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,10:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,08:34) Hi Martian,
I hope to establish the scriptural principle that doctrinal truth is found taught in scripture.
Those who teach beyond what is taught in scripture are on their own.
They have stepped from the safety of the words of Christ.
It is to him they will have to explain such an action.
Nick, can I be so bold as to point out that everything Jesus said and did was not included in Scripture, and that God is not bound by or limited to Scripture.Scripture is not God, it tells us about God.
Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me,
Can I be so bold as to say that Scriptures have a purpose, but the important thing is to have a life changing experiential relationship with our God, to know His voice and to feel His heart.
In the same way that Scripture was given to those that penned it, so also revelation is still given to God's people.
Although it is a bit off what I was saying, I could not agree more. We have relationship with Jesus in person and not a book about JesusQuote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,10:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,08:34) Hi Martian,
I hope to establish the scriptural principle that doctrinal truth is found taught in scripture.
Those who teach beyond what is taught in scripture are on their own.
They have stepped from the safety of the words of Christ.
It is to him they will have to explain such an action.
Nick, can I be so bold as to point out that everything Jesus said and did was not included in Scripture, and that God is not bound by or limited to Scripture.Scripture is not God, it tells us about God.
Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me,
Can I be so bold as to say that Scriptures have a purpose, but the important thing is to have a life changing experiential relationship with our God, to know His voice and to feel His heart.
In the same way that Scripture was given to those that penned it, so also revelation is still given to God's people.
Hi Oxy,
Are you suggesting that your insights about the Spirit of God being a person separate from God are part of the teachings of Jesus that were not recorded?
hmmmQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2007,11:43) Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 17 2007,10:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2007,08:34) Hi Martian,
I hope to establish the scriptural principle that doctrinal truth is found taught in scripture.
Those who teach beyond what is taught in scripture are on their own.
They have stepped from the safety of the words of Christ.
It is to him they will have to explain such an action.
Nick, can I be so bold as to point out that everything Jesus said and did was not included in Scripture, and that God is not bound by or limited to Scripture.Scripture is not God, it tells us about God.
Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me,
Can I be so bold as to say that Scriptures have a purpose, but the important thing is to have a life changing experiential relationship with our God, to know His voice and to feel His heart.
In the same way that Scripture was given to those that penned it, so also revelation is still given to God's people.
Hi Oxy,
Are you suggesting that your insights about the Spirit of God being a person separate from God are part of the teachings of Jesus that were not recorded?
hmmm
Once again you misquote me Nick. Seems you're good at that.God is One, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Not co-equal.
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