The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,06:08)

Hi MS,
Was Christ changed by his anointing with the Spirit and power of God?

I believe he was changed by having the Father dwell within him through the holy spirit. Jesus was the firstborn YHWH wrapped in flesh as a mortal, but then received anointing and power from on high.

No longer was he a God who was just as mortal as the rest of us because of humbling himself to be just like us. He was JUST LIKE US for the 30 or so years of his life when he did not sin. The divine spark filled him with the Glory of God that he ONCE shared with him before all things. Thus began his ministry.

We can have that and share that as well as Christ.

Many say that it wouldn't be “fair” if Christ was God and did not sin since we are not God and don't have that advantage. Well he was just like us except for the knowledge he had of his purpose. Then he was REFILLED by the baptism of the holy spirit.

Which is the same promise we have of the holy spirit.

December 1, 2007 at 7:44 pm#73628

Participant

Hi MS,
So the anointing to you was a giving back of the power and glory he once had?
Do you have any evidence he had this anointing before?
He had glory before but was it the glory of God?

December 1, 2007 at 7:53 pm#73631

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,06:44)

Hi MS,
So the anointing to you was a giving back of the power and glory he once had?
Do you have any evidence he had this anointing before?
He had glory before but was it the glory of God?

Well the fact that he was the God of Israel for me pretty much tells me that he at least was anointed to that position prior to his incarnation.

However, I am not trying to compare that to his anointing as Messiah.

2 things happened there in my opinion, however, I am not dogmatic on this.

1) Anointed as Messiah (being made CHRIST)

2) Power and Glory (being made LORD once again, with all nations subject to him not just Israel)

Acts 2

36″Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

December 1, 2007 at 7:54 pm#73632

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2007,14:05)

Hi WJ,
You say
“Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him. The Father never left Yeshua neither did Yeshua exit or cease to be in the Father.”

WAS or IS?

You have been well missed.

Of course “IS” and “WAS”!!!!

You like being contentious dont you?

December 1, 2007 at 8:05 pm#73633

Participant

Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 01 2007,14:24)

WJ. You quote from Ephesian but you don't see what it says in Ephesian 4:4-6. Since the trinity Doctrine says that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is equal with each other, those scriptures would contradict what the trinity doctrine is all about. The Father is greater then I and many other. No W.J. with that you have no leg to stand on, no matter how hard you try here.
As far as Bible History is concerned I did not get that out of my mind about Tertuillian. It is History. Just look it up. The first Christians were not even aloud to openly worship and nobody discussed about the trinity. It was not until Constantine came on the scene, and everything changed. From Sabbath into Sunday, all the Holy Days like X-mas and Easter were instituted. All Babylonian Holy Days.
So sad.
Peace and Love Mrs.

Mrs

Why is this so hard to understand?

The president of the United States is greater than all the citizens of the US, but is he more “Human” than the rest?

The Father and Son and the Holy Spirit are of the same nature, exactly. Heb 1:2 You still didnt answer my question, you just shoot off on something else.

Again, I am not a Catholic. You must be afraid of them or something. You keep bringing them up.

Since the Catholics were so powerful to “Change” Gods law, (That is funny), then maybe you should not practice any thing they believe like the death, and burial, and the ressurrection of Yeshua.

Tell you what, do you believe the “Spirit of God is God?” Is Gods Spirit less God than he is? If you think so, can you give me a scripture?

December 1, 2007 at 8:10 pm#73634

Participant

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 02 2007,06:53)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,06:44)

Hi MS,
So the anointing to you was a giving back of the power and glory he once had?
Do you have any evidence he had this anointing before?
He had glory before but was it the glory of God?

Well the fact that he was the God of Israel for me pretty much tells me that he at least was anointed to that position prior to his incarnation.

However, I am not trying to compare that to his anointing as Messiah.

2 things happened there in my opinion, however, I am not dogmatic on this.

1) Anointed as Messiah (being made CHRIST)

2) Power and Glory (being made LORD once again, with all nations subject to him not just Israel)

Acts 2

36″Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Hi MS,
Jesus was GOD of Israel??

He was appointed LORD by God.

December 1, 2007 at 8:12 pm#73635

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,06:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2007,14:05)

Hi WJ,
You say
“Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him. The Father never left Yeshua neither did Yeshua exit or cease to be in the Father.”

WAS or IS?

You have been well missed.

Of course “IS” and “WAS”!!!!

You like being contentious dont you?

Hi WJ,
You must be accurate in presenting scripture lest you mislead.
And it shows you truly respect the Word of God and are not just using it.
So did Jesus say WAS in the context you show?

December 1, 2007 at 8:16 pm#73636

Participant

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 01 2007,12:33)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2007,11:13)

Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 01 2007,08:31)

W.J. Poor you. 3 people to have to answer to. Good luck you are going to need it. The trinity is not bibical. You can't explain it. It is a mystery according to the Cath. Church. 915 pages and still going strong, Oh, boy, oh boy that is all I can say.
Epuesians 4:4-6 explains it all, why in the world do you want to hang unto something that first of all you can not prove and second of all, it was invented by a man named
QUINTUS SEPTIMUS FLORENS TERTULLIAN.
Why don't you look Him up on google.

Peace and Love Mrs.

Poor Me!!!

I am not a Catholic and never was and never will be.

I also dont follow “Tertullian”, I have spent 33 years of my life serving Yeshua and not a man. My scriptural knowledge comes from the scriptures by the Holy Spirit.

But of course you will claim the same.

As far as “Tertullian” being the “inventor” of the “Trinity”, are you sure of that?

Did you learn that form the WWC?

Many church Fathers called Jesus God before “Tertullians” existence.

For instance…

Ignatius
Ignatius died in 110 AD. He was a disciple of the Apostle John and was the bishop of Antioch. He was martyred in Rome only 10 years after John died. Ignatius is as close to the source as you can get. He had several interesting quotes concerning the Trinity doctrine:

“Be deaf, therefore, when any would speak to you apart from Jesus Christ, who was descended from the family of David, born of Mary, who truly was born, truly took a body; for the Word became flesh and dwelt among us without sin”

Ignatius also wrote about Jesus’ second coming:

“Look for him that is above the times, him who has not times, him who is invisible”.

He believed that only God is was timeless and in his letter to Polycarp, Ignatius stated, “Jesus is God, God incarnate.”

Ignatius also identified Jesus apart from the Father and the Holy Spirit by saying,

“In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever”.

He also believed Jesus was fully God and fully man. He clarified this by saying,

“We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.” ( The ante-nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, Vol. 1, p. 52 .)

He clarifies this further in one of his epistles to the church in Ephesus:

“…God Himself appearing in the form of a man, for the renewal of eternal life.”( Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians 4:13)

Also in this epistle, Ignatius again identifies Jesus as God while identifying His personhood:

“For our God Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost.” ( Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians 4:9)

In his letter to the Trallians, Ignatius refers to Jesus as God and being distinguished from the Father:

( Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians 2:4)
“For even our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is in the Father”.

These writings are over 200 years before the Council of Nicaea. He wrote during and very shortly after the life of the Apostle John who was called the beloved of Jesus.

You should really study your Church History.

Blessings!.

Because Jesus is YHWH the son of El.

The trinity isn't true, but Jesus is God!

Christians just can't admit that God has a God.

Deuteronomy 32

8When the Most High (El Elyon) gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God (El).
9But the LORD’s (YHWH) portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.

YHWH the God who is the son of the most high inherited Israel from his Father the MOST HIGH GOD.

Hebrews 1

8But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

The other sons of God (Jesus's Companions) were unfaithful and sentenced to die.

Psalm 82

Verses 1-5 God delivers his case against his disobedient sons who are not rightly ruling their allotted nations.

1 God presides over heaven’s court;
he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:
2 “How long will you hand down unjust decisions
by favoring the wicked?
3 “Give justice to the poor and the orphan;
uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.
4 Rescue the poor and helpless;
deliver them from the grasp of evil people.
5 But these oppressors know nothing;
they are so ignorant!
They wander about in darkness,
while the whole world is shaken to the core.

Verse 6 God calls the angels / sons of God / Elohim gods!

6 I say, ‘You are gods;
you are all children of the Most High.

Verse 7 the sons of God are sentenced to death. Reminds me of Matthew 25:41
41″Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

7 But you will die like mere mortals
and fall like every other ruler.’”

In verse 8 the only good Son, the only good shepherd, Jesus, who loved righteousness and was raised to a higher position than his companions, is instructed to rise up and inherit all the nations.

8 Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,
for all the nations belong to you.
Comparison of John 10 and Psalm 82:

Jesus reply in Jn 10 makes far more sense if he is referring to
divine beings, because he is making the claim that he himself is divine. If he was merely referring to human judges, then he is simply calling himself a man. I don't think this is what the Gospel
is trying to say. On the contrary, it is making the claim that Jesus is God.

Then what purpose does it serve to say that the “gods” (presuming they are men here) would die like mere men if they were always going to die as mere men? If it was always going to be the case, then why say “like mere men”?

No, in the case of Ps 82, the gods of the divine council are condemned to die like mere men because they fail to govern the earth properly. No one expects the gods to die as mere men, so their condemnation to die as mere men is quite telling. This Psalms calls for an end to henotheism with its national deities each ruling a particular domain, and calls for a new monotheism in which a single deity governs the entire earth. Notice that the scope isn't simply national Israel, but universal. The gods of the nations — not the judges of Israel — have failed to govern the world. Therefore God must needs sack this cabinet and assume autocratic control himself.

He gives all authority to the one son (son of God / Elohim) that is righteous and hated wickedness. Jesus!

I love all of you in Christ. But, it saddens me greatly that the higher critics and athiests understand scripture more than believers. They don't believe what the scriptures say, but they understand what they are saying.

Most of this boils down to the Myth of Montheism as it is understood by the modern world.

YES, there is only ONE eternal immortal God, The Father. That is biblical monotheism.

However, this ONE God decided to govern earth through his sons. This is henotheism.

It is not an either / or situation here it is both.

I assumed our dialogues were continuious, linear and inclusive. Just a couple pages back I posted this.

Yes I believe Israel had TWO Powers in heaven as deity.

EL and his appointed Son YHWH.

December 1, 2007 at 8:16 pm#73637

Participant

Quote (Searching @ Dec. 02 2007,01:14)

Ummm , so I'm completely new to this but you guys seem to really know your scripture.

So I was wondering if you could perhaps answer my question

People often say that the Trinity is false because Jesus is in subjection to God and therefore not equal to God and therefore debunk the whole Trinity Doctrine

As the doctrine states that Jesus and God are co-equal.

I was wondering, what if like Man and Woman
Jesus and God are the same

Allow me to explain a bit, 1 Corinthians 11:3 says “Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”- NIV

A woman is in subjection to a man, but is she not equal to a man?

We are all people right? So children are equal to their parents but in subjection to them.

So could it not be that Jesus is in Subjection to the Father but still equal to him?

I do not feel like revealing whether I am a Trinitarian or not, I simply wanted to pose a question.

How would a non-Trinitarian respond to this?

Jesus is in subjection to God but is equal to God
just as Woman is in subjection to Man but equal because she is a human being.

Searching

Excellent points.

Your question is a valid one.

And your interpretation of the text you use is the correct one. 1 Cor 11:3 is not addressing the ontology of the woman and the man or of God and Christ. It is addressing the order of things.

The reason people cant see this truth is they cannot see “plurality in oneness”. They have closed their eyes to seeing this concept in all of the Universe at work.

When Yeshua said f you have seen me you have seen the Father (God), he is saying I am everything the Father is in visible form. Phil 2:6-8

He is the “Express Image of God”, God manifest in the flesh.

December 1, 2007 at 8:19 pm#73638

Participant

Hi MS,
Does your belief have any support?
Where is Jesus shown as the God of Israel?

December 1, 2007 at 8:21 pm#73639

Participant

Hi WJ,
God indeed manifested in the vessel of Christ.
But that did not make the vessel somehow also the contents of that vessel.

December 1, 2007 at 8:21 pm#73640

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,06:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2007,14:05)

Hi WJ,
You say
“Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him. The Father never left Yeshua neither did Yeshua exit or cease to be in the Father.”

WAS or IS?

You have been well missed.

Of course “IS” and “WAS”!!!!

You like being contentious dont you?

Hi WJ,
You must be accurate in presenting scripture lest you mislead.
And it shows you truly respect the Word of God and are not just using it.
So did Jesus say WAS in the context you show?

OK.

Jn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So are you saying Jesus was not the Son of God when John penned that scripture?

Dont get your point.

Jesus Christ the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever!!!

December 1, 2007 at 8:22 pm#73641

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:19)

Hi MS,
Does your belief have any support?
Where is Jesus shown as the God of Israel?

I could try and post as much evidence as I can, however, the evidence I do post usually doesn't even garnish a rebuttal or counter explanation.

I have provided on this very page verses in support of my beliefs. Address those, at least, for a start.

December 1, 2007 at 8:24 pm#73642

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:21)

Hi WJ,
God indeed manifested in the vessel of Christ.
But that did not make the vessel somehow also the contents of that vessel.

Reminds me of the Old days. When we traveled around those mountains.

December 1, 2007 at 8:31 pm#73643

Participant

Morning

You say…

Quote

At the end of this age, The Father will actually dwell with us. He will be our God and we his Sons. Just like Christ. WE WILL BE EQUAL TO CHRIST. BROTHERS!!! The Father will dwell with his family.

So will we be the “THE image of the invisible God” And the “Express image of his person/Substance, essence?

So we will be all that God is? There will be many Gods like Jesus?

December 1, 2007 at 8:32 pm#73644

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,07:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,06:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2007,14:05)

Hi WJ,
You say
“Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him. The Father never left Yeshua neither did Yeshua exit or cease to be in the Father.”

WAS or IS?

You have been well missed.

Of course “IS” and “WAS”!!!!

You like being contentious dont you?

Hi WJ,
You must be accurate in presenting scripture lest you mislead.
And it shows you truly respect the Word of God and are not just using it.
So did Jesus say WAS in the context you show?

OK.

Jn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So are you saying Jesus was not the Son of God when John penned that scripture?

Dont get your point.

Jesus Christ the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever!!!

Hi WJ,
Let me help you.
This is what you were quoting.

Jn 14
” 9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

10″Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

11″Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. “

You said WAS in suggesting that the SON was not a true SON of GOD but rather ever an aspect of God.

Then you quote a verse that says he is the SON of GOD-something you clearly do not believe.

December 1, 2007 at 8:55 pm#73648

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,07:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,06:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2007,14:05)

Hi WJ,
You say
“Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him. The Father never left Yeshua neither did Yeshua exit or cease to be in the Father.”

WAS or IS?

You have been well missed.

Of course “IS” and “WAS”!!!!

You like being contentious dont you?

Hi WJ,
You must be accurate in presenting scripture lest you mislead.
And it shows you truly respect the Word of God and are not just using it.
So did Jesus say WAS in the context you show?

OK.

Jn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So are you saying Jesus was not the Son of God when John penned that scripture?

Dont get your point.

Jesus Christ the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever!!!

Hi WJ,
Let me help you.
This is what you were quoting.

Jn 14
” 9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

10″Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

11″Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. “

You said WAS in suggesting that the SON was not a true SON of GOD but rather ever an aspect of God.

Then you quote a verse that says he is the SON of GOD-something you clearly do not believe.

Do what? Confusion.

Where do you see in my comments I dont believe in the “Son of God”?

Please dont tell me you are gonna start misrepresenting people again? For you know full well I believe Yeshua is the “Monogenes” Unique Son of God!

So you dont believe that Yeshua “Was in the Father” before the foundation of the world?

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God! Jn 1:1

Is John saying he is not still the Word?

December 1, 2007 at 9:28 pm#73650

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,07:31)

Morning

You say…

Quote

At the end of this age, The Father will actually dwell with us. He will be our God and we his Sons. Just like Christ. WE WILL BE EQUAL TO CHRIST. BROTHERS!!! The Father will dwell with his family.

So will we be the “THE image of the invisible God” And the “Express image of his person/Substance, essence?

So we will be all that God is? There will be many Gods like Jesus?

Yes! This is the biggest crime of the trinity doctrine.

Limiting the Godhead to 3 persons. When we are to become “Like Christ” sons of God.

Believers become Sons of God at salvation

Galatians 3:26
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

1 John 3:2
2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

When Christ Returns we will be like him Sons of God becoming Morning Stars / Angelic beings

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Corinthians 15:52

52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Romans 8:19
19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.

2 Peter 1:19

19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts

Revelation 2:26-28

26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give him the morning star.

Matthew 22:30

30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

We will rule and reign with Christ as Elohim over the nations as in the beginning when the nations where watched over by Elohim.

1 Corinthians 6:3

3Do you not know that we will judge angels? (The principalities and powers of this present darkness that are dethroned and we usurp their power)

2 Timothy 4:7

7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Revelation 20:6

6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Zechariah 12:8

On that day the LORD (YHWH) will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God (Elohim plural gods), like the Angel of the LORD going before them.

John 17

21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me

THIS IS NOT NEW AGE STUFF THIS IS BASIC BIBLE!!!! Taught from the beginning!!!!

Some early Christian comments on the saints becoming Elohim.

Clement who said:

But it reaches its climax after the death of the body, when the soul is allowed to fly back to its original place, where after becoming a god, it can enjoy, in a complete and perpetual rest, the contemplation of the highest divinity 'face to face', together with the other [theoi] (S. R. C. Lilla Clement of Alexandria A Study In Christian Platonism and Gnosticism, Oxford, 1971, p. 142).

Irenaeus who said:
There is none other called God by the scriptures except the Father of all and the Son, and those who possess the adoption (Early Arianism – A View of Salvation, Fortress Press, Philadelphia, 1981, p. 68).

Irenaeus (c. 125-203) wrote on the question of the extension of the term elohim (or theoi in the Greek) to mankind. Irenaeus is important because he was taught by Polycarp, the disciple of John. Thus, we can be fairly certain that Irenaeus’ understanding (short of forgery) approximated that of the early Church. In his work Against Heresies he expounded the concept that the elect would exist as elohim.

Also, check out these passages I have looked over:

Notice how it is hidden in translations what we are to become?

John 3 (most translations)

3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

See here this same verse when interpreted literally.

John 3 Young’s Literal Translation

3Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

Yes, being begotten from the Father!!!!

Hebrews 2:11 states that He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all one origin

Hebrews 2:11

11 So now Jesus and the ones he makes holy have the same Father. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them his brothers and sisters.

1 John 3:2

2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

December 1, 2007 at 9:34 pm#73652

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,07:55)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,07:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2007,07:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 02 2007,06:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2007,14:05)

Hi WJ,
You say
“Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him. The Father never left Yeshua neither did Yeshua exit or cease to be in the Father.”

WAS or IS?

You have been well missed.

Of course “IS” and “WAS”!!!!

You like being contentious dont you?

Hi WJ,
You must be accurate in presenting scripture lest you mislead.
And it shows you truly respect the Word of God and are not just using it.
So did Jesus say WAS in the context you show?

OK.

Jn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So are you saying Jesus was not the Son of God when John penned that scripture?

Dont get your point.

Jesus Christ the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever!!!

Hi WJ,
Let me help you.
This is what you were quoting.

Jn 14
” 9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

10″Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

11″Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. “

You said WAS in suggesting that the SON was not a true SON of GOD but rather ever an aspect of God.

Then you quote a verse that says he is the SON of GOD-something you clearly do not believe.

Do what? Confusion.

Where do you see in my comments I dont believe in the “Son of God”?

Please dont tell me you are gonna start misrepresenting people again? For you know full well I believe Yeshua is the “Monogenes” Unique Son of God!

So you dont believe that Yeshua “Was in the Father” before the foundation of the world?

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God! Jn 1:1

Is John saying he is not still the Word?

Hi WJ,
Your idea of the Son of God is of a son who has never become a son but remains ever an aspect of his father.

Yet that makes him as a son
his own father and
his own son!

How can this fit with Eph 3.14?

December 1, 2007 at 9:48 pm#73653