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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2007,04:16) Hi,
Personally I think rejecting scriptural teaching in favour of human wisdom as the basis of our understanding of truth is most unwise. But it remains very popular and many feel happier in a crowd.
Nick That is most unfortunate is'nt. But you said it people feel save in a crowd evern if it is wrong, how sad. I rather go with the truth and I know what I belief and have been now for 23 years. God has ben good to us, and I for one will stand forevermore on that rock of our Salvation. No matter how many friends I loose in the proccess. And belief me I have lost friends because of it. That is just a fact of life if you want to follow Jesus. The trinity Doctrine has been a a false doctrine for so long that people do not even realize what is going on. So sad. But one day it will all be over with and the truth will cover the earth like sand covers the sea. For that day I can't wait for and wish Jesus would hurry up and get here. If God wills. Waiting on God is so hard to do.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 27 2007,20:43) Hi ,
It is possible to develop a construct of God as triune.
But only by abandoning scriptural teaching as the basis of such knowledge.
NHHavnt you realized you are triune?
Hey WJ, lets see if one part of you can be in say USA and the other part in New Zealand and make the part in New Zealand talk to the part in the USA.
You are one being and one person.
Same with God. He is a being, he is a personality.You are not 3 persons in one being are you.
Think about it.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 28 2007,10:29) Hey WJ, lets see if one part of you can be in say USA and the other part in New Zealand and make the part in New Zealand talk to the part in the USA. You are one being and one person.
Same with God. He is a being, he is a personality.You are not 3 persons in one being are you.
Think about it.
NoBut there are similaritys.
Ps 103:1
Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.Lk 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.Eph 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.Havnt you ever heard your Spirit man talk to you?
Or your flesh dictating the things of the flesh?
The comment that NH made was about God being triune.
Can you give me one example of the Father or Yeshua or the Spirit acting apart from the other two?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 28 2007,10:29) Hey WJ, lets see if one part of you can be in say USA and the other part in New Zealand and make the part in New Zealand talk to the part in the USA. You are one being and one person.
Same with God. He is a being, he is a personality.You are not 3 persons in one being are you.
Think about it.
t8Well. Then again. I am a part of the Body of Christ.
So if I have brothers and sisters in NZ then part of me is there is it not?
And the Body of Christ is many members all having personalitys.
Also I am “One flesh” with my wife yet we are 2.
Think about it.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 28 2007,10:29) Hey WJ, lets see if one part of you can be in say USA and the other part in New Zealand and make the part in New Zealand talk to the part in the USA. You are one being and one person.
Same with God. He is a being, he is a personality.You are not 3 persons in one being are you.
Think about it.
t8The thing is, you cant get away from the “Plurality of onenes” found in all of the creation.
If I asked you if you can give me one thing that is not plural, you would probably say God.
However even the word “Elohiym” is plural. Thats what the “iym” means on the end of the word “Eloah”.
Hi WJ,
So if I am multipartite God must be too even though the bible does not say so?
Is that how we work things out about God?
I thought we believe what the bible teaches?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 28 2007,11:43) Hi WJ,
So if I am multipartite God must be too even though the bible does not say so?
Is that how we work things out about God?
I thought we believe what the bible teaches?
NHIm not sure you are reading the same Bible I am.
Hi WJ,
Does your bible teach a trinity God?
If not then surely you should discard the doctrine
or your bible?WorshippingJesus wrote:
Quote Can you give me one example of the Father or Yeshua or the Spirit acting apart from the other two? I'll give you one. Is1:18 has not clarified this trinitarian conundrum, so maybe you can.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Nov. 08 2007,21:12) Is 1:18 wrote: Quote Wow 900 pages and counting. Not many threads around this long. That's quite a milestone for Heaven.Net. WIT, I'll clarify. The separation that I spoke of was a disengagement in the intimate communion shared by the Father and Son. The Son was our sin offering, at the time of His suffering and death He became sin (2 Cor 5:21), a curse (Gal 3:13). “he bore our griefs and carried our sorrows; that he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities; that the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him; that by his stripes we are healed.” (Isa 53:4-5)
Hab 1:13 declares that God cannot look upon sin, therefore I've inferred that for the first and only time in Yeshua's existence there was a severing of their unique relationship. The Father looked away. This, of course, has nothing to do with WHAT Yeshua was and is (i.e His nature). Word was God….Word became flesh.
Clear?
Clear? Not quite. Let me put it to you this way:
During this “separation”, were they, Father and Son, still One Being? If so, how were they “separated”?
By the way, I presume that your definition of the Trinity isn't simply that there are three people who share the same nature, because that is not terribly monotheistic. You and I share the same nature, but that certainly doesn't make us “one”. I presume that you define God as One Being who just happens to
have three headsbe three people.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 28 2007,11:05) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 28 2007,10:29) Hey WJ, lets see if one part of you can be in say USA and the other part in New Zealand and make the part in New Zealand talk to the part in the USA. You are one being and one person.
Same with God. He is a being, he is a personality.You are not 3 persons in one being are you.
Think about it.
t8Well. Then again. I am a part of the Body of Christ.
So if I have brothers and sisters in NZ then part of me is there is it not?
And the Body of Christ is many members all having personalitys.
Also I am “One flesh” with my wife yet we are 2.
Think about it.
The Body of Christ isn't one being. But an organisation of beings.God isn't an organisation of beings. He is one God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 28 2007,10:20) NH Havnt you realized you are triune?
Luke 10:27
He answered: ” 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' “Matthew 22:37
Jesus replied: ” 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'- heart
- soul
- mind
- body
I count 4. So who is the 4th member of this Godhead?
Quote (Samuel @ Nov. 17 2007,20:12) Are you going to pray to Peter? Is he your Rock? What happened to Peter when he went forth to Jesus on the Water…and he took His eyes off the ROCK…the True ROCK?
He started sinking…and cried out JESUS SAVE ME!
And Jesus did save him.
You do not have to believe…sir. You have your own free will. But that which is the truth is written. I am a living testament of it. And, its my job and duty as a Christian to be a witness…no I'm not a preacher…or a pastor…or a Bible Scholar. I am just a humble servant of Christ. That speaks what the spirit tells me to speak. These things that I tell you I can assure you they are the truth…the spirit tells me so.
I have done my job. Your blood will not be on my hands sir.
No! You don't pray to Peter. You ask Peter to ask Jesus to ask the Father who sends the third guy down.
But since the Pope is Peter then you can ask the father in the robe who will send a message to the bishop who in turn send the message to a cardinal who will then give it to the Pope who IS Jesus on earth.SEE!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 28 2007,11:00) Havnt you ever heard your Spirit man talk to you? Or your flesh dictating the things of the flesh?
The comment that NH made was about God being triune.
Can you give me one example of the Father or Yeshua or the Spirit acting apart from the other two?
Different persons working together is not proof that they are the same being WJ.Even a husband and wife are not one being. They have the same nature and they are one, but not one being. They are still 2 beings.
As for your last question, I don't need to answer it as it is irrelevant. Working together is not proof that there is one being.
Your comment regarding the Spirit man talking is really just the God's Spirit communicating with your spirit. That is how God communicates to redeemed men.
Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.In addition to that, if you are referring to God being 3 because we have a body, soul, spirit, then you are describing a God that the Oneness doctrine teaches.
If you have a body, soul, spirit, and yet remain a person, then how is it that the God you teach is 3 persons? It is actually Oneness doctrine that teaches that they are one person.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2007,11:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 28 2007,11:00) Havnt you ever heard your Spirit man talk to you? Or your flesh dictating the things of the flesh?
The comment that NH made was about God being triune.
Can you give me one example of the Father or Yeshua or the Spirit acting apart from the other two?
Different persons working together is not proof that they are the same being WJ.Even a husband and wife are not one being. They have the same nature and they are one, but not one being. They are still 2 beings.
As for your last question, I don't need to answer it as it is irrelevant. Working together is not proof that there is one being.
Your comment regarding the Spirit man talking is really just the God's Spirit communicating with your spirit. That is how God communicates to redeemed men.
Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.In addition to that, if you are referring to God being 3 because we have a body, soul, spirit, then you are describing a God that the Oneness doctrine teaches.
If you have a body, soul, spirit, and yet remain a person, then how is it that the God you teach is 3 persons? It is actually Oneness doctrine that teaches that they are one person.
t8Dont get excited. I said there are similarities.
Again the creation reveals the Glory of God. All the building blocks of creation is plural.
Plurality of Oneness. Nothing can be named that is not plural.
You said…
Quote
The Body of Christ isn't one being. But an organisation of beings.That sounds like a denomination.
The Body of Christ isn't an “organisation of beings”. He is “one New man”.
Or how many “Brides” is Christ gonna marry?
Many, yet there is “One”.
Paul says the Body of Christ is a Mystery. Why?
Because it is a living “organism”, a “Spiritual house”, “One Body”, made up of many members, all having their place, Christ being the head because of his Humanity.
So even in these things we see there is “Plurality of Oneness”.
There is even 7 Spirits, yet one Spirit.
Again, “Eloyim” is a plural word.
You cant answer my question because there is no disparity of nature between the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost for they are One.
Before you go off about us being one with them, therefore are we gods?
We are not and never will be the “Express image of his substance, person or essence”.
Neither shall we ever be “gods”.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Nov. 29 2007,02:50) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote Can you give me one example of the Father or Yeshua or the Spirit acting apart from the other two? I'll give you one. Is1:18 has not clarified this trinitarian conundrum, so maybe you can.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Nov. 08 2007,21:12) Is 1:18 wrote: Quote Wow 900 pages and counting. Not many threads around this long. That's quite a milestone for Heaven.Net. WIT, I'll clarify. The separation that I spoke of was a disengagement in the intimate communion shared by the Father and Son. The Son was our sin offering, at the time of His suffering and death He became sin (2 Cor 5:21), a curse (Gal 3:13). “he bore our griefs and carried our sorrows; that he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities; that the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him; that by his stripes we are healed.” (Isa 53:4-5)
Hab 1:13 declares that God cannot look upon sin, therefore I've inferred that for the first and only time in Yeshua's existence there was a severing of their unique relationship. The Father looked away. This, of course, has nothing to do with WHAT Yeshua was and is (i.e His nature). Word was God….Word became flesh.
Clear?
Clear? Not quite. Let me put it to you this way:
During this “separation”, were they, Father and Son, still One Being? If so, how were they “separated”?
By the way, I presume that your definition of the Trinity isn't simply that there are three people who share the same nature, because that is not terribly monotheistic. You and I share the same nature, but that certainly doesn't make us “one”. I presume that you define God as One Being who just happens to
have three headsbe three people.
MrsNot sure what you mean. I thought Isa 1:18 clarified his position well.
As you say…Peace and Love.
Hi WJ,
You said
“Can you give me one example of the Father or Yeshua or the Spirit acting apart from the other two?”
Do you still not realise the Spirit of God is the spirit of God?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2007,18:54) Or how many “Brides” is Christ gonna marry? Many, yet there is “One”.
Paul says the Body of Christ is a Mystery. Why?
Because it is a living “organism”, a “Spiritual house”, “One Body”, made up of many members, all having their place, Christ being the head because of his Humanity.
Jesus who is one person, is marrying the bride, who is the Church.We are not marrying God or 3, but one who is Jesus.
Do you honestly think that millions or billions of redeemed men would be a suitable bride for God? If so, then you underestimate just how much greater God is than us.
No we are the bride to the son of God. It is he who calls us brothers. It is he who can only do that which he sees God doing.
God is his Father and our Father. The Father isn't the bridegroom.
Rather our head is Christ and Christ's head is God.WJ,
First, I am not MRS IM4Truth!
Second, Is1:18 did not answer the question that I asked. I am asking if you can. Here it is again:
During this “separation”, were they, Father and Son, still One Being? If so, how were they “separated”?
One further clarification as well, (if you presume that Is1:18 sufficiently answered the previous question):
How can One Being “[disengage] the intimate communion” within itself? Can your foot cease to have communion with the rest of your body without being amputated?
Look forward to you actually responding to the questions I have posed!
W.J. Poor you. 3 people to have to answer to. Good luck you are going to need it. The trinity is not bibical. You can't explain it. It is a mystery according to the Cath. Church. 915 pages and still going strong, Oh, boy, oh boy that is all I can say.
Epuesians 4:4-6 explains it all, why in the world do you want to hang unto something that first of all you can not prove and second of all, it was invented by a man named
QUINTUS SEPTIMUS FLORENS TERTULLIAN.
Why don't you look Him up on google.Peace and Love Mrs.
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