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Quote (t8 @ Nov. 11 2007,20:30) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 12 2007,02:15) Note how the gospels particularly John, where Roman friendly while condemning the Jews. That is because if the gospels had been condemning of the Romans as well they would have never survived. Yet another lie in the name of self preservation.
Where does John condemn the Jews?If you are referring to the Jews saying “crucify him”, then perhaps recording something that actually happened is about condemning but giving an actual account.
Even then, how is that condemning if he wasn't the messiah as you say?
Look up the phrase 'the Jews' in your bible. It is found 64 times in John alone and 99% of the time it a negative title.Quote (t8 @ Nov. 11 2007,20:47) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 12 2007,02:15) Was Jesus a liar? Likely he wasn't. He probably never thought he was the messiah. His goal was likely to teach against some of the harsh rules and laws that went beyond the written Torah. The oral Torah had added many things not found in the written Torah and many of those things were not in line with the written. But the Jesus found in the Christian bible was a liar. He did not meet a single qualification of the end times Moshiach other than being a man. He was not of the seed of David through Solomon, he was never anointed, none of messianic prophecies were fulfilled.
You ought to thank the Roman church. Had it not been for them you'd either serve no god or be serving some pagan god, likely Mithras because that is where Paul got most of his ideas. At least you have been exposed to YHVH albeit in a distorted manner. I can't help but think that Christianity has served a great purpose. In my own life had I not been a Christian I would never have set about later in my life to find the true G-d of all flesh, YHVH. I'm saddened that I was an idol worshiper for so many years but in the end the truth was revealed.
This is your opinion.So what is your gospel anyway, that men become Jews to be saved.
Read the Tanakh and follow it?
Or what?
I don't have a gospel. 'Gospel' is a Christian term. Shed yourself of idols. Seek YHVH the G-d of all flesh.Even the majority of Jewish people do not believe one must follow Judaism to be 'saved'. The Jewish faith is not all hung up on fluffy clouds and lofty music in heaven. Christians focus more on the hereafter than they do the here and now sometimes.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 12 2007,13:30) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 12 2007,02:15) Note how the gospels particularly John, where Roman friendly while condemning the Jews. That is because if the gospels had been condemning of the Romans as well they would have never survived. Yet another lie in the name of self preservation.
Where does John condemn the Jews?If you are referring to the Jews saying “crucify him”, then perhaps recording something that actually happened is about condemning but giving an actual account.
Even then, how is that condemning if he wasn't the messiah as you say?
i believe that Matthew was specifically written for Jews, and he points out multiple Old Testament prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. that does not sound like condemnation of Jews, but instead an invitation to them. Also Paul said that he would gladly spend eternity in hell if it meant that Jews were saved.Quote (Unisage @ Nov. 11 2007,04:28) Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 11 2007,04:12) i would like to pose the question that I asked laurel earlier to both Gene and Unisage. I am assuming that you two are Jewish (again sorry to assume, i know that i shouldn't). I am wondering if either of you consider YHWH to be God's actual name or just a title. feedback please. thanks.
Why not start another thread on the name Issue? Then we all can see how the bogus names were inserted into the English bible..Now this would be something to talk about..
That would be fine, but i would like to know real quick if you think YHWH is God's name or simply a title.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 12 2007,04:48) Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 11 2007,04:12) i would like to pose the question that I asked laurel earlier to both Gene and Unisage. I am assuming that you two are Jewish (again sorry to assume, i know that i shouldn't). I am wondering if either of you consider YHWH to be God's actual name or just a title. feedback please. thanks.
ButrusBox……> in my opinion, every name is a title one way or another. As far as YHWH goes who knows what it is, seeing no one Know's how to even pronounce it properly.Hears somthing interesting, Jesus said a time would come when He would no longer speak to us about the Father in proverbs (figuratively) but would show us plainly about the Father.
To me the I AM WHAT EVER I AM say's it best. The only true
God is what every He want's to be. Why, because everything that existes came from Him and is sustained by Him.Ill tell you somthing weird that happened to me a few weeks ago. Me and a friend went to our county fair, and they had a berthing area in the livestock section of the fair. There was this sheep that had Just given berth to twin lamb and they were sucking from their mothers milk and I pointed at one of the lambs and said “look God is now teaching that lamb right now how to suck milk” and the wierdest thing happened the lamb stopped sucking and turned it head and Just starred at me, it seemed as if God was teaching it and realized I reconized Him and starred at me through the lamb, it truly was a weird experience.
I believe God The Father is Spirit and is present in all things that has life. In fact I believe He sustains it.
O and by the way I am not Jewish as far as I know but am an Israelite of the tribe of Ephraim (England) as far as i Know.
IMO……peace to you BrutusBox…….gene
i see what you mean about all names being titles, but my understanding of Jewish teaching (i may be wrong) is that YHWH is God's actual name, and that other words such as Elohim, are titles. what do you think?909 pages prooves, Satan is also working very hard to shut up the knowledge of Elohim. He can't stop the truth. Elohim will always win in the end. Satan has but such a short time left. Bye Bye!!
Laurel
Gene,
YHWH of in Hebrew the letters are Yood Hey Waw Hey. His Name. Elohim is His title. Elohim includes the Spirit, and everyone who is a part of His Spirit.YHWH means the One who is, the One who was, and the One who will always be. I AM.
Yah for short. Praise be to Yah! Haleluyah!!! Y'shua came in His Father's Name. Yah! He is the Salvation of Yah. Messiah, The Annointed of Yah!
In Greek Y'shua is called Christ meaning annointed. They forget about the Yah part. It was not a word found to exist in their language. So the Greeks reduced Him to just, “annointed.”
Laurel
In the KJV the LORD our God is translated from the Hebrew YHWH our Elohim.
Lord is the equavelent of Master. Y'shua is our Messiah our Master, and leads us in YHWH's path.
Towshab;
Let me ask you a few questions:
From reading your posts, it is apparent that you believe that Jesus Christ existed on the earth at the time the bible says he lived on earth.
Why do you suppose they crucified Jesus?
How is it coincidental that they crucified him during the passover?
Is is also coincidental thay the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the Jews who believed on the Day of Pentecost?
Why did the Jews continue to persecute those who preached in the name of Jesus?
Take Care
Steven
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 12 2007,23:47) Perhaps they were borrowed. Who knows? But the Jewish scripture wasn't written based on another religions bible.
Well that is debatable according to some.Although I may not agree with them, you have shown a pattern of thinking that you should if you are being fair to yourself extend it to your own philosophy.
Here is the Babylonian Deluge Tablet, which talks of an ancient flood.
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 13 2007,05:56) 909 pages prooves, Satan is also working very hard to shut up the knowledge of Elohim. He can't stop the truth. Elohim will always win in the end. Satan has but such a short time left. Bye Bye!! Laurel
I know what you meant. So don't be offended. But technically satan is an elohim. It is a confusion of words, names and terms that lead to so much controversy.The ancient philosophers new very well that to have a discussion or a debate is pointless without all participants first defining “their” definition of the words and issues they plan to address.
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 12 2007,23:49) Look up the phrase 'the Jews' in your bible. It is found 64 times in John alone and 99% of the time it a negative title.
The Encyclopaedia Brittanica records negative things like the Holocaust and that certainly paints Germans in a bad light.OK, so let's omit it even though it is a true record of events.
Sometimes you just have to accept that a record may not be a record of good. Records also record bad events.
You would be naive to think that the Jews said “we love Jesus”. “Do not crucify him”. The truth is the truth and shouldn't be ignored if it looks bad.
But the point Towshab is that man in general is referred to in a negative light. Although God loves man, man is sinful and needs redemption. So does the New Testament breed hatred toward mankind? No. The Pharisees, Romans, Sadducees, Jews, and Greeks all get the same treatment. Likewise in the Pentateuch, the Egyptians, Babylonians, and others get similar treatment.
It is your biased opinion that says that the New Testament incites hatred toward the Jews or speaks negatively of them. The whole bible speaks many negative (but true) things of all men.
Anyway, if the New Testament is hatred toward the Jew, then how come I love the New Testament and especially love the Jewish people as a result. Even one of my best friends was a Jew, but sadly he passed away recently. Before reading the New Testament, I never gave the Jewish people a thought and cared little about their history just as I care little about say the Mauritania's history today.
If you admit it Towshab, you could also say that the Old Testament breeds hatred toward the Jews. After all the Jews ignored God often and went after other gods and suffered persecution, captivity, and other punishments. In fact God used the heathens/gentiles to discipline them at times. And God also had to bear them and their demands like wanting a king who was a man.
I just think you are biased Towshab.
However I also think that this discussion should be about the Trinity as the title says.
What Jesus and John the Baptist said about the Jews according to the flesh is just the tip of the iceberg. The Old Testament prophets just drilled the Jews. In actuality though the prophets speak to all of us that follow Christ today because the application is to the human heart not just an isolated race. Paul even said what happened to Israel ministered to us in the New Testament and not actually to natural Israel because the church is the true Israel of God.
If I understand this Towshab guy right…I don't think he believes in the message the New Testament of what we call the Bible is true. I think he may say that some of it is but some of it isn't. I'm not sure.
I seen a movie about the musulims and how some of them are coming to christ…at this church I visited last night. It was an Assembly of GOD church. It was actually a pretty good movie…about how these musulims were going to try to prove Christianity wrong…by one of them reading the Bible. But he reads it and finds nothing to be wrong with it. So…
I guess it all just boils down to what you want to believe. My mission is never or never was to try and convince people to stop believing what they believe and get them to see it my way. I just make statements based on the FAITH that I have and what I have it in…in other words what I believe.
It's up to GOD, Jesus, and ultimately the Holy Ghost to bring this upon man. Man just delivers the Gospel…and the Holy Spirit moves on the Man's heart about believing it.
You know…Man does have the option of not believing in it. This is indeed the path that some men chose to take. As we can clearly see from some of the posters in this forum board.
You can lead a horse to water …but you can't make him drink.
Quote (Samuel @ Nov. 16 2007,12:12) If I understand this Towshab guy right…I don't think he believes in the message the New Testament of what we call the Bible is true. I think he may say that some of it is but some of it isn't. I'm not sure. I seen a movie about the musulims and how some of them are coming to christ…at this church I visited last night. It was an Assembly of GOD church. It was actually a pretty good movie…about how these musulims were going to try to prove Christianity wrong…by one of them reading the Bible. But he reads it and finds nothing to be wrong with it. So…
I guess it all just boils down to what you want to believe. My mission is never or never was to try and convince people to stop believing what they believe and get them to see it my way. I just make statements based on the FAITH that I have and what I have it in…in other words what I believe.
It's up to GOD, Jesus, and ultimately the Holy Ghost to bring this upon man. Man just delivers the Gospel…and the Holy Spirit moves on the Man's heart about believing it.
You know…Man does have the option of not believing in it. This is indeed the path that some men chose to take. As we can clearly see from some of the posters in this forum board.
You can lead a horse to water …but you can't make him drink.
Samuel You are so right, you can tell them, but you cant make them belief it if their minds are closed. I know that some scriptures have errors in them, but my Husband has a Ryre Study Bible King James Translation. It list the errors. Most Scriptures line up pretty good, so I don't worry about it.
I am glad to see that you are grounded in your Faith and I appreciate all of your posts.
Peace and Love Mrs.Well the way I believe there is only one FAITH to be grounded in…the one stone thats not going to fall…Jesus
When the storm comes just hold on to that stone and you will be fine. I'm going through some storms right now myself…but I have FAITH that Jesus is going to show me the way out of that storm. I'm being beat on by satan and his imps …i've even fallen a time or two but I always get right back up and cry out for Jesus to come help me.I really do not wish to debate things like this. I could debate weather you should wear pants or cut your hair…or watch a movie or things like that…but Jesus is not open for debate in my case…he has come in the flesh, he has died for our sins, he has risen…therefore defeating satan. Our victory is not in ourselves…it's in Jesus…the Blood of Jesus to be exact. You ever heard that song “There is power, power wonder working power in the precious blood of the lamb”? Well there is. I know all this not only because the Bible tells me so…but the Holy Spirit that comes from GOD also tells me so as well. That same man whom they killed GOD hath raised from the dead and made Christ…our Lord Jesus Christ…returning us to fellowship with GOD.
I am going to hold on to that stone…I had a dream about holding on to it…and it told me that as long as I held on to it the storm would never be able to tear me from it. And, that when I thought all hope is lost…he will pick me up out of the storm.
I'm going to believe in this no matter what anyone in this world says or points out in what ever book they can find. Jesus Christ is my Saviour for ever and ever amen. Without him I know that I would surely be lost.
GOD loves me and Jesus Loves me. For me to toy around with such ideas as are being said here would not show them very much love in return.
Surly, one can see my standpoint on this. UPON THIS ROCK I WILL NOT BE MOVED EVER!
SATAN….YOU CAN NOT MOVE ME FROM THIS ROCK! DO YOU HEAR ME? All I have to do is cry out and Jesus is going to come to my rescue. I'm going to hold steadfast in this faith and belief. NO MATTER WHAT.
And thats my final answer.
Samuel Great Job. I like your Post. Yes, that rock I will built my Church on. Some will think that rock is Peter, but I think that Rock is Jesus. So I am with you . I also look to that Rock of Salvation. He died for us, that is how much He loved us. Millions of Christians have died for Him also. What great Faith they had. I hope and pray if I have ever have to choose between Man and God under the tread of dying, that I would choose dead. We are in the end times and everything is possible. Stay strong Samuel. I am old going on 70 in July of 2008. So maybe my days on earth are numbered, who knows, only God. In Him I put my Trust. Amen
Peace and Love Mrs.
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