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Y'shua Messiah said there is no greater thing than to lay down your own life for a friend.
This is the Messiah I follow.He did not lay down His life for Himself. See the difference. He did it for His Father; as it was His Father's will. It was His Father's will that we all come to know and worship Him by recognizing this gift.
John 3:14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
Numbers 21:8 And the Lord said to Moses, “Make a poisonous serpent, and set it on a pole; and everyone who is bitten shall look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a serpent of bronze, and put it upon a pole; and whenever a serpent bit someone, that person would look at the serpent of bronze and live.
2 Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, broke down the pillars, and cut down the sacred pole. He broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had made offerings to it; it was called Nehushtan.
The people in the wilderness separated the true meaning behind the bronze serpent and worshipped it as if itself saved lives. The intent was that they were to know that God was saving lives through the bronze serpent. Trinitarians have destroyed the true meaning behind Jesus. Christ said that he does nothing of himself, what he does is through God. As the serpent was the mediator in the wilderness showing God’s mercy and His desire for men to live, Christ is our mediator in all the earth, for the same reasons.
The fact that the book of John is comparing these two together, I believe is warning that we should be very careful in how we view Jesus and in what light we should be worshipping him. We would not want to make the same mistake that the people in the wilderness did with the serpent and believe Jesus is God.
Kejonn- I have to agree with Laurel, enlightening explanation of the Word (word). Thank you!
Laurel! I thought I had explained that we were in the Cath.Church from Babies until God called us. That was through Mr. Armstrong. Then for the first time we started to read the Bible. That was a live time ago. We were baptized according to scripture in 1985 in the W.WC of God. I know that God was with us then too even tho they didn't understand what it means to be under Grace. When Mr. Armstrong died Mr. Tkatch took over and started to change all kinds of doctrine including the trinity doctrine and also keeps Christmas etc.now. When Mr. Armstrong was alive we had about 140thousand members all over the World and also Feast sides all over the World. When Members left they started their own Churches. I don't know who R.C.G. is. Are you referring to the Philadelphia Trumpet? The United Church of God? Mr. Meridith? Mr. League? and so many more all over the U.S.A. I don't know about any other Country, what happened there. But the Church that took over when Mr. Armstrong died is still Called the W.W.C of God as far as I know,located in Pensacola, Florida. We left in 1995 because we do not believe in the trinity or any other Holidays. But we also do not believe in that we have to keep the O.T. Feast's.
As far as the Apostles are concerned the kept the Feast because they were Jew;s. In one of my Post's I had posted some scriptures about that, but I will do it again for you. But before I do that , I want to mention about receiving the Holy Spirit at Baptism. After the day that we were baptized God right of showed me some Sin's that I was doing on a regular basis. I was sitting on my sewing Machine when things did not go right and I was cursing up a storm. It surprised me so, because I had no idea I was cursing like that. From then on God showed me so many of my faults and I thank God for it. I have learned a lot and still are doing so even tho I am a Grandmother and retired. Our Grandchildren ages are from 24 to 6 in all 11. Here are those scripturesExodus 34:27-26
Deut. 4:13
Galatian read all
Galatian 4:23-25
Galatian 5:1-4
what do you mean by Peace out?
When you are talking about YHWH LORD, LORD is always spelled in Capital letters.
I hope the War in IRAQ ends soon so all our Soldiers come Home including your Son. I have been praying for them. I know the fear, I lost my Father in the second World War, and so did my Husband. We are both from Germany and We both went through a lot. Nobody Win's in a War. Wars have always existed, and I can't wait when God puts an end to it all, and this World will finally see Peace.
In Christian Love Mrs.IM4TruthQuote (Jodi @ July 11 2007,04:26) John 3:14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Numbers 21:8 And the Lord said to Moses, “Make a poisonous serpent, and set it on a pole; and everyone who is bitten shall look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a serpent of bronze, and put it upon a pole; and whenever a serpent bit someone, that person would look at the serpent of bronze and live.
2 Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, broke down the pillars, and cut down the sacred pole. He broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had made offerings to it; it was called Nehushtan.
The people in the wilderness separated the true meaning behind the bronze serpent and worshipped it as if itself saved lives. The intent was that they were to know that God was saving lives through the bronze serpent. Trinitarians have destroyed the true meaning behind Jesus. Christ said that he does nothing of himself, what he does is through God. As the serpent was the mediator in the wilderness showing God’s mercy and His desire for men to live, Christ is our mediator in all the earth, for the same reasons.
The fact that the book of John is comparing these two together, I believe is warning that we should be very careful in how we view Jesus and in what light we should be worshipping him. We would not want to make the same mistake that the people in the wilderness did with the serpent and believe Jesus is God.
Kejonn- I have to agree with Laurel, enlightening explanation of the Word (word). Thank you!
jodi…..> excellent post it's what I believe has happened in christanity they preach and worship the messenger (Christ) and not the God who sent him. and just as the serpent became a God the the ancient Isrealites, that has happened in christanity, they have created another False God and it is the false image of Jesus portrayed as the Almighty God in the trinitarian Idology. Which Jesus will destroy at his return.Blessings and Peace to you ……….gene
I am just a little upset that a member of this Forum told me to chill out. When I posted my last post I asked my Husband what He thought “Peace out” meant. That is just not right to do to tell another Christian to chill out. I thought we are on this Forum to exchange our beliefs and if we find them right to learn from them. Maybe I am wrong. Then I don't belong on this Forum. I don't like to get upset. There was somebody else that hurt not3in1 and I thought at the time how wrong that was too. God forgive me for getting upset, but I am Human. I just hope that doesn't happen again.
Peace not out. MrsIK4TruthHi MIM,
You are a valued member here and your posts are very well and thoughtfully presented. There is always a certain amount of conflict as all are working towards understanding and none has it yet.Im4truth….I don't think the words were meant to be insulting. to me it would mean a younger person and some time they say things that way. take it like he or she was saying…..Peace to you and iam out of her. i think it the younger jargan or language. please doin't get disscouraged.
may God bless you and keep you……gene
The best way to find out who Jesus is to read the scriptures that state what Jesus said with respect to who he was and is. The rule is all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for our learning and instruction… II Tim. 3:16. Just about every writing I read concerning the Godhead is limited to scriptures that only express a limited understanding of Christ. You have requested that the arguments be limited to three scriptures including John 1:1, John 20:28, and Heb. 1:8. Lets look at those first.
John 1:1 states, “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In this passage we do not see the name Jesus, Son of God, Son of Man, or any other names used for Christ in the Gospel. What we read is that God's Word is God. The same writer, John the Divine, writes in 1 John 1 that the Word of Life was manifested and we have seen it with our eyes and our hands have handled it. That is the life that was with the Father was manifest unto us. How was the life manifest to us? The word was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, John 1:14. These scriptures show that the life that was manifest to us in the person of Jesus Christ was that eternal life which was with the Father. Neither of them state that Jesus Christ was eternal.
Now the 2nd scripture per your request is John 20:28. This is Thomas stating to the Christ, “My Lord and my God.” Thomas stated that Christ was his Lord and his God. Thomas did not say, “the Lord God”. He was merely recognizing Christ as his personal Lord and his personal God. This scripture alone might make a person think that Christ is God, but when taken in context to the remainder of scripture it cannot because that interpretation contradicts what many other scripture expressly state regarding Christ relationship to the Father. Christ said to Mary he was returning to his God and his Father. John 20:17 Christ is expressly stating that the Father is not only his Father, but his God. This scripture contradicts the trinity teaching that Christ and the Father are co-equal. This truth is abundant in the Gospel of John. There are many more scriptures that give specific insight to Christ relationship with his Father. In John 5:30 Jesus states I can of mine own self do nothing. Christ said in himself he could do nothing, but Christ taught that with God all things are possible. When Christ said he could do nothing in himself he was making it clear that he was not God. If he is not God, he cannot be eternal, or self-existent as the Father. Christ said that he lived by the Father, he was dependent on the Father. One
that is dependent on another cannot be God because God is fully self-existent and self-sufficient in himself. There are so many scriptures that bring out these truths that any believer could find with ease. Read the Gospel of John. The Father gave the spirit not by measure to the Son. The Father giveth the Son all things. Its always the Father giving to the Son. Why? Because Christ is completely dependent on the Father. If Christ had to receive all that he had from the Father then he must not of had all things prior, otherwise it would have been pointless to give all things to him. Christ authority was from the Father. Becoming our Savior, Christ said was not his will but the Father's will. Paul the Apostle states in Corinthians that God is the head of Christ. No such statements are ever made with respect to the Father having a Father. He that has a head cannot be God. Again, this contradicts the trinity teaching because it states that the Father and the Son are equal and co-existent eternally. The Father is clearly his God, not just his Father. It was the Father that gave Christ the power to create all things. Later we see that Christ uses his relationship with his Father to teach his own relationship with his disciples.Hebrews 1:8 says “But unto the Son he saith, thy throne oh God…” Here, the Father says to his Son, thy throne oh God. The key is the Father is speaking to his Son. Christ exaltation came from his Father. Hebrews says he glorified not himself to become our high priest. It was God that glorified Christ. If Christ was exalted by God then there must have been a time when he was not exalted. Christ is under commandment to the Father and subject to him in all things. When Christ was baptized, at the Mount of Transfiguration, and in the Temple, the Father declared, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Christ is more than an image of the Father created by the Father, but a Son that learned to please the Father in all things long before the foundation of the world because Christ describes a relationship he had with the Father before the world was. John 17 It was based upon Christ's pleasing the Father that the Father exalted Christ and gave him a name above every name and gave him power to create the world. Hebrews 1. The Father has also committed all judgment to the Son. The Father has given to the Son to have life in himself. All that Christ has he received from the Father and his kingdom shall know no end. So if you're trying to reach a conclusion about the deity of Christ without all the clarifying teachings that Christ gave us you will fail to understand that God's work in Christ has been progressive. Now Christ has been exalted by the Father as Lord of Heaven and Earth, but it occurred over time. On the other hand, the Father is never referenced in scripture as having received anything from Christ except worship and obedience.
The Father delivered all things to the Son. When did that occur? When it pleased the Father due to what Jesus said “He that sent me is with me for I always do those things which please him.” John 8:29 Christ was exalted because he kept God's commandments and pleased God. Paul states that now under grace we should also please God, sin no longer has dominion over us because we are not in the flesh but in the spirit. Enoch, however, had the testimony that he pleased God, and was translated based on his obedience, this was long before grace came by Christ.All of the names given to Christ were just that-they were given to him because as Christ said he pleased the Father in all things. Christ even said that he was under commandment from the Father. He that is under the command of another cannot be God. Paul states that Christ was “made” a high priest after the order of Melchizedek, not having father or mother, without beginning of days or end of life. This is very insightful to understanding God's work in Christ. The Father has given all things to the Son. He has even granted to Christ his eternality in representing us before him. The scripture says the Lord swore and will not repent thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. When did God state this? We don't know. We just know that he decreed it at some specific point in time before the foundation of the world. If Christ was already our high priest this would have been completely unnecessary. Like Paul said if the first covenant was good there would not have been the necessity of a change to a new covenant. Christ was granted Lordship over heaven and earth because he pleased the Father in all things. (Hebrews teaches about being treated as the sons of God if we endure chastening.) In Revelation we see the God personified in the person of Christ including the name the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, the Word of God. How did he get those names? He said I have been given all things from my Father. Also, in Isaiah 9:6 we see God declaring what names he would be given. Revelation says he has a certain name that no one knows.
Finally, Christ said he was with the Father before the foundation of the world. When exactly? We don't know. But that does not make Christ eternal. Remember, Christ said to the Pharisees and Scribes that ye are of your father the devil who was a liar from the “Beginning” That statement certainly does not teach that the Devil
is eternal, only that he was with the Father from the Beginning. We have little or no information from scripture on what occurred before the foundation of the world, but we do know that Christ was there with his Father because he stated so in John 17, but he did not say he was eternally with his Father. He was with the Father, but he was not God. Christ said he received all things from his Father and his God and he will always be subject to his father even in the world to come. I Cor. 15:28.Nick and Gene! Thank you for your encouraging word's. I hope it only was younger jargan, whatever that means. I know our Grandson's come up with some funny words too. You got me laughing now, I am getting old. I am so glad I am looking forward to the World Tomorrow.
Peace be with you both Mrs.IM4Truth
The best way to find out who Jesus is to read the scriptures that state what Jesus said with respect to who he was and is. The rule is all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for our learning and instruction… II Tim. 3:16. Just about every writing I read concerning the Godhead is limited to scriptures that only express a limited understanding of Christ. You have requested that the arguments be limited to three scriptures including John 1:1, John 20:28, and Heb. 1:8. Lets look at those first.
John 1:1 states, “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In this passage we do not see the name Jesus, Son of God, Son of Man, or any other names used for Christ in the Gospel. What we read is that God's Word is God. The same writer, John the Divine, writes in 1 John 1 that the Word of Life was manifested and we have seen it with our eyes and our hands have handled it. That is the life that was with the Father was manifest unto us. How was the life manifest to us? The word was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, John 1:14. These scriptures show that the life that was manifest to us in the person of Jesus Christ was that eternal life which was with the Father. Neither of them state that Jesus Christ was eternal.
Now the 2nd scripture per your request is John 20:28. This is Thomas stating to the Christ, “My Lord and my God.” Thomas stated that Christ was his Lord and his God. Thomas did not say, “the Lord God”. He was merely recognizing Christ as his personal Lord and his personal God. This scripture alone might make a person think that Christ is God, but when taken in context to the remainder of scripture it cannot because that interpretation contradicts what many other scripture expressly state regarding Christ relationship to the Father. Christ said to Mary he was returning to his God and his Father. John 20:17 Christ is expressly stating that the Father is not only his Father, but his God. This scripture contradicts the trinity teaching that Christ and the Father are co-equal. This truth is abundant in the Gospel of John. There are many more scriptures that give specific insight to Christ relationship with his Father. In John 5:30 Jesus states I can of mine own self do nothing. Christ said in himself he could do nothing, but Christ taught that with God all things are possible. When Christ said he could do nothing in himself he was making it clear that he was not God. If he is not God, he cannot be eternal, or self-existent as the Father. Christ said that he lived by the Father, he was dependent on the Father. One
that is dependent on another cannot be God because God is fully self-existent and self-sufficient in himself. There are so many scriptures that bring out these truths that any believer could find with ease. Read the Gospel of John. The Father gave the spirit not by measure to the Son. The Father giveth the Son all things. Its always the Father giving to the Son. Why? Because Christ is completely dependent on the Father. If Christ had to receive all that he had from the Father then he must not of had all things prior, otherwise it would have been pointless to give all things to him. Christ authority was from the Father. Becoming our Savior, Christ said was not his will but the Father's will. Paul the Apostle states in Corinthians that God is the head of Christ. No such statements are ever made with respect to the Father having a Father. He that has a head cannot be God. Again, this contradicts the trinity teaching because it states that the Father and the Son are equal and co-existent eternally. The Father is clearly his God, not just his Father. It was the Father that gave Christ the power to create all things. Later we see that Christ uses his relationship with his Father to teach his own relationship with his disciples.Hebrews 1:8 says “But unto the Son he saith, thy throne oh God…” Here, the Father says to his Son, thy throne oh God. The key is the Father is speaking to his Son. Christ exaltation came from his Father. Hebrews says he glorified not himself to become our high priest. It was God that glorified Christ.
All of the names given to Christ were just that-they were given to him because as Christ said he pleased the Father in all things. Christ even said that he was under commandment from the Father. He that is under the command of another cannot be God. Paul states that Christ was “made” a high priest after the order of Melchizedek, not having father or mother, without beginning of days or end of life. This is very insightful to understanding God's work in Christ. The Father has given all things to the Son. He has even granted to Christ his eternality in representing us before him. The scripture says the Lord swore and will not repent thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. When did God state this? We don't know. We just know that he decreed it at some specific point in time before the foundation of the world. If Christ was already our high priest this would have been completely unnecessary. Like Paul said if the first covenant was good there would not have been the necessity of a change to a new covenant. Christ was granted Lordship over heaven and earth because he pleased the Father in all things. (Hebrews teaches about being treated as the sons of God if we endure chastening.) In Revelation we see the God personified in the person of Christ including the name the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, the Word of God. How did he get those names? He said I have been given all things from my Father. Also, in Isaiah 9:6 we see God declaring what names he would be given. Revelation says he has a certain name that no one knows.
Finally, Christ said he was with the Father before the foundation of the world. When exactly? We don't know. But that does not make Christ eternal. Remember, Christ said to the Pharisees and Scribes that ye are of your father the devil who was a liar from the “Beginning” That statement certainly does not teach that the Devil is eternal, only that he was with the Father from the Beginning. We have little or no information from scripture on what occurred before the foundation of the world, but we do know that Christ was there with his Father because he stated so in John 17, but he did not say he was eternally with his Father. He was with the Father, but he was not God. Christ said he received all things from his Father and his God and he will always be subject to his father even in the world to come. I Cor. 15:28.
Hi Steve! Your Post is very good. You belief that we are under Grace and not under the Law, We belief that also. Do you belief that Christ was created? Mrs. IM4Truth
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 11 2007,01:11) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..
The Word is Jesus our God.
Is he? The verse doesn't say “and the Word was our God”. You added a word there
.Quote Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;In case you missed it
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto
the supper of the great God;Jesus the Lamb of God and the Word of God, is the Great God
Are you assuming that just because the words “great God” are in verse 17 that they apply to Yeshua, who is in verse 16? John merely looked to another place to where an angel cried out. It has nothing to do with Yeshua. Please read ALL of the words in the verses or else you can see anything you want.Quote Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
The camel is the trinity, the gnat is the gospel presented in the Bible.Dear Iam4truth,
What I meant by peace out is: Peace to you, over and out. Yes it is something young people say today, you know they abbreviate everything LOL (laugh out loud).
Aslo you don't have to worry about me, I won't curse at you, although to be very honest, if you say something I do not believe I will challange it, but not for negative purposes. Just to be clear, or maybe I'll learn something new.
I am glad you are inspired to do good too.
I have a question for you and many others on this website.
Why does everyone keep saying those laws were for Israel and not for us?
You must understand who Israel is first. You must understand that YHWH our creator said they were His Feasts, His laws. He never gave them away, they are still HIS.
My Elohim watches over me and my children always. He does because He is patient and kind, forgiving… I used to celebrate pagen traditions unknowingly. He looked past that and He heard my prayers.
Ever since I learned about the Sabbaths (all of them), I have done my best to follow them. I have been this way since a kid with the rest of His commands. The Sabbath was a secret untill about three years ago. Once I began following all His laws, He has blessed me with more inner peace, a feeling of being full, not empty ever, I am not fearfull of anything that could happen to me or to my children, because I know ultimately we are saved. I read Scripture many hours a week, I pray all day long. I lisen to good music.The biggest thing I worry about now is all the people who will drown in the flood so to speak, when His wrath comes. I know it is soon. I know I will see Y'shua Messiah coming in the clouds before I taste the first death. The more you follow Him (Y'shua), the more you will learn.
I know my Father in heaven, He is with me all day long. This is what belief and obedience has done for me, so if you tell me it's only for Israel, all I can say is I am Israel!!! He called me, I heard, I answered. Can you hear Him too?
BTW (by the way) I am under grace, as is everyone who believes Y'shua is the Messiah and the Son of Elohim, and guards the commands.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ July 11 2007,11:32) Now the 2nd scripture per your request is John 20:28. This is Thomas stating to the Christ, “My Lord and my God.” Thomas stated that Christ was his Lord and his God. Thomas did not say, “the Lord God”. He was merely recognizing Christ as his personal Lord and his personal God. This scripture alone might make a person think that Christ is God, but when taken in context to the remainder of scripture it cannot because that interpretation contradicts what many other scripture expressly state regarding Christ relationship to the Father.
Is this serious? Mr. Steve we are to have only One personal God – YHWH. To argue that Yeshua was Thomas' personal God but not the true God is an utterly ludicrous proposition. A Jewish monotheist would not have a secondary God alongside of YHWH. I can't believe anyone would think along these lines…..If Yeshua was Thomas' Lord and God then He is the true God.
IS8 I think We do only have one HEAVENLY FATHER WHO IS ABOVE ALL EPHESIAN4:6 and we have ONE JESUS CHRIST EPHESIAN 4:5 When Thomas said My Lord and My God He was given Christ honor because He had just risen from the dead. He deserves that and He is our Savior and our High Priest and Mediator between God and us. Now we can go directly to the Throne of God. Before only the High Priest was able to do so, and only once a year for the forgiveness of Sin. Jesus said that when you worship me you worship the Father. But so many only worship the Fathers creation rather the His Creator,God the Father. He created through His Son Jesus Christ, but the Power behind is our ALMIGHTY GOD AND FATHER. When I pray I pray through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Son Of God not the ALMIGHTY GOD. That is what I thought what Steve”s understanding is. Since I agreed with Him, I took the prerogative to answer you.
Peace Mrs.IM4TruthThere has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. Some myopically focus on Christ's incarnation as a man, yet they ignore the overwhelming evidence of His deity. When confronted with these truths they then try to “dance around” them.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Some on this forum just want to look at Bible verses that are in the context of Christ mission as Messiah but don't like when shown the multitude of scripture identifying Him as the divine Jehovah God. They wish that He will stay eternally incarnate. For some, this is willful blindness which is sin.
Jesus Christ is the creator, not a creature and will always be equal to the Father in this sense. Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man or within the context of He being Messiah and High Priest which is still continuing
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among usThere are some instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I.
In these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
The phrase “O God” is a worshipful phrase indicating the reverence each Person of the Godhead have one for another. Each recognises the other as their God. Each are willing to submit one to the other.
Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn the character and humility of God.
Jesus said.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
The Pharisees understood that Jesus was claiming deity and equality with God, that is why they tried to stone Him.
Jesus could have told them that they misunderstood Him, but He didn't. Jesus knew that the Pharisees understood His assertion of deity and did not correct them.
Jesus could have said “Listen fellas, you misunderstood me. I was not blaspheming by claiming to be God.” But Jesus did not correct them, thus confirming His deity to them.
It seems that the Pharisees had better understanding of Jesus' words than many on this forum.
Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”, referring to Jesus.
However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man.
The Father would maintain the head position and He would become the central One to pray to. He does not minister to us in the direct way of the Son and Holy Spirit. He would not have the central focus to save mankind and to eventually be as highly exalted as the Saviour. He is self effacing in this respect.
Each member of the Godhead took on a position that was selfless to the extreme and thus revealing the character of God.
Jesus said
Luk 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
The right hand of power is metaphor meaning that all authority belongs to Christ. That is all authority. Can you imagine the Godhead relinquishing all their authority to a created being? Of course not! Jesus is Jehovah God.
We can see how self effaci
ng each Person of the Godhead is to be willing to submit one to the other.We can now understand better Christ’s statement
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
We can stand in awe of the great love, humility and even servanthood of the Godhead.
The apostle Paul understood just who Jesus was when he wrote the following
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Paul had studied the scriptures that testified of Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.That is why Paul said
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
We sometimes see statements like
1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”
John 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah.
In these instances Jesus was either encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission as Messiah and High Priest is still continuing.1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
These verses and others have been utilized historically by the Arians (of whom Jehovah's Witnesses are a revival), to try to “prove” that Jesus is lesser than the Father and therefore not God in the flesh.
Upon closer inspection, however, a clearer picture emerges.
See the following.In 1 Cor 15:28, the subjection spoken of is that of the Son as incarnate, not the Son as Son in essence. While this verse tells us that God will be “all in all,”
Colossians 3:11 tells us that “. . . Christ {is} all, and in all.”
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Consider the verse
“it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell” (Col. 1:19)
In the KJV the words “the Father” are in italics which means that they were provided by the translators. There is no evidence that they belong there at all. There are no Strongs number because the words do not exist.
See the Literal Translation Bible
Col 1:19 because all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him,MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.
JOHN 5:23 That all {men} should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.
JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
*TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
+ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.*ISAIAH 43:11 I, {even} I, {am} the Lord(Jehovah); and beside me {there is} no saviour.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.PHILIPPIANS 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Laurel! First I am happy for you, that God is with you, that you pray all Day etc. That is what Christians do.
We are predestined to be called. Since so many on this Forum do not believe in what the world teaches, I feel that they have been called. But many are called, but few are chosen.I am going to try one more time to show you some scriptures why we are not under the old Covenant any more, and that covenant was written for Israel.
HEBREW 7:12 FOR THE PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED, OF NECESSITY THERE IS ALSO A CHANGE IN THE LAW.
EXODUS 24:12 THEN THE LORD SAID TO MOSES,”COME UP ON THE MOUNTAIN AND BE THERE:AND I WILL GIVE YOU TABLETS OF STONE, AND THE LAW AND THE COMMANTMENTS WHICH ARE WRITTEN, THAT YOU MAY TEACH THEM.”
EXODUS 31:13 SPEAKING ALSO TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SAYING SURELY MY SABBATHS YOU WILL KEEP, FOR IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND YOU THROUGHOUT YOUR GENERATION, THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD WHO SANCTIFIED YOU.
VERSE: 16 THEREFORE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SHALL OBSERVE THE SABBATH THROUOUT THEIR GENERATION AS A PERPETUAL COVENANT.
VERSE 17 IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOREVER ETC.EXODUS 34:27-28 THEN THE LORD SAID TO MOSES,” WRITE THESE WORDS FOR ACCORDING TO THE TENOR OF THESE WORDS I HAVE MADE A COVENANT WITH YOU AND WITH ISRAEL.”
VERSE 28 SO HE WAS THERE FOR FORTY DAYS AND NIGHTS HE NEITHER ATE BREAD NOR DRANK WATER. AND HE WROTE ON THE TABLETS THE WORDS OF THE _COVENANT THE TEN COMMANTMENTS._WE ARE NOW UNDER A NEW COVENANT
JOHN 13:34 A NEW COMMANDMENT I GIVE ON TO YOU, THAT YE LOVE ONE ANOTHER: AS I HAVE LOVED YOU, THAT YE ALSO LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
JOHN 14:15 IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMENTMENT.
JOHN 15:12 THIS IS MY COMMANTMENT, THAT YE LOVE ANOTHER, AS I HAVE LOVED YOU.
GALATIANS 4:23-26 BUT WHO WAS OF THE BONDWOMAN WAS BORN ACCORDING TO THE FLESH AND HE OF THE FREE WOMAN THROUGH PROMISE
VERSE 24 WHICH THINGS ARE SYMBOLIC FOR THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM MOUNT SINAI WHICH GIVES BIRTH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS HAGAR
VERSE 25 FOR THIS HAGAR IS MOUNT SINAI IN ARABIA AND CORRESPONDS TO JERUSALEM WHICH NOW IS AND IS IN BONDAGE WITH HER CHILDREN
VERSE 26 THE JERUSALEM ABOVE IS FREE, WHICH IS THE MOTHER OF US ALL.GALATIANS 5:1-4 STAND FAST THEREFORE IN THE LIBERTY BY WHICH CHRIST HAS MADE US FREE AND DO NOT BE ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE.
VERSE 4 “YOU HAVE BECOME ESTRANGED FROM CHRIST, YOU WHO ATTEMPT TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW;” YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE.In closing I like to say:” When you read the Sermon on the Mount, it shows me that so much more is expected of us then just to keep the letter of the Law. We are to Worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH not just Truth. There are Scriptures that supports my belief and I hope some other member will help our, I am getting tired, my old bones are beginning to hurt.
In Christian Love Mrs.IM4Truth
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