- This topic is empty.
- Posts
T8…..NOT A “MERE” SHELL, BUT A FULLY HUMAN BEING, WHO RECIEVED INTO HIM THE SPURIT OF THE LIVING GOD WHICH DIRECTED HIM AND EVEN TOLD HIM WHAT AND HOW TO SAY WHAT THE FATHER WANTED TO BE SAY. NOW you can call that a punch and judy show all you want, but that is far from the truth. YOUR teaching seems to be that the spirit of God means nothing and does not actually led and guide a person. BUT then again you do believE in a “FREE” WILL, RIGHT, THEN WHO NEEDS GOD RIGHT, WHEN WE CAN DO IT ON OUR OWN.
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi t8,
Because you do not recognise or respect the ability of the Spirit of God to transform a man
you will continue to preach your humanistic religion.
Come out of her.
Sorry to be jumping in here. Guys, I think it is clear that Jesus was a man born holy and sinless in the manner of Adam and ‘pre-destined’ TO BE the saviour of the world (that is, to save mankind from the eternal death of the spirit caused by the sin of Adam).
As much as he (that is, ‘someone’) was pre-destined to be ‘the christ’ – which the Jews all knew would come one day – Jesus STILL had to prove himself as being such. It was not UNTIL he spoke those immortal words (yes, that was a pun!) ‘It is done!’ that his title of ‘The Christ’ could be eternally conferred on him.
Folks, remember please that the New Testament scriptures was written AFTER Jesus had died and was raised again. Many parts of such are written IN HINDSIGHT….!
You will of course be aware that even Jesus himself in the garden of gethsemane doubted for a moment that he could take the final step of dying – mankind’s Salvation required that an innocent, holy, sinless should die; God promised that such a person would be raised up again to glory!
Christ – The Saviour – the only holy sinless one of mankind – a true Son (imitation) of the only true God; the Father, could only be so IF AND WHEN the task is completed – when it is said: ‘It is done!’.
Truly, is a saviour a saviour if that saviour failed to save?
T8…..NOW THREE WITTNESS against your false asumptions. IS THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU?
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Jael…..Please take time and read the post, 2 Ths 2 EXPLAINED , and also SATAN’S DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION.
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi t8,
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Now the Lord is the Spirit.
Flesh contributes nothing.
Gene, I just read 2 Thes 2. I don’t see anything pertaining to the discussion at hand.
I do see that in verse 2, 14 and 16 Jesus is called ‘Lord’ and the Father alone (verse 16) is called ‘God’ (and no third, let alone second, ‘god’-person)…
Also, verse 13 shows that God chose the Apostles from the beginning …They were later GIVEN to Jesus: ‘Father, I thank you for those you have given me; They were yours and you gave them to me…’. If Jesus WAS God, how did he give himself what he already owned?
Kick in the teeth to trinitarians – how do they explain their way out of that?
Jael……I POSTED a thread on “2 Thessalonians 2 :1-12 explained” go to the start of the post and read it through, and tell me what you think brother. You are right it has nothing to do with this thread, just wanted your opinion on it.
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
People, please be careful when using the word and term ‘Worship’.
You are to take notice that ‘simply bowing down and making offerings or acknowledging a person out of reverence IS NOT the same WORSHIP as that given to [a] GOD!’
Notice that I say [a] God. True WORSHIP means pledging your life to that revered one: sacrificing yourself or something of high importance in sincere grace and honour; deeming that entity (stick, stone, human, spirit) as your lawgiver, leader, mightiest, most holy one… The philistines gave as much to that which they claim as God(s),Dagon, for instance. The Hindus claim three gods, same as the Egyptians and the Greeks have hundreds of them. The Jews encountered many nations with miriad gods. Do not believe that because we are Christians and believe in one God that this should claim all other gods are false gods IN THE EYES OF THEUR SUBJECTS.
The word ‘God’ is not unique to Christianity – it SIMPLY MEANS ‘The most highly revered one of spiritual leadership’, Mightiest Ruler, head of the spiritual order’. We believe our GOD is the ONLY TRUE GOD for us. We wish that all people should believe as we do – and I agree !
So, Worship is to this one God. To him we do all what I showed you above. But to others, we offer reverence in accordance with status.
We bow down to a King – but that is not Godly Worship. Even that King is not our spiritual leader, that King is human… Jesus born a babe is human. Jesus bowed down to by his disciples was not given spiritual GOD WORSHIP… Hey, the Jews would have arrested them for blasphemy? Did they? They saw the disciples bow down to him… Yet trinitarians insist this was GODLY WORSHIP and thus to them prove Jesus was God… Oh please!!! Even the Jews themselves said, ‘we have but one God!’ and they certainly didn’t think it was Jesus despite what trinitarians try to say they thought!!!
No, please beware of the connotations of using the word ‘Worship’ in your posts and offerings elsewhere.
Hi KJ,
The maji were of the world.
Astrologers who understood the signs in the heavens. Gen 1.14-15
Perhaps their mission was to embarrass the Jews who should have known from the scriptures as even Herod understood.
We do not walk in the ways of the world.
Indict? Rubbish.
In the Old Testament King David’s wife ‘worshipped’ him as she lay at his bedside. The Hebrew word for ‘Worship’ is the exact same word for ‘Bowed down to’…
Who is going to say that she carried out an illegal sacred act that was only meant for Almighty God.. Or…
Why don’t trinitarians say that King David was Almighty God since he received ‘Worship’ from a human and he didn’t object to it?
Does anyone here know what ‘Worship’ given to someone’s God is?
Did the disciples see Jesus as Almighty God?
Jesus told the Samaritan woman that ‘Worship’ (to a Jew) was performed ‘ONLY IN JERUSALEM’. So it was not an act that was carried out on a random basis. The Jews ‘gathered together to worship their one true God’ – simply ‘bowing down’ was not an act of Godly Worship.
True Jael. Men did worship Jesus, but as the son of God.
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
And as you say, David was worshipped as King of Israel.
Trinitarians are confused. Worship alone does not make something God.
I can honour people for who they are, but we only honour one as God, that is the Father.
I honour Jesus as the son of God.
I honour my wife etc….
T8 said:
True Jael. Men did worship Jesus, but as the son of God.
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
There is no difference. The son of someone is ontologically the same as his father.
Son of Man = Man (ontologically)
Son of God = God (ontologically)
Trinitarians are confused. Worship alone does not make something God.
Same old worn out argument. You are confused. Those in the boat committed idolatry according to the Decalogue if Jesus was not God.
Will you ever be able to come up with a slam dunk argument?
Hello Jack, … Ontologically?
So the son of a King is a King?… ontologically?
Oh, and the son of a woman is …., ontologically?
Jack, do you realise that The son of God, Jesus the Christ, is a human – God is Spirit. How is that ‘ontological’?
TO ALL…. please show a single scripture that SAYS that any deciple worshipped Jesus “AS A GOD”. We are told to bow our knee to JESUS, “TO THE GLORY OF GOD” , not to the glory of Jesus. WE submit to Jesus “TO THE GLORY OF GOD” big difference then bowing to him as a God. IMO
peace and love to you all and yours. ………gene
Hi Jael,
Did you realize that ontology has to do with the nature of a being and not their gender or their office?
The son of a human type of being would be another human type of being
The son of a particular animal, lets say a horse for example, would be another horse…and so on.
Jesus is clearly identified as the only begotten Son of God. It is a reasonable argument to say that Jesus, before he came in the flesh and even before creation, was begotten as the same type of being as the one who begat him.
Fyi, a begettal does not cause something to exist but instead a begettal brings something that ALREADY EXISTS within and brings them forth to continue to exist, along side. Christians recognize ‘the begotten one’ and ‘the begetter’ as two distinct entities who are the same type of being and act interdependently as one union. Two perfect beings would seize to be perfect if they acted independently of each other, btw.
Blessings to you!
Gene,
We agree that we bow our knee to Jesus and call Him Lord to the glory of God his Father. What we don’t agree on is that YHVH is both God and Lord-two entities. Christians recognize that YHVH is both Father and Son-two entities. YHVH is one, a unity of two entities. Their Holy Spirit is their spirit that is united and extends from them while remaining in them at the same time.
Blessings to you Gene!
There is no difference. The son of someone is ontologically the same as his father.
Son of Man = Man (ontologically)
Son of God = God (ontologically)Again, you like all Trinitarians who claim to understand that doctrine and teach it, they make the same error, that of mixing up nature vs identity.
You see, we are called the sons of God and who in their right mind calls the redeemed YHWH?
You have no excuse KJ, because we are clearly taught that we will be like him and have a body like his. So if he is God them we are God?
And Jesus said: “yes are gods/theos”.
If you understood that there was only one God and he shares his nature so that we can participate in divine nature, then your confusion goes away.
But I also understand that it is nearly impossible for men to be free of indoctrination. But God is greater than any indoctrination.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
