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LU,
Just as there were false prophets during the time of the age of the Law of Moses there are false teachers today. These teachers lie you in order to remove your fears of the coming sword just like those teachers lied to the people then. A child of God is always suspicious of these that speak of peace as Satan delights in dressing himself in light and yet be out to cause destruction.
One of the teaching “Salvation happens once, when the person accepts Jesus as their LORD and Savior and His redemption of them by His death, burial, and resurrection”. You can test and find out this is a lie because the words of Acts tells us of those that did all those things “should be saved”. God did not say they are saved. Those that choose to live by their sinful nature nature will not be saved because even though they claim they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior with their mouths their are far from him.
Kerwin, I think Terraricca’s verse sum up the issue.
Ecc 12:13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.If anyone says the ten commandments were done away with they are lying. They are saying “It’s OK to serve another God, it’s OK to commit idolatry, it’s OK to take the Lord’s name in vain, it’s OK to forget the sabbath, it’s OK to disrespect your father and mother, it’s OK to murder, it’s OK to commit adultery, it’s OK to steal, it’s OK to bear false witness, and it’s OK to covet what your neighbor has. Scripture however says the opposite, and this should be basic stuff. It says neither the unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, sexually immoral, thieves, covetous, drunkards, abusive nor swindlers will inherited the kingdom of God (1Cor 6:10). The overcomers are those obey God’s commandments and have the faith of Jesus (Rev 14:12, Rev 12:17 and plenty more verses.)
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome., (1 John 5:3)
Now please could we move on and deal with each commandment one by one.
To all….. THE OVERCOMMERS ARE NOT THOSE WHO ON THEIR OWN STRENGHT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, There is none here that keep all the comandments all the time. Here is the LIARS.
1 JOHN 1:8…..”IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN, WE “DECIEVE” OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US”.
WHILE WE SHOULD ALL STRIVE TO KEEP GOD’S COMMANDMENTS WE “ALL” FAIL AT TIMES. No one here that i know of ever said we should break GOD’S COMMANDMENTS, why would anyone here even think that anyone is saying that? What kind of evil mind would imply people here ever would think that way?
We are uner the grace of GOD, PLACED THERE BY THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST , AND JUST AS SCRIPURE SAYS,”WHERE SIN did ABOUND, GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND”.
Eph 2:5…..Even when we were dead in sins, has qiuckened us together with CHRIST, (BY GRACE YOU ARE SAVED): 5, AND HAS RAISED US UP TOGETHER, AND MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS. 7, That in the ages to come he might shew the exceedin riches of his (GOD’S) “GRACE” in his (GOD’S) “KINDNESS” toward us through Christ Jesus. 8, For by “GRACE” ARE YOU “SAVED” through faith; and that “NOT” OF OR FROM “YOURSELVES” it is a “GIFT” FROM GOD: 9, not of “WORKS”, LEAST ANY MAN SHOULD “BOAST”. 10, FOR WE ARE “HIS” WORKMANSHIP, “CREATED” in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordainded that weshould walk in them.
1 John 1:7….But if we walk in the light, as he (GOD) is in the light, we have “fellowship” one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ “CLEANSES” US FROM “ALL” SIN.
WE ARE BEING “TRANSFORMED” BY THE “RENEWING” of our minds, by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD to do those good works, it is not from the “SELF”. IT IS A “CREATIVE” WORK OF GOD THAT CHANGES US AND KEEPS US, through the blood of JESUS CHRIST.
SO then because GRACE DOES ABOUND SHOULD WE SIN? “GOD FORBID”, NO ONE HERE HAVE I EVER HEARD SAY LETS SIN THAT GRACE SHOULD MORE ABOUND. ONLY AN EVIL MIND WOULD EVEN PERSUME THAT ANYONE HERE WOULD EVER SAY or THINK AS THAT. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
gene
1Jn 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
check your translation ,
THE OVERCOMMERS ARE NOT THOSE WHO ON THEIR OWN STRENGHT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS,
JN 16:33 “These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”
Jn 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
Jn 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.Jn 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
gene you seem to not understand the scriptures ;read the following ;
1JN 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
1JN 5:5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
REV 2:7 ‘ He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’REV 2:11 ‘ He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’
REV 2:17 ‘ He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’
REV 2:26 ‘ He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
REV 3:5 ‘ He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
REV 3:12 ‘ He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
REV 3:21 ‘ He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
REV 21:7 “ He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.UNLESS WE OVERCOME THE WORLD WE ARE NOT SAVED AND SO YOUR CLAIM IS A LIE
Terricca……what claim?i simply quoted the scriptures. What you are not uderstanding is that we are not “YET” “BORN” OF GOD,WE ARE “BEGOTTEN” OF GOD, THE “BERTH” OR “BORN” TAKES PLACE AT THE RESURECTION.
WHAT DOES IT SAY,LOOK CLOSELY OK, our “FATIH” “IN” Jesus Christ, is what overcomes the world. Not “OUR” OBEDIENCE TO THE “LAW”. MORE PROOF?
1 JOHN 5:18……WE KNOW THAT WHOSOEVER IS “BORN” OF GOD SINS NOT; “BUT” HE THAT IS “BEGOTTEN” OF GOD KEEPS HIMSELF, AND THAT WICKED ONE TOUCHES HIM NOT. Do you even know what that actually means Pierre?
SO ARE YOU “BORN” OF GOD “NOW”, OR ARE YOU “BEGOTTEN” OF God? Do you even know the difference, between begotten and born? PIERRE, IF you are already born of God THEN YOU DO NOT EVER SIN, RIGHT?, Can you honestly say that about your self?
Destorting the scripitures i quoted to meet you own theoligical dpgmas of “RIGHTIOUSNESS FROM THE “SELF”, is what a liar would do, to tare down the GRACE OF GOD, if you ask me. NO ONE HERE HAS SAID WE SHOULD NOT TRY TO KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS, even though we are under the grace of GOD. I HAVE NEVER SAID WE SHOULD SIN AND WE ARE NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR SINS. Who ever gave you that idea, you remind of those false accusers of PAUL WHO SAID THE SAME THING ABOUT HIM, SPEAKING EVIL OF HIM OUT OF THEIR EVIL HEARTS. THE PHARISEES IN JESUS TIME DID THE SAME TO HIM, CALLING HIM A GLUTTON AND A DRUNKARD AND A WINE BIBLOR. THE EYE OF THE EVIL ALWAYS BEHOLDS EVIL, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IS “IN” THEM. IMO
“WE ARE “SAVED” BY THE “GRACE” OF GOD AND THAT “NOT OF “ourselves” It is a gift from GOD”. You argument is with scripture not me Pierre.
You blab off, a bounch of stuff, that i never said or even hinted at, falsely accusing me of things i have never said or implied. You accusetorial spirit is the same now as when you started here, just like you Father who is also an accuser of the brethern, Spoken about in scriptures by our lord and brother, JESUS CHRIST. You need to ask yourself what is driving your motives, therein lies the evil. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
No one here that i know of ever said we should break GOD’S COMMANDMENTS, why would anyone here even think that anyone is saying that? What kind of evil mind would imply people here ever would think that way?
Gene, what is up with you. I was NOT implying that you or Kerwin or ANYONE HERE is breaking the ten commandments or teaching others to do so. Why would I THINK such a thing? I was simply making a clear point and hoping we could move on from whatever we are arguing about!
Gene, there are people all over the net and in the world who claim the ten commandments were “nailed to the cross” and done away with. Have you never heard them? Naturally, people go on the defense and jump to conclussions and misunderstand each other. I think that is what we are all doing.
Yes, If we say we are without sin we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. “If we confess our sins He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1John 1:18). We are cleansed from sin and we are told to sin no more. John goes on to say: “Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.” (1 John 3:4)
We are all sinners who were cleansed of sin. Yet, even after being cleansed of sin we fall (I have done so many times), and it’s often due to childish ignorance (jealousy, anger, temptations, etc). But, with God’s help we CAN overcome those childish and ignorant sins, though it’s not always easy and can take a while to master (as God said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? “If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”)
I wish to discuss the ten commandments one by one as I am interested in them. Scripture says: “These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. “You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. “You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. “You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.” (Deut 6:6)
Gene…I think you misunderstood a post of mine many weeks ago and have been holding onto that ever since. Well, I tell you now, you misunderstood my intentions. Please move on.
Peace and love to you, Gene.
“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:2)
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.” (Matthew 22:37)
Could we have things in our lives that are more important or are taking the place of God?
Do we love the Lord our God with all of our heart soul and mind?miia….. if i misunderstood you i am sorry, but i have not ever heard any here say the commandements were done away with. Not saying there are not people that do say that. The question to me is not should we keep the commandments of GOD, THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE KEEP THEM , IS IT BY OUR OWN HUMAN EFFORTS, OR BY WAY OF A NEW CREATION. Brought about by the spirit of GOD, creating in us a new heart and mind.
If we focuse on the commandments as what is saving us and making us right in GOD’S EYE WE COMPLETELY ARE MISSING THE BOAT.
Just as it says, “BY OBEDIENCE TO LAW SHALL “NO” FLESH BE “JUSTIFIED IN HIS (GOD’S) SIGHT. WHY? BECAUSE OBEDIENCE TO A LAW, CAN NEVER MAKE A PERSON RIGHT IN THEIR HEART. THE PROCESS OF LAWS NEVER MADE NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE UNDER THE LAW RIGHT EITHER.
THEREFORE GOD SAID, “I (GOD) WILL TAKE OUT OF THEM THE STONY HEART AND GIVE THEM A SOFT HEART, AND I (GOD) WILL WRITE MY LAWTHEIR inward parts, and then shall they be my people and I will be their GOD”.
obviously if GOD CHANGES OUR HEARTS AND MINDS to think like him, we will think and walk as He does. And so we “will” be keeping his commandements by that new spirit nature given to us by HIM. But this was not done by human efforts but by GRACE of the living GOD. Brought to us by the blood of JESUS CHRIST. IMO
SO the question is not or never was, should we keep the commandments, but “HOW” WE “KEEP” THEM ? IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Gene, yes i understand you. It’s not a matter of IF we keep the commandments because that should not be a question, it’s rather HOW we keep the commandments, which is GOD takes away our stony heart and gives us a new heart (soft heart). So, it’s through what God has done for us how we are able to keep the commandments. Is that what you are meaning. If so, good, i agree, and we could talk more about that.
miia……. Thats exactly what i am saying, it’s never about should we keep the commandments, it’s “HOW” WE “KEEP” THEM. IS IT BY THE WAY LAW WORKS (through forced compliance) through the operation of “FEAR” brought on by the penalties of breaking them, as they were given at mount sini, an obediance through the operation of FEAR or through a NEW NATURE created by the SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD.
EXO 20:20…. 19, And they said unto Moses, Speak you unto us, and we will hear: but let not GOD speak with us, lest we die. 20 And Moses said unto the people, fear not: for GOD IS COME TO PROVE YOU, AND THAT HIS “FEAR” may be before your faces, that you sin not.
But we are told Heb 12:18-23 …..For you are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness and tempest 19, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to the many more: 20, For they could not endure that which was commanded, and if so much as a beast touched the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 21, And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, i eexceedingly fear and quake:
22, But you have come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living GOD, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to THE SPIRITS OFJUST MEN “Made” PERFECT, 24 And to JESUS the mediator of the “NEW” COVENANT, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better thing than that of Abel.
I believe we do see this the same way miia.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
Gene, yes you are right and I guess I did come across all “legalistic” in my manor (apologies to all).
Without a heart of peace and non-judgment of others, we obey God’s laws ourselves with the risk of becoming self righteous and eventually hypocritical.
We need the commands written on a heart eventually made soft by God.
This would be known by the continual fruit of the spirit being love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness and self control. “Against such things there is no law”. (Not that the law is done away with, but those fruits of the spirit cover the summary of the whole law that being love of God and love of neighbor).
miia
Without a heart of peace and non-judgment of others,
non judgment of others mean that we will not make a difference in our hearts between the rich /poor/believers /unbelievers/for it is not for us to judge of what God will do with them ,but we have to judge the condition around us and what touches us and if we can prevented it but yet stay peaceful and also judge the spirit of those that live with or around us ,for we can only follow Christ and his father ,but above all our lips should always speak the truth or keep silence ,this mean living the truth not just say it ,
Miia,
Kerwin, I think Terraricca’s verse sum up the issue.
Ecc 12:13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.The sum of God’s commandments is to love your fellow as God loves you. The ten commands are but a few dots in that picture. There is not one word written in the ten commandments about giving to the needy and yet that is something that Christians and Jews are expected to do. Only adultery of all the sexual immoral action is banned in the ten commandments and yet Paul opposed homosexuality and other sexual immoral actions. The ten commandments do not address the sin of heresy and yet Scripture teaches us it is an action of the flesh. The commandment of the new covenant is live by the teachings of the Spirit and so bear its fruit and not be the flesh, the nature of the beast within each human being.
You are speaking of the ten commandments as if they are the whole and that is based on Scripture though it is a tradition among some of those that call themselves Christians. Even if were speaking you are speaking of the Covenant of Mt Sinai and not covenant that Jesus sealed with his own blood and God empowered by raising Jesus from the dead and setting him on his throne in heaven.
It is not wise to try to put new wine into and old skin. Jesus told us that.
Kerwin……HE THAT LOVES HIS NEIGHBOR from his heart “IS” giving to him. How say you, it is not written in the law?
The blind are NOT able to see the Spirit of the commandments, they only see the letter of the law. Have you not read, “the LAW IS “SPIRITUAL”, BUT WE ARE CARNEL. THESE TWO ARE OPPISIT ONE ANOTHER. SO are those who only see the commandments from a carnel or fleshly point of view.
In order to truly keep the commandments, you must be born from above. All other only make a show based on their knowledge, not on the heart being changed to actually becoming the commandements of God yourself.
Two wayS, one by personal efforts through “self” works, the other by works of the SPIRIT, which works through the changing of the heart. The words from peoples mouths show the difference between the works of law (forced compliance driven by fear) or the works of the SPIRIT OF GOD, THROUGH A COMPLETE “NEW” CREATION OF GOD,BROUGHT ABOUT BY HIS SPIRIT ABIDING IN THE PERSON.
WHY ARE YOU AND PIERRE, arguing against what me and miia ate saying?
peace and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
Miia……..You have it EXACTLY RIGHT, do not let others change your mind, continue to trust in GOD THE FATHER, HE will keep you. Always remember this,
“MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU AND “KEEP” YOU, MAY HE MAKE HIS FACE TO SHINE ON YOU, AND BE GRACEIOUS UNTO YOU, MAY HE LIFT UP HIS COUNTINANCE UPON YOU AND, GIVE YOU PEACE.”
WE ARE A New CREATION, “CREATED” unto GOOD WORKS. We are not of tbe letter, but of SPIRIT. Therefore it is “GOD THAT WORKS “IN” US BOTH TO “WILL” AND DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
kerwin
The sum of God’s commandments is to love your fellow as God loves you. The ten commands are but a few dots in that picture. There is not one word written in the ten commandments about giving to the needy and yet that is something that Christians and Jews are expected to do. Only adultery of all the sexual immoral action is banned in the ten commandments and yet Paul opposed homosexuality and other sexual immoral actions. The ten commandments do not address the sin of heresy and yet Scripture teaches us it is an action of the flesh. The commandment of the new covenant is live by the teachings of the Spirit and so bear its fruit and not be the flesh, the nature of the beast within each human being.
You are speaking of the ten commandments as if they are the whole and that is based on Scripture though it is a tradition among some of those that call themselves Christians. Even if were speaking you are speaking of the Covenant of Mt Sinai and not covenant that Jesus sealed with his own blood and God empowered by raising Jesus from the dead and setting him on his throne in heaven.
It is not wise to try to put new wine into and old skin. Jesus told us that.
you got it wrong ;Jesus stated only two commandments and said that those two were the foundation of them all ;and so ALL SINS ARE INCLUDED IN THOSE TWO ;EITHER YOU BREAK UP THE ONE OF GOD OR YOU BREAK THE ONE THAT DEALS WITH OUR FELLOW MAN
non judgment of others mean that we will not make a difference in our hearts between the rich /poor/believers /unbelievers/for it is not for us to judge of what God will do with them ,but we have to judge the condition around us and what touches us and if we can prevented it but yet stay peaceful and also judge the spirit of those that live with or around us ,for we can only follow Christ and his father ,but above all our lips should always speak the truth or keep silence ,this mean living the truth not just say it ,
T,
Regarding those close to us: If we judge them we risk pushing them away. By accepting them as they are we can still feel love in our hearts no matter what they doing and they can always come to us knowing that our heart and mind does not under certain conditions turn to stone.
Kerwin.
The sum of God’s commandments is to love your fellow as God loves you. The ten commands are but a few dots in that picture. There is not one word written in the ten commandments about giving to the needy and yet that is something that Christians and Jews are expected to do. Only adultery of all the sexual immoral action is banned in the ten commandments and yet Paul opposed homosexuality and other sexual immoral actions. The ten commandments do not address the sin of heresy and yet Scripture teaches us it is an action of the flesh. The commandment of the new covenant is live by the teachings of the Spirit and so bear its fruit and not be the flesh, the nature of the beast within each human being.
Good points.
You are speaking of the ten commandments as if they are the whole and that is based on Scripture though it is a tradition among some of those that call themselves Christians. Even if were speaking you are speaking of the Covenant of Mt Sinai and not covenant that Jesus sealed with his own blood and God empowered by raising Jesus from the dead and setting him on his throne in heaven.
It is not wise to try to put new wine into and old skin. Jesus told us that.
Not quite following you here sorry.
Gene, thanks for your last two posts. I am learning things from you that i never thought of before 🙂
miia
T,
Regarding those close to us: If we judge them we risk pushing them away. By accepting them as they are we can still feel love in our hearts no matter what they doing and they can always come to us knowing that our heart and mind does not under certain conditions turn to stone.
as i said we cannot judge them as only God judges who is worthy of him , but we have to daily judge all things around us but this does not mean that we have to react either violently and hard;no that is not what i said we have to keep peace with love as God love us ,when our children of family say things that are not to be said ,we just think and find a way to answering it in the most peaceful way for the glory of God for that is the life that a true believer as chosen to live if not then what difference does it make ?
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