The soul

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,08:03)

Hi GB, .Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. So what is thrown into the lake of fire?

Nick ……. We are talking about the first death, not the second one, or don't you believe there is a real first “DEATH” it appears you don't truly believe there is a real FIRST DEATH. But you believe there is a “REAL” second DEATH. So to you the First “death” is not a real “death”,but the second “DEATH” IS do I have you right, One is real DEATH, the other isn't ?

Remember Lazarus when Jesus said he was asleep, and we must go and wake him , his disciples  said, it is good for him to sleep ,then what did Jesus say. Lazarus is “DEAD”,  They then CLEARLY understood the difference of being a sleep or being DEAD. Why can't you is it that you may have bought into the pagan and false religious teachings of a person still alive and going about doing things after he is dies ?

There obviously would be no need of a resurrection of the dead if that were the case, now would it Brother.

Peace and love to you and yours……………..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Where was Jesus after he had died and before he was raised.
He told us he had not returned to the father.
Did he not exist?
Jn20

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
What part of Lazarus was asleep?

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
There are two deaths
One is relevant only to the unsaved.

Why was Paul concerned about being naked without the new body.
What can be naked?

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
What is it that sleeps in death?
.John 11:13
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

.Acts 13:36
For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

1 Thessalonians 5:10
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,08:20)

Hi GB, Where was Jesus after he had died and before he was raised. He told us he had not returned to the father. Did he not exist? Jn20 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Nick …… Go back and reread my last post to you, oK.

Yes Jesus' soul was I the grave DEAD, Just as he Said HE was, need proof. “I was “DEAD” and and now ALIVE for ever more. SO what do you think was JESUS, just lying to us , Trying to deceive us because he was not TRYLY Dead, Satan would love us to believe that Nick.

JESUS WAS RAISED BY GOD THE FATHER FROM THE “DEAD” no two ways about.

NOW if the spirit of him who raised CHRIST from the DEAD, dwell in you it shall ALSO QUICKEN bring back to LIFE your MORTAL (DEAD) BODY.

Why so we can come to be a “LIVING SOUL” once again.

Peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
It all depends on what dead means
Lazarus was dead but just sleeping

Jesus was dead but alive in the Spirit and visiting the spirits in prison

You have addressed almost none of the scriptures offered
Do you ignore them?

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Jesus said Lazarus was asleep and then said he was dead.
The meanings are equivalent for the LIVING

[terraricca]

Gene

Quote

Pierre our ONLY HOPE for life again after DEATH is if GOD our FATHER creates another BODY for US and Put the BREATH of LIFE BACK into IT, for us ever live again brother.

to make the scriptures truthful we have to accept that the body and the soul are two different things ;and when we die from the lost of our flesh we do not lost our soul but we are given by God a place to go (i do not know what it looks like ) understand that the flesh can be killed or destroyed by men but not the soul ,

scriptures also says that the soul that sins is the soul that will die ; this to be true as to be true when the soul is no longer under the judgement or curse of Adam ,so it should apply after the resurrection ,not before because we are already condemn by the loads of sin we have done ,right

and understand that the soul is like the driver and the car is the body (flesh) the body are the means for the driver to go places ,and so it is with the body ,the body is carrying the soul who drive it to go were he wanted to go ,this is why it says THE SOUL THAT SINS AND NOT THE FLESH THAT SINS ;

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2014,03:03)

Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,07:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2014,00:59) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,05:43) Gene, psuché is the Koine Greek word for soul but it is also the word for “the vital breath, breath of life” so perhaps the soul and breath are one.  I asked you about that earlier. Kerwin ……I agree with that, Yes that is exactly what we “ARE” it takes a BODY with the breath of LIFE to be a LIVING SOUL, and without a BODY “AND” the breath of LIFE in IT, you have NO LIVING SOUL, you are a DEAD SOUL when the breath of life leaves you. Gone for ever , NO SOUL left, a man can kill our Soul, but he can not “DESTROY” ONLY GOD can by simply leaving the body in the grave! but he can also resurrect us a new body and add the breath of life back into it and we again become a LIVING SOUL, not a DEAD one. I have said many times here it is absolutely crucial we attain unto the resurrection of the DEAD, in order to continue to live as a living soul again. Just as Jesus had to.  IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………..gene Gene, If soul is the same as the breath of life then God breathed a soul into Adam's body and then it first became a living soul so in that case the soul is not the combination of the breath and body but it is instead the breath of life.  That disagrees with what you have been saying. Kerwin……I did not say they were the same thing , what I said was a “ LIVING”,  SOUL is,  a BODY “WITH”  the breath of LIFE IN it. These two things equals a SOUL that IS “LIVING”,  remove one of them and you no longer have a “LIVING” Soul. Just that simple , nothing complicated about it . IMO Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene

Gene,

Did you understand that I pointed out that the Koine Greek language use the same word for both the breath of life and for the soul?

[journey42]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,07:44)

Hi GB, What are these vessels? 2Tim2 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. Do these vessels disappear?

Nick

These vessels are men. Some will shine brighter than others at the resurrection according to their measure of the holy spirit. Some vessels will be destroyed as they were found to be for dishonour.

Asking if these vessels disappear? Only the ones who dishonoured will be rejected. They can be of no use.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (journey42 @ June 11 2014,01:21)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2014,06:36) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,04:52) Gene, I have asked you twice because your answer did not seem to resolve the difference between your doctrine on this issue and Jesus' words. Jesus quoted Jehovah's words that he is the God of Abraham, that he spoke even knowing Abraham had died previously.  So God is the one that testified he was the God of both Abraham, who was dead, and of those that were yet living.  Jesus pronounced God was not the God of the dead.  How can both what God said and what Jesus said be true if Abraham was dead in all ways? Fro Can you state your resolution to that dilemma so that I can understand how it could be? Kerwin,,,,,,,, when those words were spoken by God himself he was and is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all who believe and trust in him. But the dead are truly dead, but that isn't saying their spirit is dead, because it goes back to God who gave it in the first place. So if you are addressing the spirit it could be said to still be alive even if it is in asleep state, .and in that sense God is the God of those living spirits, But we are not addressing spirits , but LIVING SOULS,  that you and Nick say are Separate from the “BODY” , and the SPIRIT,  that is our issue, I am not speaking about the Spirit, I know a spirit can exist outside of a body. I have no problem with that, never did.. Kerwin,,,, A LIVING soul “IS” a BODY WITH SPIRIT Breathed into its nostrils by GOD, nothing more and nothing less, IMO None of you have produced one scripture, that says, a Soul is still alive after the BODY DIES, speculations are not clear facts Kerwin, neither are true ASSUMPTIONS. Kerwin this whole problem is resolve in Genesis, go there and take it word for word and come back and tell us what it says brother. Peace and love to you and yours …………………………gene That's right Gene, Abraham worshiped the true God, our creator.  He did not worship any other God.  The scripture that states God is not the God of the dead, but the living is a clue to us that the dead sleep, and are not floating around somewhere.  They are reserved to be raised at the appointed time.  Abraham served God whilst he was alive, and we cannot serve God in the grave, when we are dead, because time stops for that period, and we cannot do anything. Genesis 2:7   And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul Man does not become a living soul, until his heart starts pumping and there is physical life in him. The soul and the body is connected with the breath of life.  This scripture is clear, and I agree with you.  W e will be judged for what was in our soul during our days alive. What type of spirit we had in us.  The spirit of God, or the spirit of man which is in opposition to God's ways..  The soul is the essence of what we produce, whether good or bad, and this we take to the grave with us, and if the soul is good will be resurrected at the appointed time, if not, destroyed.

joueney……..You have it right. the soul that sins, “it' shall “die”. Again all have sinned and came short of the Glory of God

The word DIE comes from the Hebrew word ( gava, or gaw-vah )

a primitive root, – to breathe out, that is ( by implication) expire:- die, be dead, give up the ghost. PARISH

But some believe God did not mean what said. They like Satan say you shall not surely die. “PARISH”  you are still alive when you die , so God does not have to resurrect anyone for them to continue to live, Jesus being resurrected from the dead was a lie according to them, it was not necessary for him to be resurrected to continue to live.

peace and love to you and yours………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,08:25)

Hi GB, What part of Lazarus was asleep?

Nick….when you see someone sleeping are they the same as a dead person. To me there is a big difference like the ones sleeping are still breathing, the dead are not. They are not the same thing.

common sense and the spirit of truth should tell you that Nick…………..imo

peace and love to you and yours……………gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
If Jesus said Lazarus was asleep and then said he had died your argument is with him

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,12:51)

Hi GB, If Jesus said Lazarus was asleep and then said he had died your argument is with him

Nick…….not really, I also believe. Jesus said , Lazarus was DEAD ,just as he said, and I like the disciples, know the difference between being asleep and being dead, Nick,question is do you.?

Believe me Nick they are not the same. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB
Jn11
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Are you saying Jesus did not know the difference??
How far will you go to hold onto your dogma?

[kerwin]

Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,04:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2014,03:03) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,07:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2014,00:59) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,05:43) Gene, psuché is the Koine Greek word for soul but it is also the word for “the vital breath, breath of life” so perhaps the soul and breath are one.  I asked you about that earlier. Kerwin ……I agree with that, Yes that is exactly what we “ARE” it takes a BODY with the breath of LIFE to be a LIVING SOUL, and without a BODY “AND” the breath of LIFE in IT, you have NO LIVING SOUL, you are a DEAD SOUL when the breath of life leaves you. Gone for ever , NO SOUL left, a man can kill our Soul, but he can not “DESTROY” ONLY GOD can by simply leaving the body in the grave! but he can also resurrect us a new body and add the breath of life back into it and we again become a LIVING SOUL, not a DEAD one. I have said many times here it is absolutely crucial we attain unto the resurrection of the DEAD, in order to continue to live as a living soul again. Just as Jesus had to.  IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………..gene Gene, If soul is the same as the breath of life then God breathed a soul into Adam's body and then it first became a living soul so in that case the soul is not the combination of the breath and body but it is instead the breath of life.  That disagrees with what you have been saying. Kerwin……I did not say they were the same thing , what I said was a “ LIVING”,  SOUL is,  a BODY “WITH”  the breath of LIFE IN it. These two things equals a SOUL that IS “LIVING”,  remove one of them and you no longer have a “LIVING” Soul. Just that simple , nothing complicated about it . IMO Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene Gene, Did you understand that I pointed out that the Koine Greek language use the same word for both the breath of life and for the soul?

Gene,

I have not heard your answer yet.

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Fear Him Who can destroy body and soul in gehenna.
Mt 10 .28

This is how the soul that sins can die

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,17:32)

Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,04:50) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2014,03:03) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,07:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2014,00:59) Quote (kerwin @ June 11 2014,05:43) Gene, psuché is the Koine Greek word for soul but it is also the word for “the vital breath, breath of life” so perhaps the soul and breath are one.  I asked you about that earlier. Kerwin ……I agree with that, Yes that is exactly what we “ARE” it takes a BODY with the breath of LIFE to be a LIVING SOUL, and without a BODY “AND” the breath of LIFE in IT, you have NO LIVING SOUL, you are a DEAD SOUL when the breath of life leaves you. Gone for ever , NO SOUL left, a man can kill our Soul, but he can not “DESTROY” ONLY GOD can by simply leaving the body in the grave! but he can also resurrect us a new body and add the breath of life back into it and we again become a LIVING SOUL, not a DEAD one. I have said many times here it is absolutely crucial we attain unto the resurrection of the DEAD, in order to continue to live as a living soul again. Just as Jesus had to.  IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………..gene Gene, If soul is the same as the breath of life then God breathed a soul into Adam's body and then it first became a living soul so in that case the soul is not the combination of the breath and body but it is instead the breath of life.  That disagrees with what you have been saying. Kerwin……I did not say they were the same thing , what I said was a “ LIVING”,  SOUL is,  a BODY “WITH”  the breath of LIFE IN it. These two things equals a SOUL that IS “LIVING”,  remove one of them and you no longer have a “LIVING” Soul. Just that simple , nothing complicated about it . IMO Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene Gene, Did you understand that I pointed out that the Koine Greek language use the same word for both the breath of life and for the soul? Gene,   I have not heard your answer yet.

Kerwin………I do see that, and not only that but soul is also translated as spirit many times. But the truth is a “LIVING SOUL” is a BODY with the BREATH OF LIFE In IT' S nostrils . Genesis says it clearly, but man has added their own addition to what it clearly says, as proved here.

God who can not LIE said “THE “SOUL” THAT SINS, “IT” SHALL DIE (PARISH). ALL have SINNED, ALL, have or Will DIE, and come short of the GOLRY OF GOD. And again ” it is appointed unto man once to “DIE” (PARISH), then after that, the judgement.

Many think God lies , and we “TRULY DO NOT “DIE”, because our SOULS are STILL ALIVE WHEN we DIE, we are still active in some place talking to one another and communicating with each other, alive like normal, in this way they are calling God a LIAR, they would rather believe SATAN who said , “YOU SURELY WILL “NOT” DIE (parish) . They say no you are not really DEAD, your just asleep, making God into a liar.

Kerwin bottom line is, does YOUR GOD LIE, or NOT? I for one believe what he said, he meant, the choice is yours. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,19:24)

Hi GB, Fear Him Who can destroy body and soul in gehenna. Mt 10 .28 This is how the soul that sins can die

Nick…….( BOTH) two things BODY AND SOUL OR SPIRIT , look up the word used there for SOUL. And come back and tell us what it says. OK?

Peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

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