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Pierre,
Gene has a good point here. Part of Jesus's mission was to be the first to be ressurected from the dead to eternal life. When Jesus died on the tree he was dead as the proverbial doornail. He was as dead as you and I will be when we die. He, however, being who he is will not experience the second death because he has already passed God's judgement.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ Mar. 23 2011,00:54) Pierre,
Gene has a good point here. Part of Jesus's mission was to be the first to be ressurected from the dead to eternal life. When Jesus died on the tree he was dead as the proverbial doornail. He was as dead as you and I will be when we die. He, however, being who he is will not experience the second death because he has already passed God's judgement.
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
wispringyes ,it is true but so is everyone else that accept Christ and is part of the first resurection.
Pierre
Terraricca…………….Don't you believe Jesus was truly dead?. It would make him a liar if he was not dead, because he said he was right?. And you and I both know it say “the dead Know nothing in the day they die their thoughts parish”> If your thoughts parish you parish, because nothing more makes you you then you thoughts. We are in a state of being Perished when we die, we have neither branch or root connected to life and unless the LORD GOD recreate us again by forming a body and adding Spirit back into it we would never ever exist again and that was the same for Jesus also Brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 23 2011,07:29) Terraricca…………….Don't you believe Jesus was truly dead?. It would make him a liar if he was not dead, because he said he was right?. And you and I both know it say “the dead Know nothing in the day they die their thoughts parish”> If your thoughts parish you parish, because nothing more makes you you then you thoughts. We are in a state of being Perished when we die, we have neither branch or root connected to life and unless the LORD GOD recreate us again by forming a body and adding Spirit back into it we would never ever exist again and that was the same for Jesus also Brother. peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
geneyou do not answer my question,and you do not understand what dead we talking about,you are very carnal oriented.
the body dies but so is the seed but it dies to live better and more productive ,if the seed was totally dead as you say then it could not produce anything does it .then it would have been rotten.(bad seed)
Pierre
Terriccia …………You confusing the SEED Metaphor with the state of the dead, and in fact even a Seed must DIE to ITSELF or it a bides ALONE right? What Jesus was talking about in that Metaphor was that if a Man does not put Himself to death (spiritually) or His WILL to death as Jesus did He abides ALONE as a separate being . but if He does Put Himself (his WILL) to death in obedience to GOD as Jesus did then GOD'S Spirit which is the Spirit of Life will come into him and that Spirit that Abides (on) Him will Bring to Life HIS Mortified (BODY) that is the resurrection spoken of. GOD is the Source of Life Not a Man or His Soul. The body dies and man ceases to exist any longer as a separate being , His spirit (intellect) goes back to God who gave it, his body corrupts in the grave and he is finished as a separate life form. Now when GOD regenerates HIM again, GOD first makes a Body and then add HIS spirit back into it and man becomes a living soul again with a BODY and SPIRIT and GOD'S Spirit, He is never alone again. “THAT GOD MAY BE (IN) all and through all”, Some have already recieved the earnest of the Spirit NOW and this same Spirit will raise Him Up at there return of Jesus, but until then He will remain DEAD if he dies Waiting for the day that will be the REDEMPTION OF HIS BODY> Maybe this will help you.
Rom 8:22-23……> For we know that the (WHOLE) creation groans and travels in pain together untill now 23..> NOTICE Pierre, “And not only they but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of OUR BODY.
Hope that helps you Pierre.
Peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
all
1Pe 2:25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
this is not the body of flesh.Pierre
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 23 2011,00:54) Pierre,
Gene has a good point here. Part of Jesus's mission was to be the first to be ressurected from the dead to eternal life. When Jesus died on the tree he was dead as the proverbial doornail. He was as dead as you and I will be when we die. He, however, being who he is will not experience the second death because he has already passed God's judgement.
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
wispringno resurrection was the second part you first have to die to be resurrected
Pierre
Pierre! You are right, that when Jesus died He went back to where He was before.
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus body had to stay dead in order for the ransom be in effect.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The Spirit and Soul without the body can exist. Jesus is prove of that. It is not known what God did with His body. If He was resurrected with the body IMO the ransom would not be a ransom at all. Whether it is Spirit and Soul, I don't know of any Scripture that shows that to be true, except Genesis.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And this too is vague. Is the breath of life the Spirit in man? Or is it the Soul? Or is it both? Or ias it the body?
We have several Scriptures in Psalms mainly that shows that the Soul is the Spirit.
I also looked Soul up in our Ransom House Dictionary it says this
1 the principal life, feelings, thought, and action in man, regarded as a distinct entity separate of the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of man as distinct from the physical part.
2 the spiritual part regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come. arguing the immortality of the soul.There are 10 parts, to much for me. I however found number 1 most interesting….number 2 I don't know about happiness or misery right after death, since Scripture tells us all are sleepin g in the grave until Jesus return….
No matter what there is a Spirit and body, and Soul. There are to many Scriptures that show it to be the Soul being part of the Spirit in man…..
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,17:47) Pierre! You are right, that when Jesus died He went back to where He was before. Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus body had to stay dead in order for the ransom be in effect.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The Spirit and Soul without the body can exist. Jesus is prove of that. It is not known what God did with His body. If He was resurrected with the body IMO the ransom would not be a ransom at all. Whether it is Spirit and Soul, I don't know of any Scripture that shows that to be true, except Genesis.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And this too is vague. Is the breath of life the Spirit in man? Or is it the Soul? Or is it both? Or ias it the body?
We have several Scriptures in Psalms mainly that shows that the Soul is the Spirit.
I also looked Soul up in our Ransom House Dictionary it says this
1 the principal life, feelings, thought, and action in man, regarded as a distinct entity separate of the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of man as distinct from the physical part.
2 the spiritual part regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come. arguing the immortality of the soul.There are 10 parts, to much for me. I however found number 1 most interesting….number 2 I don't know about happiness or misery right after death, since Scripture tells us all are sleepin g in the grave until Jesus return….
No matter what there is a Spirit and body, and Soul. There are to many Scriptures that show it to be the Soul being part of the Spirit in man…..
Peace and Love Irene
hi Irenehow are you ,I hope you and Georg are good.
yes the flesh is the box in the box is our soul that God made for us, but in our soul there is our operating system if you want and so it is us that do all works and decisions ,and it goes on the hard drive of our soul, and God give the power so that we can live,this is his spirit
wen we die it is our box and God remove his power from the box and now only our soul is remain, but it is asleep the only thing it needs is a box and power,both are in the hand of God
resurrection means new box and more power how long depend if we are in the first or second resurrection but at the end of it all we will have power supplied forever and a box that last forever.
this is the best explanation that i can give.
Pierre
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 22 2011,00:20) I did not say that Kerwin. I said: Hi everyone,
OK. Try this line of reason on for size.
1.) The Body is a thing
2.) The Spirit is a thing
3.) The Living Soul is a definition or description of what occurs when thing #1 and #2 are combined by Gods doing.
Hi Wispring,I'm with Kerwin on this one. It sure sounds to me like you're saying there can't be a soul unless there's a body. As if “soul” happens only when body meets spirit.
We have been showing scriptures that list the soul as something completely separate from the body. (Gen 35:18, 1 Kings 17:21, Matt 10:28, 1 Thess 5:23)
mike
To All,
OK. I was wrong on that line of reason. It was a theory and wanted help running it up against scripture. Thanks!With Love and Respect,
WispringTo Everyone that helped,
To be honest, until I joined this site and did the scriptural cross-reference process, I was always under the impression that body, spirit, and soul were 3 aspects of the whole self. From readings of metaphysical materials it is always presented in this fashion. I was ready to change my concept if it could be proven via scripture. Once again, thanks for the help.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 23 2011,13:43) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,17:47) Pierre! You are right, that when Jesus died He went back to where He was before. Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus body had to stay dead in order for the ransom be in effect.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The Spirit and Soul without the body can exist. Jesus is prove of that. It is not known what God did with His body. If He was resurrected with the body IMO the ransom would not be a ransom at all. Whether it is Spirit and Soul, I don't know of any Scripture that shows that to be true, except Genesis.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And this too is vague. Is the breath of life the Spirit in man? Or is it the Soul? Or is it both? Or ias it the body?
We have several Scriptures in Psalms mainly that shows that the Soul is the Spirit.
I also looked Soul up in our Ransom House Dictionary it says this
1 the principal life, feelings, thought, and action in man, regarded as a distinct entity separate of the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of man as distinct from the physical part.
2 the spiritual part regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come. arguing the immortality of the soul.There are 10 parts, to much for me. I however found number 1 most interesting….number 2 I don't know about happiness or misery right after death, since Scripture tells us all are sleepin g in the grave until Jesus return….
No matter what there is a Spirit and body, and Soul. There are to many Scriptures that show it to be the Soul being part of the Spirit in man…..
Peace and Love Irene
hi Irenehow are you ,I hope you and Georg are good.
yes the flesh is the box in the box is our soul that God made for us, but in our soul there is our operating system if you want and so it is us that do all works and decisions ,and it goes on the hard drive of our soul, and God give the power so that we can live,this is his spirit
wen we die it is our box and God remove his power from the box and now only our soul is remain, but it is asleep the only thing it needs is a box and power,both are in the hand of God
resurrection means new box and more power how long depend if we are in the first or second resurrection but at the end of it all we will have power supplied forever and a box that last forever.
this is the best explanation that i can give.
Pierre
Hi! Georg is fine, He is working again, part time. We are helping our only Daughter get through College. Once She graduates, which should be next month, I hope Georg will quit again. I gotten used to having Him Home all the time, He has spoiled me, doing all the cooking etc. How are you and your wife doing OK???
take care…
Peace and Love IreneWispring………….Just look up the Hebrew word for Soul and the look at all the scriptures using that word and see what they say and you will find out the Soul is the (COMPLETE PERSON), which is a BODY and SPIRIT. Genesis, does not say a man became a LIVING SOUL,(NEPHESH) , by having a BODY and A SOUL and A SPIRIT as they assume, Scripture does not say that, it simply say GOD made a BODY and Breath the Breath of Life INTO IT and then MAN became a “LIVING” Soul. The GREEKS divided up the word Nephesh (Soul) into two Parts (Pusico) and (pneuma) because they believed in demons and people continue living after they die as many People here do. But Jesus Said In revelations “HE WAS DEAD” and (NOW) He was alive for ever more. He did not say he was still alive when he was in the grave as some kind of SOUL LIFE, that is PURE PAGAN GARBAGE TEACHINGS of MYSTERY RELIGIONS> Be careful of Some here they are experts at Twisting up scripture to meet there MYSTERY RELIGIOUS TEACHINGS> GO back and read what David posted and all the scripture he used and put them together , “THE SUM OF GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH”. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..Gene
Hi Tim,
Fear not. I am just leaving the line of reasoning behind.Quote Hi everyone,
OK. Try this line of reason on for size.
1.) The Body is a thing
2.) The Spirit is a thing
3.) The Living Soul is a definition or description of what occurs when thing #1 and #2 are combined by Gods doing.
With Love and Respect,
WispringHi Gene,
Do you accept that God has a soul as per?:Quote GOD HAS SOUL
1Sa 2:35; Ps 11:5; 24:4; Pr 6:16; Isa 1:14; 42:1; Jer 5:9; 6:8; 12:7; 14:19; 15:1; 32:41; 51:14; La 3:20; Eze 23:18; Am 6:8; Mt 12:18; Heb 10:38(borrowed from David's post)
I submit that by reasonable and rational thought processes if you accept God has soul and does not have a body then the formula “body+spirit=soul” is not fulfilled in a harmonizing manner throughout scripture. Even Jesus taught us that God is spirit. If somehow it could be shown from scripture that that God has a body like the ucorrupted spiritual bodies that man is said to aquire in scriptures then perhaps the formula holds true. Did you read Paladin's post? I humbly submit that these are words of wisdom.Quote I really do not think our soul's salvation depends upon our opinion about the meaning of “psuchee.” It seems to me it is far deeper than defining words, and goes at least into how we practice what we believe. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself” will be a much more defining moment at the judgment, than “what does the doctrine about love your neighbor mean?” With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ Mar. 23 2011,17:13) I submit that by reasonable and rational thought processes if you accept God has soul and does not have a body then the formula “body+spirit=soul” is not fulfilled in a harmonizing manner throughout scripture.
That's quite a conundrum for you, eh Gene?mike
Hi Everyone,
Just some deep thoughts here not backed by scripture regarding soul. God has a soul and he is the ultimate and infinite pattern of all things created and uncreated. He decides to create a physical universe so he goes to his catalog of patterns and starts using patterns to create things. In mans' science we have different kingdoms of life based on pattern. In Gods' catalog are the the patterns of all things created and uncreated, living and non-living. This catalog of patterns is of God and therefore eternal. Some patterns are judged by God and some are not for there performance or way of living when manifested in the physical realm. What all these things are I do not know. I do know that humans or man is judged. So the (man-soul/pattern) is individualized in a person via body and spirit. If this person is judged worthy by God's standards then the induvidual gains the reward of eternal life.
Just some pondering.With Love and Respect,
WispringWispring………NO GOD (a Spirit) does not have a Soul , BUT the LORD YHWH, as a COMPLETE BEING, does, Just as a BODY and SPIRIT is a Soul, a Mans COMPETE Being. Soul is the sum total of what a Beings IS> Scripture even say Animals are Souls and Fish also. A animal is a living Soul, why because it has a Body with Spirit in it. Wispring this is Just the way i now see it>
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
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