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Body of Moses:
Jude 1:3 Beloved, all diligence using to write to you concerning the common salvation, I had necessity to write to you, exhorting to agonize for the faith once delivered to the saints, 4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord — Jesus Christ — denying, 5 and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; 6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before — an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering. 8 In like manner, nevertheless, those dreaming also the flesh indeed do defile, and lordship they put away, and dignities they speak evil of, 9 yet Michael, the chief messenger, when, with the devil contending, he was disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring up an evil-speaking judgment, but said, `The Lord rebuke thee!’ 10 and these, as many things indeed as they have not known, they speak evil of; and as many things as naturally (as the irrational beasts) they understand, in these they are corrupted; 11 wo to them! because in the way of Cain they did go on, and to the deceit of Balaam for reward they did rush, and in the gainsaying of Korah they did perish.
What is the scripture referring to when speaking of the body of Moses? Is the scripture saying that Michael and a supernatural being argued over the dead body of Moses?
Deuteronomy 34:5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. 6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day. 7 Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished. 8 And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days. So the days of weeping and mourning for Moses ended.
There WAS NO dispute over the literal body of Moses. Scripture tells us that God buried him. Really, what would have been up for dispute? A dead corpse rots no matter where it is buried.
As the Old Testament shows us what happened with the literal body of Moses I believe it also tells us along with the New, what Jude was referring to.
1 Corinthians 2:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
Acts 7:37 “This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.‘ 38 This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us,
John 5:46 for if ye were believing Moses, ye would have been believing me, for he wrote concerning me; 47 but if his writings ye believe not, how shall ye believe my sayings?’
John 9: 27 He answered them,
I told you already, and ye did not hear; why again do ye wish to hear? do ye also wish to become his disciples?' <strong>28</strong> They reviled him, therefore, and said,Thou art his disciple, and we are Moses’ disciples; 29 we have known that God hath spoken to Moses, but this one — we have not known whence he is.’Eph 5:23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.
The congregation or Church in the wilderness, that was baptized into Moses, represents the body of Moses, this is the body that Jude was referring to
Ezra 4:1 Now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the descendants of the captivity were building the temple of the Lord God of Israel, 2 they came to Zerubbabel and the heads of the fathers’ houses, and said to them, “Let us build with you, for we seek your God as you do; and we have sacrificed to Him since the days of Esarhaddon king of Assyria, who brought us here.” 3 But Zerubbabel and Jeshua and the rest of the heads of the fathers’ houses of Israel said to them, “You may do nothing with us to build a house for our God; but we alone will build to the Lord God of Israel, as King Cyrus the king of Persia has commanded us.” 4 Then the people of the land tried to discourage the people of Judah. They troubled them in building, 5 and hired counselors against them to frustrate their purpose all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia. [/b]
6 In the reign of Ahasuerus, in the beginning of his reign, they wrote an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem.7 In the days of Artaxerxes also, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabel, and the rest of their companions wrote to Artaxerxes king of Persia; and the letter was written in Aramaic script, and translated into the Aramaic language. 8 Rehumthe commander and Shimshai the scribe wrote a letter against Jerusalem to King Artaxerxes in this fashion: 9 From Rehum the commander, Shimshai the scribe, and the rest of their companions–representatives of the Dinaites, the Apharsathchites, the Tarpelites, the people of Persia and Erech and Babylon and Shushan, the Dehavites, the Elamites, 10 and the rest of the nations whom the great and noble Osnapper took captive and settled in the cities of Samaria and the remainder beyond the River*–and so forth.11 (This is a copy of the letter that they sent him) To King Artaxerxes from your servants, the men of the region beyond the River, and so forth: 12 Let it be known to the king that the Jews who came up from you have come to us at Jerusalem, and are building the rebellious and evil city, and are finishing its walls and repairing the foundations. 13 Let it now be known to the king that, if this city is built and the walls completed, they will not pay tax, tribute, or custom, and the king’s treasury will be diminished. 14 Now because we receive support from the palace, it was not proper for us to see the king’s dishonor; therefore we have sent and informed the king, 15 that search may be made in the book of the records of your fathers. And you will find in the book of the records and know that this city is a rebellious city, harmful to kings and provinces, and that they have incited sedition within the city in former times, for which cause this city was destroyed. 16 We inform the king that if this city is rebuilt and its walls are completed, the result will be that you will have no dominion beyond the River.
17 The king sent an answer: To Rehum the commander, to Shimshai the scribe, to the rest of their companions who dwell in Samaria, and to the remainder beyond the River: Peace, and so forth. 18 The letter which you sent to us has been clearly read before me. 19 And I gave the command, and a search has been made, and it was found that this city in former times has revolted against kings, and rebellion and sedition have been fostered in it. 20 There have also been mighty kings over Jerusalem, who have ruled over all the region beyond the River; and tax, tribute, and custom were paid to them. 21 Now give the command to make these men cease, that this city may not be built until the command is given by me. 22 Take heed now that you do not fail to do this. Why should damage increase to the hurt of the kings? 23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes’ letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.
Ezra 5:1 Ten the prophet Haggai and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophets, prophesied to the Jews who were in Judah and Jerusalem, in the name of the God of Israel, who was over them. 2 So Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel and Jeshua the son of Jozadak rose up and began to build the house of God which is in Jerusalem; and the prophets of God were with them, helping them.
Ezra 6:7 Let the work of this house of God alone; let the governor of the Jews and the elders of the Jews build this house of God on its site. 8 Moreover I issue a decree as to what you shall do for the elders of these Jews, for the building of this house of God: Let the cost be paid at the king’s expense from taxes on the region beyond the River; this is to be given immediately to these men, so that they are not hindered. 9 And whatever they need–young bulls, rams, and lambs for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the request of the priests who are in Jerusalem–let it be given them day by day without fail, 10 that they may offer sacrifices of sweet aroma to the God of heaven, and pray for the life of the king and his sons. 11 Also I issue a decree that whoever alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this. 12 And may the God who causes His name to dwell there destroy any king or people who put their hand to alter it, or to destroy this house of God which is in Jerusalem. I Darius issue a decree; let it be done diligently.
Zechariah 3:1 And he sheweth me Joshua the high priest standing before the messenger of Jehovah, and the Adversary standing at his right hand, to be an adversary to him. 2 And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary: `Jehovah doth push against thee, O Adversary, Yea, push against thee doth Jehovah, Who is fixing on Jerusalem, Is not this a brand delivered from fire?’
Zechariah prophesied this during the time that the body of Moses was attempting to rebuild the temple, During the time of Ezra 4 and 6!!
Zechariah 4:1 Now the angel who talked with me came back and wakened me, as a man who is wakened out of his sleep 2 And he said to me, “What do you see?” So I said, “I am looking, and there is a lampstand of solid gold with a bowl on top of it, and on the stand seven lamps with seven pipes to the seven lamps. 3 Two olive trees are by it, one at the right of the bowl and the other at its left.” 4 So I answered and spoke to the angel who talked with me, saying, “What are these, my lord?” 5 Then the angel who talked with me answered and said to me, “Do you not know what these are?” And I said, “No, my lord.” 6 So he answered and said to me: “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ Says the Lord of hosts. 7 ‘Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain! And he shall bring forth the capstone With shouts of “Grace, grace to it!” ‘ ” 8 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 9 “The hands of Zerubbabel Have laid the foundation of this temple;* His hands shall also finish it. Then you will know That the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you. 10 For who has despised the day of small things? For these seven rejoice to see The plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. They are the eyes of the Lord, Which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth.”
WHO was the adversary that stood in the way of the body of Moses under Joshua the high priest, being a false accuser or DEVIL unto them, trying to keep them from building the temple?
The saw-tawn (adversary) of which the Lord rebuked in Zechariah 3 under Zechariah’s Vision were the Samaritans. God, through His angel affecting the decision of the king, made the prophesy of Zechariah come true, rebuking the Samaritan’s desire to keep the temple from being built.
Michael the angel, the eyes of the Lord which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth, had to contend with the Samaritans who were acting as adversaries against the body of Moses during the time Joshua was the high priest.
To get back to the topic, The Serpent in the Garden of Eden, I am asking for someone to produce scriptural evidence that identifies the serpent according to Christian Tradition, that the serpent is a fallen angel in disguise.
To recap my position-
Man is called a serpent throughout the bible for being a deceiver/liar
When man sins he is said to do so from his own heart, his own imagination, and from ignorance
When man sins he is referred to as being a wild animal or beast
In scripture we see that man has a problem wanting to think that he is immortal, Ecclesiastes tells us those thoughts are vein and in error as we have no advantage above animals, that we in fact have the same fate, to return to the dust.
Man has a problem also in believing that he can become like God, that he can be a god. Pagan men of power believed that they were gods, they built high towers to reach the heavens. Men of power are said to dwell in the heavens, but God time and time again brings them down and destroys their power.
These same men believe they have the wisdom of God, God shows them otherwise.
The serpent in the Garden creates a LIE that you can eat of the fruit and not die, and moreover that you will become as gods.
Adam and Eve ate of the fruit desiring wisdom.
Romans 5:12 because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
Proverbs 18:21 The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit.
2 Corinthians 11:3 and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that [is] in the Christ;
Romans 16:18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people
Romans 3:13 “Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.” “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death;
Romans 8:7 The carnal mind is enmity against God
The serpent in the Garden represented the carnal mind of Adam who deceived Eve, he then let her eat of the fruit first to see what would happen and then he partook of the fruit himself.
Jesus did not follow his carnal mind, he followed the will of God and destroyed the old man. He destroyed the power of the devil (slanderer). He destroyed the enmity between the woman’s seed and the serpent’s seed. Jesus overcame the world, he overcame the lusts of the flesh and the carnal mind also referred to today as the reptilian brain.
Hi Jodi,
Why is it so important to you to remove Satan from Scripture and to substitute tiny man?
The body of Moses spoken of by Jude is indeed spiritual like to the Body of Christ.
Man has intellectualised the spiritual words for those he can control.
The mad demoniac in the tombs was freed from satan’s control and his mind was healed.
Jodi…..Do you believe it was JESUS who was guiding the Isrealites in the wilderness? Or was it the cristo’s , the anointing spirit of God the Father guiding them?
Jesus is not the anointing spirit, he is the one who recieved that anointibg at the Jordan river, is the way i see it.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Jodi,
Do you really believe that constant repetition
and using 1000 words where 10 would do
makes your opinions much more true?
A little tint here and more shading there and hide him in an avalanche of words.
There was war in heaven and Satan and a third of the heavenly messengers were thrown out. The same Satan who had met with God and his other sons and who had been wandering his earthly domain. The same Satan who had been allowed to severely damage the life of Job. God chose puny man on the tiny distant outpost of earth to bring down and shame the powerful beings of heaven.
Why would you see value in your offering deep darkness to men when light is freely available?
Hi Nick,
I haven’t REMOVED the adversary at all I have identified all the saw-tawns throughout the bible. We have in scripture God and His angels as being adversaries unto men, we have men being adversaries unto other men, and men being an adversary to himself. What we do not find are fallen angels being adversaries to God or to man.
Jesus called Peter an adversary because he had in mind the things of MEN, not because he was being influenced by fallen angels. Countless scriptures identify why men sin, and it is plainly stated as coming from their OWN hearts, their OWN imaginations, and out of their OWN ignorance.
The adversary came to Jesus after he had gone without food for 40 days in the wilderness, Jesus had to overcome the mind of the things of men. He had the power to serve himself produce food so that he could eat, that was not God’s will however, and Jesus was able to deny his carnal mind.
“tiny man”???? All throughout history we have examples of POWERFUL men following their carnal nature and committing MAJOR atrocities. These men are FAR from being identified as tiny. Nick, what kind of false reality are you living in?
Roman Emperor 14-37 AD
Tiberius started out well, but greed and paranoia stepped in. A reign of terror started as informers accused Roman men and women of many, even silly crimes that led to capital punishment and confiscation of the criminal’s estate. In Capri, Tiberius stopped fulfilling his civic obligations, but instead engaged in licentious acts. Most familiar is his training of little boys to act as nipping minnows. Tiberius’ mean and vengeful streak caught his erstwhile confidant, Sejanus, accused of conspiracy against the emperor. Until Sejanus was destroyed, people had blamed him for the excesses of the emperor.
Roman Emperor 37-41 AD
A few short months after Caligula became Emperor, he became seriously ill. It was believed that he may have been poisoned. Although he recovered from his illness, it is said that at this point Caligula went mad. He began killing those close to him, or sending them to exile. He had Tiberius Gemellus, his cousin and adopted son, executed. Caligula’s grandmother was outraged by this, and died soon thereafter. There is disagreement as to how she died, with some saying she committed suicide, and others insisting she was poisoned by Caligula.
One of Caligula’s most egregious acts was in declaring that he was a living God. He ordered the construction of a bridge between his palace and the Temple of Jupiter, so that he could meet with the deity. He began appearing in public dressed as various gods and demigods such as Hercules, Mercury, Venus and Apollo. Reportedly, he began referring to himself as a god when meeting with politicians and he was referred to as Jupiter on occasion in public documents. Caligula had the heads removed from various statues of gods and replaced with his own in various temples. Roman Emperor 54-68
Nero’s cruelty was unfathomable. Cassius Dio, an ancient historian, tells us the Emperor ordered terrible things done to innocent people.
In the summer of 64, Rome suffered a terrible fire that burned for six days and seven nights consuming almost three quarters of the city. The people accused the Emperor Nero for the devastation claiming he set the fire for his own amusement. In order to deflect these accusations and placate the people, Nero laid blame for the fire on the Christians. The emperor ordered the arrest of a few members of the sect who, under torture, accused others until the entire Christian populace was implicated and became fair game for retribution. As many of the religious sect that could be found were rounded up and put to death in the most horrific manner for the amusement of the citizens of Rome. The ghastly way in which the victims were put to death aroused sympathy among many Romans, although most felt their execution justified.
Roman Emperor 81-96
The historian Pliny called Domitian the beast from hell who sat in its den, licking blood. In the Book of Revelation, John of the Apocalypse may have referred to Domitian when he described a beast from the abyss who blasphemes heaven and drinks the blood of the saints.
Domitian repelled invasions from Dacia (modern—day Rumania)—something later emperors would have increasing difficulty doing. He also was a master builder and adroit administrator, one of the best who ever governed the Empire. Suetonius, who hated Domitian, had to admit that “he took such care to exercise restraint over the city officials and provincial governors that at no time were these more honest or just.” But there was something wrong with Domitian. He enjoyed catching flies and stabbing them with a pen. He liked to watch gladiatorial fights between women and dwarfs. And during his reign he was so suspicious of plots against his life, the number of imperial spies and informers proliferated, as did the number of casualties among suspect Roman officials. Domitian was the first emperor to have himself officially titled in Rome as “God the Lord.” He insisted that other people hail his greatness with acclamations like “Lord of the earth,” “Invincible,” “Glory,” “Holy,” and “Thou Alone.” When he ordered people to give him divine honors, Jews, and no doubt Christians, balked. The resulting persecution of Jews is well-documented; that of Christians is not. However, the beast that the author of Revelation describes, as well as the events in the book, are perhaps best interpreted as hidden allusions to the rule of Domitian. In addition, Flavius Clemens, consul in 95, and his wife, Flavia Domitilla, were executed and exiled, respectively, by Domitian’s orders; many historians suspect this was because they were Christians.Nick scripture tells us that God creates the deaf, mute, blind, cursed, mad. He says that He ALONE is the supernatural power that brings darkness and calamity. To say that there is another supernatural being that can use supernatural forces to bring darkness is to create a false god. Men do not have supernatural powers, but they can as well bring darkness and calamity. God cast an unclean spirit onto Saul, and God had David heal him. Many men were cursed with unclean spirits and Jesus healed them. Men that were cursed with blindness or madness were treated like less than dogs, they were treated cruelly by men who held pagan ideas. The word demon to the pagans represented spirit beings that were above men but below their gods. These gods were believed to control these spirit beings referred to as demons. Demons brought both blessings and cursings according to pagan belief. If you want to interpret scripture through pagan ideas then you would identify these demons (unclean spirits) as not coming from God. Today we have MEN who cause madness! The side effects of psychiatric drugs to treat anxiety, depression, ADHD, etc…can make people far worse, turn them into homicidal maniacs. We have vaccines that cause horrific side effects of which include blindness, deafness, and intellectual disabilities. What we DO NOT have are fallen angels possessing people’s minds.
Hi Jodi,
Who was Jesus speaking with in the tombs?
Was it a man called LEGION?
Likewise Jesus was addressing a demon in Peter.
Hi Jodi,
Yes your performance is well polished and your religious masters will be happy.
But our battle is not against flesh and blood but principalities and powers.
If only you really believed in the word of God, and not that of man.
Nick you should study the word “heaven” and how it is used in the bible! That might be helpful to you. What heaven is Revelation referring to?
God’s righteous abode? The sky where the birds fly among the clouds? Outer space where the stars are? Men in high places exalted into a position of great power?
Luke 10:10But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.’ 12 But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city. 13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades.
Isaiah 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. 12 For the day of the Lord of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up– And it shall be brought low— 13 Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are high and lifted up, And upon all the oaks of Bashan; 14 Upon all the high mountains, And upon all the hills that are lifted up; 15 Upon every high tower, And upon every fortified wall; 16 Upon all the ships of Tarshish, And upon all the beautiful sloops. 17 The loftiness of man shall be bowed down, And the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; The Lord alone will be exalted in that day, 18 But the idols He shall utterly abolish.
Psalm 75:6 For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south. 7 But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another.
Ps 5:10 Pronounce them guilty, O God! Let them fall by their own counsels; Cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions, For they have rebelled against You.
Isaiah 10:33 Behold, the Lord, The Lord of hosts, Will lop off the bough with terror; Those of high stature will be hewn down, And the haughty will be humbled. 34 He will cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, And Lebanon will fall by the Mighty One.
Jer 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed; Nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; At the time I punish them, They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
Jer 50:32 The most proud shall stumble and fall, And no one will raise him up; I will kindle a fire in his cities, And it will devour all around him.”
Ps 36:12 there the workers of iniquity have fallen; They have been cast down and are not able to rise.
Psalms 89:44 You have made his glory cease, And cast his throne down to the ground.
La 2:1 How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earth The beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.
God makes the rich and the poor, He gives men their power and it is described as being exalted to heaven, when they sin they are cast down from heaven.
The adversary in Revelation 12 is called a dragon, the serpent of old
Nowhere in scripture is an evil angel likened to being a serpent
Men on the other hand are called BEASTS and serpents
This brings us back to the topic, Nick you haven’t used scripture to explain who the serpent was in the Garden, nor have you been able to refute how I have identified it. You just keep pulling up select scriptures and interpreting them according to tradition and not utilizing any scriptures to support that tradition.
You identify Satan as a fallen angel, but where is the scripture that says our adversary is a fallen angel?
I identify the word adversary (in Hebrew as saw-tawn) according to each text, God and His angels unto man, men unto other men, and men unto himself. We have Jesus calling Peter Satan because he has in mind the things of men, NOT because he is influenced by a fallen angel. The Satan in Revelation I will identify through the words of Jesus and Paul, we are taking about men being a massive evil beast having in mind the things of men, being led by their carnal nature. Nick you are identifying Satan through the traditions of men, who out of their self righteousness created a false doctrine, by saying their curses didn’t come from God, but came from evil angels.
Hi Jodi,
Demons are not fallen angels. Who told you that? Not Enoch.
Since the idolatry of Adam we have inherited lusts that give birth to sin in the flesh as James explained.
The words Jesus spoke to the pharisees calling them a brood of vipers and whited sepulchres apply to all of us, as all have sinned as Paul explained.
In our intellectual vanity we think we can rationalise away all the spiritual realities the bible teaches but our minds cannot encompass the greater truths of God.
Hi Jodi,
You certainly have a bill of goods to sell but no takers?
It should be so popular writing Satan out of the script.
I guess cutting and pasting must save you a lot of time.
But life is so much simpler for those of us who believe all of what is written.
The Satan who challenged Jesus Christ in the desert, misusing scripture, can be beaten.
It is our privilege to play our part in spiritual warfare against his minions and on the winning side.
Hi Jodi,
So tell us more about the man in the tombs.
Was his name legion?
Did Jesus heal him or are miracles to be thrown out too if man’s wisdom rules?
Hi Jodi,
Gen 1
‘ Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.
And he said to the woman…’
Do you see this as another soap opera not to be believed?
Hi Jodi,
Rev 12.9
And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old, who is called the devil and Satan….
Perhaps you will say this is a man or it is all fantasy too?
Hi Nick you said, “Demons are not fallen angels. Who told you that? Not Enoch.”
Good to know that you do not believe that demons or devils are fallen angels, and Satan as well, I am sorry for assuming so. Google demons and fallen angels you will see many articles showing that this is something that a lot of Christians do in fact believe.
I would not have to make assumptions however, if you would actually explain your position and use scripture to back it up.
You said, “In our intellectual vanity we think we can rationalise away all the spiritual realities the bible teaches but our minds cannot encompass the greater truths of God.” Nick, why don’t you explain what you are talking about here and use scripture to defend yourself.
Explain and give scripture about these spiritual realities that you believe men rationalize away.
I have a host of scriptures utilizing the word spirit but I want to wait for your explanation.
Hi Gene,
You said, “Jodi…..Do you believe it was JESUS who was guiding the Isrealites in the wilderness? Or was it the cristo’s , the anointing spirit of God the Father guiding them?
Jesus is not the anointing spirit, he is the one who recieved that anointibg at the Jordan river, is the way i see it.”
I completely agree with you Gene! I need to get over to that topic and join in!
Nick said, “Fallen angel? No they are kept in Tartarus.”
2Peter 2:
1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction,2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of,3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber.4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved,5 and the old world did not spare, but the eighth person, Noah, of righteousness a preacher, did keep, a flood on the world of the impious having brought,6 and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah having turned to ashes, with an overthrow did condemn, an example to those about to be impious having set [them];7 and righteous Lot, worn down by the conduct in lasciviousness of the impious, He did rescue,8 for in seeing and hearing, the righteous man, dwelling among them, day by day the righteous soul with unlawful works was harassing.9 The Lord hath known to rescue pious ones out of temptation, and unrighteous ones to a day of judgment, being punished, to keep,10 and chiefly those going behind the flesh in desire of uncleanness, and lordship despising; presumptuous, self-complacent, dignities they are not afraid to speak evil of,11 whereas messengers, in strength and power being greater, do not bear against them before the Lord an evil speaking judgment;12 and these, as irrational natural beasts, made to be caught and destroyed — in what things they are ignorant of, speaking evil — in their destruction shall be destroyed,13 about to receive a reward of unrighteousness, pleasures counting the luxury in the day, spots and blemishes, luxuriating in their deceits, feasting with you,14 having eyes full of adultery, and unable to cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having an heart exercised in covetousnesses, children of a curse,15 having forsaken a right way, they did go astray, having followed in the way of Balaam the [son] of Bosor, who a reward of unrighteousness did love,16 and had a rebuke of his own iniquity — a dumb ass, in man’s voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.17 These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;18 for overswellings of vanity speaking, they do entice in desires of the flesh — lasciviousnesses, those who had truly escaped from those conducting themselves in error,19 liberty to them promising, themselves being servants of the corruption, for by whom any one hath been overcome, to this one also he hath been brought to servitude,20 for, if having escaped from the pollutions of the world, in the acknowledging of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and by these again being entangled, they have been overcome, become to them hath the last things worse than the first,21 for it were better to them not to have acknowledged the way of the righteousness, than having acknowledged [it], to turn back from the holy command delivered to them,22 and happened to them hath that of the true similitude;A dog did turn back upon his own vomit,' and,A sow having bathed herself — to rolling in mire.’Jeremiah 23:10 For of adulterers hath the land been full, For because of these hath the land mourned, Dried up hath been the pleasant places of the wilderness, And their course is evil, and their might — not right.
11 For both prophet and priest have been profane, Yea, in My house I found their wickedness, An affirmation of Jehovah.
12 Therefore is their way to them as slippery places, Into thick darkness they are driven, And they have fallen in it, For I bring in against them evil, The year of their inspection, An affirmation of Jehovah.13 And in prophets of Samaria I have seen folly, They have prophesied by Baal, And cause my people — Israel — to err.14 And in prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing, Committing adultery, and walking falsely, Yea, they strengthened the hands of evil doers, So that they have not turned back Each from his wickedness, They have been to me — all of them — as Sodom, And its inhabitants as Gomorrah.Both 2 Peter and Jeremiah are speaking of MEN, 2 Peter is describing these men as irrational natural beasts. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing in this passage that would elude to the messengers being fallen angels. Everything points to them as being the prophets spoken of in Jeremiah 23. These prophets dwelt in God’s HOUSE, but once they began to give lies of prophecy God drove them into thick darkness and made them fall from “heaven”. BOTH Jeremiah and Peter compare their punishment to that of other HUMANS, the humans that were destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah. We know that in the second resurrection they will rise and be judged.
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