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Early Israelite religion grew out of earlier religions, “pagan” religions, just as they had done. And out of it, eventually, grew the more modern God of late Israelite religion (Judaism), a single, transcendent all-powerful, all-knowing God—the God of Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
I have already given references for such evolutions in my earlier post. Like Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
I am the first, and I am the last;
besides me there is no godI have already stated in my posts that Christianity or the NT is a secondary source for our arguments. I think Jesus or any other first century Jews were all based their religion on its already evolved and developed form. The books like the book of Enoch were already available to them. Even the writer of Fourth Gospel or Paul or any other writer based their interpretations on the available texts to them just like any of us as human beings. There is nothing new with such statements like this; 1 Cor 8:4-6
4 Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “no idol in the world really exists” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are many gods and many lords— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Yes you can still ask a Jew of today and Muslim of today as I had quoted in my post for clarification on multiple gods and the most high God. And I am referring to official sects of Christianity and not any controversial sects like JW/SDA/Mormons…..
Hi Mike,
Well just to be fair to the Trinitarians, they do believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
In the Nicene Creed it says:
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.God bless
Gene: TO RESOLUVE THIS BIG OBSTICAL you have , is that Jesus was speaking in a “possesive sence…
Yet I already showed you that Jesus wasn’t speaking in a possessive sense, right? Neither was the Father in Ps 82. So it appears that it is not my obstacle, but yours.
Gene: QUESTION IS , do you “truly” believe what God the Father and Jesus said.
Yep. Do you? Let’s take another look at what they said…
Psalm 82:6-7… I have said, ‘You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But like mortals you will die, and like rulers you will fall.
John 10:34-36… Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world?
Now Gene… KNOWING FOR A FACT that neither of those passages has “gods” in a possessive sense, how do YOU resolve YOUR obstacle?
As for me, I have nothing to resolve, since I know that Yahweh also claimed to be the ONLY savior – but then sent OTHER saviors to His people. The combination of both of these scriptural facts tells me that His claim to be the ONLY savior was an emphatical statement, signifying that He was the ULTIMATE savior – not literally the ONLY one.
Both you and Danny agreed with that, remember?
So why is it so hard for you to agree to the same thing when it comes to EMPHATICAL claims of being the only God or the only true God – when we know for a fact from the scriptures that there are indeed “many gods – both in heaven and on earth” – and that both Jesus and his Father openly acknowledge this fact?
Gene, YOU have an obstacle to resolve… not me. How are you going to resolve it? Because all you’ve done for 10 years is just keep repeating, “There is no God beside me”. Well Gene, that doesn’t resolve your dilemma when the same God who said those words also said these ones…
Exodus 12:12… I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am Yahweh.
So Gene, how exactly will you reconcile those two things your God said?
Gene, how could Yahweh say He is the only God – and mean it literally – if He also talks about other gods all throughout the Bible? What is your direct and honest answer to this question?
Adam: Early Israelite religion grew out of earlier religions, “pagan” religions, just as they had done. And out of it, eventually, grew the more modern God of late Israelite religion (Judaism), a single, transcendent all-powerful, all-knowing God—the God of Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
You keep claiming this same nonsense, and I keep asking you to PROVE it. But you can’t, can you? I suppose you can keep repeating the same BASELESS claims over and over if you want to, but if you can’t stand and defend those claims, why would anyone take you as anything other than an ignorant clanging cymbal?
Adam: I have already given references for such evolutions in my earlier post. Like Isaiah 44:6…
Now you just need to demonstrate HOW Isaiah 44:6 actually supports your claim above. We’re waiting…
Adam: I have already stated in my posts that Christianity or the NT is a secondary source for our arguments. I think Jesus or any other first century Jews were all based their religion on its already evolved and developed form.
Yes Adam, we are all very aware of the nonsensical things you keep STATING. But I can STATE that garden gnomes fly up my ass every night while I sleep. And my statement would have just as much credibility as yours. The question is when will you begin to PROVE that your many statements are actually true?
Adam: There is nothing new with such statements like this; 1 Cor 8:4-6
4 …as in fact there are many gods and many lords— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father…
Agreed. Statements like these are all throughout the Bible. For us, there is but one God, our Creator whom we serve. But there are indeed MANY gods – both in heaven and on earth – as that passage you quoted clearly and unequivocally states. So your claim that the Abrahamic religions “evolved” from polytheism to monotheism is blatantly false, and contradicted by the verse that you yourself just quoted.
Adam: Yes you can still ask a Jew of today and Muslim of today as I had quoted in my post for clarification on multiple gods and the most high God. And I am referring to official sects of Christianity and not any controversial sects like JW/SDA/Mormons….
I see. So the people who falsely believe that the Bible teaches of one literal god are what you call “Jews and Muslims” of today, and anyone pointing out the UNDENIABLE FACT that the Bible teaches of many different gods, and one Most High God of all the other ones is “controversial”, and therefore doesn’t count?
Listen closely here… It doesn’t matter if 8 billion people falsely believe the Bible teaches of only one God, and I’m the ONLY person on earth using the scriptures themselves to set the record straight. You’re making a logical fallacy called “the argument from popularity”…
The Argument from Popularity fallacy may be defined as when an advocate asserts that because the great majority of people in general agree with his or her position on an issue, he or she must be right.
So let’s focus on the facts, and not on how many people believe A versus how many believe B. There is, after all, a REASON that I began this thread.
Danny: Hi Mike,
Well just to be fair to the Trinitarians, they do believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
That doctrine is the epitome of nonsense. If “God” is a Godhead of Father, Son, and Spirit, then Jesus is the Son of “Father, Son, and Spirit”… ie: Jesus is HIS OWN Son! 😂
But we’ve been having that discussion on every thread here for over a decade. My question to you was about who the “gods of Egypt” were. What is your answer to that question?
Hello Mike,
You are right in stating that our Bible certainly having the verses about multiple gods which I call Polytheism. For example 2 Kgs 23:
4 The king commanded the high priest Hilkiah, the priests of the second order, and the guardians of the threshold to bring out of the temple of the Lord all the vessels made for Baal, for Asherah, and for all the host of heaven; he burned them outside Jerusalem in the fields of the Kidron and carried their ashes to Bethel. 5 He deposed the idolatrous priests whom the kings of Judah had ordained to make offerings in the high places at the cities of Judah and around Jerusalem, those also who made offerings to Baal, to the sun, the moon, the constellations, and all the host of the heavens. 6 He brought out the image of[a] Asherah from the house of the Lord, outside Jerusalem, to the Wadi Kidron, burned it at the Wadi Kidron, beat it to dust, and threw the dust of it upon the graves of the common people. 7 He broke down the houses of the illicit priests who were in the house of the Lord, where the women did weaving for Asherah. 8 He brought all the priests out of the towns of Judah and defiled the high places where the priests had made offerings, from Geba to Beer-sheba; he broke down the high places of the gates that were at the entrance of the gate of Joshua the governor of the city, which were on the left at the gate of the city. 9 The priests of the high places, however, did not come up to the altar of the Lord in Jerusalem but ate unleavened bread among their kindred. 10 He defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of Ben-hinnom, so that no one would make a son or a daughter pass through fire as an offering to Molech. 11 He removed the horses that the kings of Judah had dedicated to the sun at the entrance to the house of the Lord, by the chamber of the eunuch Nathan-melech, which was in the precincts; then he burned the chariots of the sun with fire. 12 The altars on the roof of the upper chamber of Ahaz that the kings of Judah had made and the altars that Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the Lord he pulled down from there and broke in pieces and threw the rubble into the Wadi Kidron. 13 The king defiled the high places that were east of Jerusalem, to the south of the Mount of Destruction, which King Solomon of Israel had built for Astarte the abomination of the Sidonians, for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, and for Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 14 He broke the pillars in pieces, cut down the sacred poles,[c] and covered the sites with human bones.
15 Moreover, the altar at Bethel, the high place erected by Jeroboam son of Nebat, who caused Israel to sin—he pulled down that altar along with the high place. He burned the high place, crushing it to dust; he also burned the sacred pole.[d] 16 As Josiah turned, he saw the tombs there on the mount, and he sent and took the bones out of the tombs and burned them on the altar and defiled it, according to the word of the Lord that the man of God proclaimed when Jeroboam stood by the altar at the festival; he turned and looked up at the tomb of the man of God who had proclaimed these things.[e] 17 Then he said, “What is that monument that I see?” The people of the city told him, “It is the tomb of the man of God who came from Judah and proclaimed these things that you have done against the altar at Bethel.” 18 He said, “Let him rest; let no one move his bones.” So they let his bones alone, with the bones of the prophet who came out of Samaria. 19 Moreover, Josiah removed all the shrines of the high places that were in the towns of Samaria that kings of Israel had made, provoking the Lord to anger; he did to them just as he had done at Bethel. 20 He slaughtered on the altars all the priests of the high places who were there and burned human bones on them. Then he returned to Jerusalem.
The above narration is the evidence of Polytheism in Israel at the time of King Josiah and in fact it was even visible in the very Temple of Yahweh. But this Polytheism was destroyed and mostly removed by this reformist King Josiah in Israel. The change in Biblical texts on religion are clearly visible in Prophetical writings like Isaiah 44-46. One such example is Isaiah 46:
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
besides me there is no god.
I arm you, though you do not know me,
6 so that they may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is no one besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make weal and create woe;So the Hebrew religion had become Monotheistic by this time and even the so called Ten Commandments can not stand before such claims. This is what the historians and Scholars are arguing on the Biblical religion.
Mike……The simple truth is that you do not understand what the word God “means”. It means a relationship with something it can be anything that exists. Can you understand that? That’s what is tripping you and others up.
Once again I will explained it to you, Ok?
The original Hebrew language was a, pictorial language, and the word that became known as God, was a picture of an OX head with a Shepards staff leaning toward it. Simple right? , the OX head meant “POWER”, the Shepards staff meant , what they leaned and trusted for “SUPPORT “.
THAT IS ALL THE WORD “GOD MEANS”. , Can you understand that?, To the Ancient Israelites , it represented the invisible being , who’s personal name they did not know . Because it was not revealed to them “yet” , but latter was revealed as Yohovah or Yahweh , that was the person that was their God, Are you still following this ? , so the object of what they leaned on and trusted in for their “Power” , was a being named Yohovah or Yahweh, An because they put their hope and faith in him “HE WAS THEIR GOD” are you still following? , Now if you have that part right then you should be able to see “that anything you put your hope and trust in for you “POWER’” in life is “YOUR” GOD.
Why ?, because it fulfills what the word “GOD” MEANS , TO YOU.
GET IT , the word God is a “DESCRIPTOR “, of YOUR “OWN”, “RELATIONSHIP” with anything that exists. So anything can be “YOUR” God, but unto “US” true believers, we only have “ONE ‘TRUE” GOD , HIS name is Yohovah or Yahweh.
That dosen’t mean he is your, God, it could be any of the thousand of God’s you believe are true Gods. But for US AND Jesus, we only Have One that we call “TRUE” GOD, all the rest, TO US, are false GODS.Question is do you “truly” believe Jesus, when he said , “this is eternal life, that they might know you the “ONLY” TRUE GOD.” All the rest are simple false God’s “TO US” AND Jesus, but you can believe they are true God’s if you want to that’s up to you right?
So Mike are those thousands or millions of upper or lower case God’s you tell us about, “True” God’s ? Scripture says, ” God is not a man , that he should lie, nor a “son of man”, that he should repent”
Scripture tell us, “no man or son of man is a God,”, but you know better? Your upper and lower case God thing simply doesn’t work, why, because either way it still the word, (God) and both have the exact same meaning.
I am not saying other thing can’t be a God , TO YOU, AND OTHERS, as defined by the word itself. But they are not a God, TO US, nor Jesus, either. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours Mike………gene
Sorry the last verse I have mentioned wrongly as Isaiah 46: in my last post. Please read it as Isaiah 45:5-7
Adam: The above narration is the evidence of Polytheism in Israel at the time of King Josiah… But this Polytheism was destroyed and mostly removed by this reformist King Josiah in Israel. The change in Biblical texts on religion are clearly visible in Prophetical writings like Isaiah 44-46. One such example is Isaiah 46…
So the Hebrew religion had become Monotheistic by this time and even the so called Ten Commandments can not stand before such claims. This is what the historians and Scholars are arguing on the Biblical religion.
Adam, the argument you have been attempting to make is that the Bible/Abrahamic Religions CHANGED over time from polytheism to strict monotheism. That is blatantly untrue, and there is NOTHING in the entire Bible to support your claim. Let’s walk through this step by step…
1. From the earliest writings of Moses to the latest writings of John, the Bible teaches of many gods along with one Most High God of all the other gods. The belief in the existence of many gods is called “polytheism” – and this belief is prevalent from the beginning of the Bible to the end.
2. From the earliest writings of Moses to the latest writings of John, the Bible teaches that THE WORSHIP of gods other than the Most High God is forbidden… especially for the children of Abraham. This doctrine is also prevalent from the beginning of the Bible to the end.
3. All throughout the Bible, various people worshiped gods other than Yahweh. But the people like King Josiah, who worshiped Yahweh alone, still accepted the existence of the other gods that they weren’t supposed to worship.
Do you understand that? There was never a “CHANGE” from polytheistic beliefs (there exist many gods) to a strictly monotheistic belief (there LITERALLY exists only ONE god).
So what you’ve shown in your post is a historical account where many of Abraham’s descendants rebelled against their God Yahweh, and worshiped other gods against His commands. And then you contrasted that with Yahweh making an EMPHATICAL statement that He is the only God. Of course we know that Yahweh’s statement was emphatic and not literal because, all throughout the Bible, Yahweh Himself acknowledges the existence of the other gods that He Himself created in the first place.
Deut 32:8 tells of how Yahweh assigned various gods to watch over various nations, and (many years later) created the nation of Israel from Abram as His very own portion of the peoples of the earth. These other gods that Yahweh assigned to the various nations were not supposed to act as the gods of those people, but to watch over them and teach them right from wrong. But instead of doing that, they taught the people of those nations things they weren’t supposed to teach them, like sorcery, making weapons, wearing makeup, how to read the clouds, and a bunch of other stuff that is detailed in the Book of Enoch, where these gods are called “Watchers”. Then when some of these gods went way too far and started mating with human woman and producing giants who devoured the food of the land and even started eating humans, the Most High God got involved and put an end to this debauchery by burying the main instigators under the earth, and bringing the flood to wipe out the giant offspring produced by those wicked gods – along with every living thing on earth except for Noah and his family – because those gods had corrupted everything good on God’s earth.
After the flood, different gods (Watchers) were appointed to the various nations, but unfortunately began to do the same evil things that the previous Watchers had done. The punishment of these new Watchers is the subject of Psalm 82 – where they are told by Yahweh that, although they were created as gods, they will die like mortal men die for their disobedience.
It was at that point that Yahweh chose one man, Abram, to make a nation of His very own that He would personally watch over and teach right from wrong, instead of delegating that task to the other gods who had continually proved unfaithful to His commands in the past. This is likely the meaning of the last verse of Ps 82… “Arise, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are Your inheritance” – which aligns with, “Your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations” – which also aligns with Deut 32:8-9, “He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God, but Yahweh’s portion is Jacob“. (See also Rom 4:18, Gal 3:8)
So you see, Adam, there was never any “CHANGE” from polytheism to monotheism in the Bible. It is, from start to finish, the account of one Most High God, the physical world and people that He created, and the other gods that He had created and assigned to teach His humans righteousness, but they taught them evil instead.
From beginning to end, the Bible teaches that there are many gods, but only one God that humans are to worship and serve as their God – the One who actually created them.
So you see, Adam, there was never any “CHANGE” from polytheism to monotheism in the Bible. It is, from start to finish, the account of one Most High God, the physical world and people that He created, and the other gods that He had created and assigned to teach His humans righteousness, but they taught them evil instead.
From beginning to end, the Bible teaches that there are many gods, but only one God that humans are to worship and serve as their God – the One who actually created them.
Hi Mike, thanks a lot for your excellent narration on the Biblical religion. Yes I too agree that Biblical religion had taken its birth in the midst of Polytheism and mostly maintained it status as Monolatry than Monotheism which is visible in fewer texts like Isaiah 44-46. But I am finding it as evolved or developed when I read the various texts in the Hebrew Bible. This is the reason why I am quoting the historical and Scholars reference here.
Deut 32:8 tells of how Yahweh assigned various gods to watch over various nations, and (many years later) created the nation of Israel from Abram as His very own portion of the peoples of the earth. These other gods that Yahweh assigned to the various nations were not supposed to act as the gods of those people, but to watch over them and teach them right from wrong. But instead of doing that, they taught the people of those nations things they weren’t supposed to teach them, like sorcery, making weapons, wearing makeup, how to read the clouds, and a bunch of other stuff that is detailed in the Book of Enoch, where these gods are called “Watchers”.
This is where I differ with you because the original text of Deut 32:7-9 (New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition) reads as
7 Remember the days of old;
consider the years long past;
ask your father, and he will inform you,
your elders, and they will tell you.
8 When the Most High apportioned the nations,
when he divided humankind,
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of the gods;[c]
9 the Lord’s own portion was his people,
Jacob his allotted share.The Scholars quote this passage about the subordination of Yahweh with the Most High(God). Even they call this as division of nations to gods or god’s sons and may be 70 numbers (El’s sons) as there are 70 nations as per Gen 10. Book of Enoch is only a Apocryphal book and written much later and beyond the Hebrew Canon. So the so called Watchers as you mentioned is another later interpretation of the Torah.
Gene: Mike……The simple truth is that you do not understand what the word God “means”. It means a relationship with something it can be anything that exists. Can you understand that? That’s what is tripping you and others up.
Gene, you’ve been spouting the same misunderstandings here for over 10 years – no matter how many times people prove your mistakes. Let’s put your nonsensical claim to the test…
Isaiah 46:9… for I am God, and there is no other.
Now let’s do it your way…
Isaiah 46:9… for I am A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMETHING, and there is no other.
Can you see how utterly STUPID your argument is now? Let’s try another…
John 17:3… Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
Now let’s do it your way…
John 17:3… Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMETHING, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
It baffles me how a supposedly rational man could even make such an IDIOTIC claim… and continue to make it for over a decade! Please don’t make it again, because it makes you seem very unintelligent.
Now, don’t think I didn’t notice that you are once again trying to change the subject to avoid giving a direct and honest answer to the questions I actually asked you. In fact, you know what… I’ve had enough of this. I’m going to finally put you on the Hot Seat to end this craziness once and for all.
Here is your first question on the Hot Seat, Gene. The rules of this site are that you MUST answer the Hot Seat question BEFORE you post a single thing anywhere else on this site. I look forward to your answer, so maybe we can finally, after 10 years, begin to get to the bottom of your many misunderstandings. Here is the link…
@admin Please note that I’ve placed Gene on the Hot Seat for repeatedly avoiding direct questions. Please enforce the rules of this site, and block him from posting if he refuses to first answer the Hot Seat question. Thank you.Adam: Sorry the last verse I have mentioned wrongly as Isaiah 46: in my last post. Please read it as Isaiah 45:5-7
Understood, but since Isaiah 46:9 has the similar language, six of one, half dozen of the other.
Danny: Hi Mike,
Created beings are not God and they will never be God.
Agreed. But nobody here ever claimed that created beings are God, so your statement is random and unrelated to the discussion.
Exodus 12:12… On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am Yahweh.
Numbers 33:4… Now the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn, whom the Lord had killed among them; Yahweh also executed judgments on their gods.
Danny, who are the gods of Egypt?
Hi Mike,
I never said there is only one god (lowercase g)
I said that there is only one God (Capital G)God bless
Adam: Hi Mike, thanks a lot for your excellent narration on the Biblical religion. Yes I too agree that Biblical religion had taken its birth in the midst of Polytheism and mostly maintained it status as Monolatry than Monotheism which is visible in fewer texts like Isaiah 44-46.
I didn’t say anything about the Bible “taking its birth in the midst of polytheism”, Adam. Why would you imply that you’re agreeing with something I said, when I said no such thing?
Listen again very closely…
1. The Bible – FROM BEGINNING TO END – teaches about many gods, and one Most High God Yahweh whom we are to worship and serve.
That’s it. There is no number 2. I challenge you to show me from scripture that the Bible slowly changed from the existence of many gods and one Most High Creator God, and started teaching that there was LITERALLY only ONE SINGLE God in all of existence.
You keep bringing up certain emphatical statements in Isaiah 44-46 as your proof, right? So let’s see if those statements really say what you claim they do.
Isaiah 44:8… Is there any god but me? There is no other rock; I know not one.
Adam, did the entire earth become devoid of rocks when Yahweh made that statement? Yes or No, please.
Adam: This is where I differ with you because the original text of Deut 32:7-9 (New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition) reads as
7 Remember the days of old;
consider the years long past;
ask your father, and he will inform you,
your elders, and they will tell you.
8 When the Most High apportioned the nations,
when he divided humankind,
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of the gods;[c]
9 the Lord’s own portion was his people,
Jacob his allotted share.What’s so special about that particular translation? It’s the same as the majority of them. What does it prove in your mind?
Adam: The Scholars quote this passage about the subordination of Yahweh with the Most High(God).
Which scholars? ALL of them? And of the few who do make this “subordination of Yahweh” claim, WHY do they make it? There is clearly nothing in the words that supports such a claim. In fact, the surrounding context makes it clear that anyone making such a nonsensical claim needs to have their head examined. Let’s see it in context…
Deut 32:3-9… For I will proclaim the name of Yahweh. Ascribe greatness to our God! He is the Rock, His work is perfect; all His ways are just. A God of faithfulness without injustice, righteous and upright is He. His people have acted corruptly toward Him; the spot on them is not that of His children, but of a perverse and crooked generation.
Is this how you repay Yahweh, O foolish and senseless people? Is He not your Father and Creator? Has He not made you and established you? Remember the days of old; consider the years long past. Ask your father, and he will tell you, your elders, and they will inform you. When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when He divided the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. But Yahweh’s portion is His people, Jacob His allotted inheritance.
So this is part of a song that Moses sang in tribute to the God who had just rescued them from Egypt. This is the same Moses to whom Yahweh told His name, right? This is the same Moses who recorded God’s account of the entire creation of heaven, earth, the sea, and everything in them – and attributed that creation to Yahweh. The same Moses who wrote Psalm 90: “Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God.”
And for some unexplainable reason, you and your “scholars” believe that this very Moses, in the middle of his tribute song to Yahweh, Creator of heaven and earth, just up and inserted a teaching that Yahweh was a local tribal god who was subservient to a greater Canaanite god? The one who Moses said created all things and was from everlasting to everlasting, this same Moses all of sudden mentioned that, “Oh, and by the way, this great God who created all things in heaven and earth is actually just a lowly local god who was given the nation of Israel by his own god, El of the Canaanites.” ???
Are you freaking kidding me? Are you daft or something? You’d have to be to believe such utter nonsense.
Please explain your reasoning, Adam. Please explain why exactly you believe the “Most High” in verse 8 could possibly be anyone other than the same Yahweh that Moses had been talking about all along in that song… especially considering that Yahweh is unambiguously called “the Most High” in other scriptures.
Danny: Hi Mike,
I never said there is only one god (lowercase g)
I said that there is only one God (Capital G)There are no upper/lower case distinctions in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures, Danny. Again, your statement is unrelated to the question I asked you…
Who are the gods of Egypt that were punished by Yahweh? (The answer is that they are gods other than Yahweh. Are you able to state that answer for the record? If not, state your own answer for the record. Thanks.)
Adam: Book of Enoch is only a Apocryphal book and written much later and beyond the Hebrew Canon. So the so called Watchers as you mentioned is another later interpretation of the Torah.
Prove it. Put up or shut up.
Listen again very closely…
1. The Bible – FROM BEGINNING TO END – teaches about many gods, and one Most High God Yahweh whom we are to worship and serve.
That’s it. There is no number 2. I challenge you to show me from scripture that the Bible slowly changed from the existence of many gods and one Most High Creator God, and started teaching that there was LITERALLY only ONE SINGLE God in all of existence.
Yes, the Hebrew Bible stresses Yahweh’s primacy, while recognizing the occurrence of other gods. For instance, Micaiah’s vision in 1 Kgs 22.19 depicts Yahweh “sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him to the right and to the left of him.” The presence of these other gods is necessary to uphold Yahweh’s supremacy. Before Yahweh could be conceived of as alone, he first had to be viewed as the greatest. Hence the Hebrew Bible is riddled with polytheistic presuppositions.
The sheer quantity of further texts in favour of a native pantheon in the Hebrew Bible precludes a comprehensive presentation. Unproblematic hints that presuppose a heavenly realm populated by several or many deities can be found in the expression “God of gods” (Ps. 136.2–3). Even the expression “our god” in the charter of biblical monotheism, the Shema Israel, admits that other gods exist for other peoples. It insists that Yahweh is Israel’s only god, without negating the existence of other divinities for Israel’s neighbours. The occurrence of other gods is necessary, or the point made in Judg. 11.24 would fail. Addressing the Ammonite king, Jephthah asks: “Should you not possess what your god Chemosh gives you to possess? And should we not be the ones to possess everything that the Yahweh our god has conquered for our benefit?” Jephthah’s understanding of monotheism implies that each kingdom venerates its own god. Monotheism in this case applies only to the level of individual kingdoms. As this view is reflected in the non-corrected version of Deut. 32.9, the writer does not present Jephthah as a less than orthodox follower of Mosaic monotheism, though Jephthah belongs to the ambiguous figures of the Book of Judges.
This kind of territorial monotheism is deemed normative or at least sufficient to justify Israel’s presence in Canaan. That this kind of territorial monotheism clashes with universal monotheism is not considered problematic. At most, Jephthah is conceived of as a proponent of a form of monotheism which became obsolete when Yahweh told Moses that the god El Shaddai who appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was in fact Yahweh himself (Exod. 6.3). In this case, however, Moses seems to have forgotten the secret knowledge he received in Egypt when, years later, he recited Deuteronomy 32. Or, by stating that Deuteronomy 32 is a song (Deut. 31.30), the writer established a distinction between Mosaic monotheism and an older form of monotheism, which was still transmitted in this traditional song.
When Exodus 18.11 claims that Yahweh is greater than all the gods (האלהים גדול יהוה מכל , (it also implies the presence of these other deities besides Yahweh. The same applies to the claim that all gods bow down before Yahweh in Psalms 97.7. While the Hebrew grammar, especially in poetic contexts, cannot be evoked to assert that this statement envisages that the supremacy of Yahweh will be recognized in heaven in the future, Zech. 14.9 clearly understands that “Yahweh will be one” only on the day when “Yahweh will become king over all the earth.” As part of a prophetic oracle, the expression “on that day” (ההוא ביום (looks forward to a future accomplishment and the verb יהיה) he will become) is an unaccomplished form. Therefore, Zechariah 14 supports the view of an evolutionary process in which monotheism gradually evolved towards an understanding of Yahweh as a universalistic monotheism. …(taken from the book “Monotheism and Yahweh’s Appropriation of Baal”)
So this is what I mean by evolution of Israelite religion from Polytheism to Monotheism. Yes Polytheism in the Biblical texts is about existence of gods for other nations and Yahweh for Israelites. Hope I am clear to you.
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