The Light

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
God is the light Source.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,

You write:
God is the light Source.

I write:
I agree with you on that Nick. God definetely IS the light source. He is the Father of lights and He is the Father of Jesus who, as it is written, is the Light.

John 8:12

Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, ” I am the Light of the world;
NASU

John 9:5-6
5 “While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”
NASU

John 1:9-10

9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
NASU

So you see that Jesus is the Light in the above verses, it is my opinion that He is even the “Light” that was brought into existence on day one of creation. I know that we differ on this. However, when I asked God to show me what “firstborn” meant from Col. 1:15,

(15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
NASU)

during that first month of searching scriptures and listening to the Holy Spirit, He, the best I could tell, tied it into His first words of the Bible “Let there be Light.” I have extrapolated on that experience before and if anyone would like to know what happened, just ask. Nick, that month changed me from a trinitarian to an understanding that Jesus was actually a Son of God from the beginning and He had a beginning. He was actually born of God before the foundation of the world, as the begotten God and later in Bethlehem, He was born of woman, as a man. Of course, this is my understanding and I do not want to appear dogmatic because I am not God and our thoughts are not necessarily His thoughts. It is possible for Him to give us understanding, tho.

Nick, I know that you did not go through that month of searching with me as I did and can't accept the understanding I got just because I told you about it. But it changed my spiritual life like nothing else. And it has been quite an adventure since, sometimes troubling when I look at some trinitarian's ideas and accusations but not troubling as I look back to God's word.

I appreciate you thoughts.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Jn1
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

LIGHT

Number 5457
Transliteration:
phos {foce}
Word Origin:
from an obsolete phao (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays, cf 5316, 5346)
TDNT:
9:310,1293
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
light 68, fire 2

Total: 70
Definition:
light
the light
emitted by a lamp
a heavenly light such as surrounds angels when they appear on earth
anything emitting light
a star
fire because it is light and sheds light
a lamp or torch
light, i.e brightness
of a lamp
metaph.
God is light because light has the extremely delicate, subtle, pure, brilliant quality
of truth and its knowledge, together with the spiritual purity associated with it
that which is exposed to the view of all, openly, publicly
reason, mind
the power of understanding esp. moral and spiritual truth For Synonyms see entry 5817

So a lamp is a light source and Christ was that Lamp showing the light of God.

[Lightenup]

I agree Nick,
Jesus is the Light, which came into the world to show us the way to God and the truth of God and to change us from having a life filled with darkness to a spiritual life filled with the light He emits.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
NASU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
If we look at the John scripture is Jesus the light that lightens EVERY MAN?
Were the chosen people his people or the people of God?

[Lightenup]

Hello Nick,
This is a very good question. Let's look at a few passages:

John 1:9-10

9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
NASU

It does say “enlightens every man” so the answer to your question is yes, Jesus is the light that enlightens every man.

John 1:5
5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
NASU

John 1:11-13
11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
NASU

In the above verse, it says that He came to His own and I am supposing that to mean the Jews. He shines on every man but not all will comprehend it and receive Him. Those who received Him, the light, are those who were born again. They are giving the right to become children of God.

This is merely my understanding, not dogma. Does that answer your question?

John 12:46-47
46 ” I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
NASU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
If Jesus enlightens every man how come most remain unenlightened?

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,
He shines on every man but not all will comprehend it and receive Him.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,

??
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,
That is true Nick, the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which is why those that are enlightened cannot comprehend the Light and receive Christ. I wonder what it will be like when satan is locked up for 1000 years.

[seek and you will find]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,03:22)

Hi Nick, That is true Nick, the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which is why those that are enlightened cannot comprehend the Light and receive Christ.  I wonder what it will be like when satan is locked up for 1000 years.

Then the truth will cover the world like water covers the sea.
The Highway of Holiness what does that mean. And only those that are clean can walk on it.
I believe that those that have been washed in the Blood of the Lamb like it says in Rev. will walk there.
Peace and Love Mrs.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
EVERY MAN seems to go beyond your idea of enlightenment.
The light of Christ shines from Christ in the enlightened
But most are not thereby enlightened.

[NickHassan]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 12 2008,04:39)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,03:22) Hi Nick, That is true Nick, the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which is why those that are enlightened cannot comprehend the Light and receive Christ.  I wonder what it will be like when satan is locked up for 1000 years. Then the truth will cover the world like water covers the sea. The Highway of Holiness what does that mean. And only those that are clean can walk on it. I believe that those that have been washed in the Blood of the Lamb like it says in Rev. will walk there. Peace and Love Mrs.

Hi Mrs,
Is 35
1The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

2It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

3Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

9No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

10And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
 

It seems to relate IMHO primariliy to the resurrected Jews living under Christ in Israel in the time of the millenial reign when they are shown how to be led by the indwelling Spirit of God.
Of course such a way exists now for us, the way of Christ.

Note also the cross reference to Heb 12
12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,

You wrote:

EVERY MAN seems to go beyond your idea of enlightenment.
The light of Christ shines from Christ in the enlightened
But most are not thereby enlightened.

All are enlightened, some will receive it and then shine that light to others, some will not receive it and not shine that light to others. The light shines in the darkness but many can't see it, nonetheless, it still shines even in the darkness.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,

Christ was full of light.
Matthew 17:2
And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

We have the same light that lit up Christ.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 6:22
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,
That's true. I believe the Son of God is the Light, He is the Lamp of God, and is filled with the Light which enlightens every man and to those who receive Him they will also be filled with the light. I agree.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Luke 11:35
Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

So some mistake the darkness for light.
Satan can become as an angel of light.
Deception is not far from truth but is death

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi LU

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 10 2008,09:20)

So you see that Jesus is the Light in the above verses, it is my opinion that He is even the “Light” that was brought into existence on day one of creation.  I know that we differ on this.  However, when I asked God to show me what “firstborn” meant from Col. 1:15, (15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. NASU)

In response to your interpretation of Col. 1:15, I do not think your view of it is correct.

I posted this in a previous post which you did not address. Please explain how you can say based on “Your Revelation” that Gen. 1:3 is Yeshua by using Col 1:15 which clearly in its context is not speaking of Yeshua's origins but instead of his preeminence.

There are several scriptures that may seem to imply that Yeshua had a beginning before his natural birth. I will be using KJV unless otherwise noted. Here they are…

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15

There they are!!! You may be asking yourself, “did you leave some out”? No I didn’t leave any out.  This is the only scripture found that even hints at Yeshua being born or having a beginning (besides the ambiguous Prov. quote) before he came in the flesh.

Many on this sight have quoted this verse to support the Idea that the pre-existing Yeshua had a beginning, or that he was created. Most of the time it is quoted as being in opposition to the Trinitarian view.

Lets look at its context and see if that is at all what this verse is saying. This is the verse quoted in its context…

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 18 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:15-17

NET
1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn 28 over all creation, 29 1:16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him. 1:17 He himself is before all things and all things are held together  in him.

The Greek term πρωτότοκος (prwtotokos) could refer either to first in order of time, such as a first born child, or it could refer to one who is preeminent in rank. M. J. Harris, Colossians and Philemon (EGGNT), 43, expresses the meaning of the word well: “The ‘firstborn’ was either the eldest child in a family or a person of preeminent rank. The use of this term to describe the Davidic king in Ps 88:28 LXX (=Ps 89:27 EVV), ‘I will also appoint him my firstborn (πρωτότοκον), the most exalted of the kings of the earth,’ indicates that it can denote supremacy in rank as well as priority in time. But whether the πρωτό- element in the word denotes time, rank, or both, the significance of the -τοκος element as indicating birth or origin (from τίκτω, give birth to) has been virtually lost except in ref. to lit. birth.” In Col 1:15 the emphasis is on the priority of Jesus’ rank as over and above creation (cf. 1:16 and the “for” clause referring to Jesus as Creator).
29tn The genitive construction πάσης κτίσεως (pash” ktisew”) is a genitive of subordination and is therefore translated as “over all creation.” See ExSyn 103-
Source

So we see that “Firstborn doesn’t necessarily speak of the first to be born and in fact in context here is not.
Paul uses the same word (prwtotokos) in the next verse…

1:18 He is the head of the body, the church, as well as the beginning, the firstborn32 from among the dead, so that he himself may become first in all things.33

32tn See the note on the term “firstborn” in 1:15. Here the reference to Jesus as the “firstborn from among the dead” seems to be arguing for a chronological priority, i.e., Jesus was the first to rise from the dead.
33tn Grk “in order that he may become in all things, himself, first.” Source

Now we know that Yeshua wasn’t the first person to rise from the dead, but he was the first person to rise from the dead in the New Creation.
Simply put, Yeshua is the firstborn because he is the first in all things! By and through him all things were created and without him nothing was made that was made. That would not include him for he didn’t create himself.  

Blessings, WJ

[gollamudi]

Hi WJ, I agree with some of your interpretations of Col 1:16-17, yes I also believe that this verse is not talking about his birth on the day One of creation but on his pre-eminence in this whole universe(creation). He is second to none but God the father. He also became first in God's new creation by being resurrected as first of all to be followed when he comes back on second coming. LU 's interpretation of Gen 1:3 and Jn 1:9 to Jesus' pre-existence or his birth on the day One of creation some thing really worries me.
May God give us understanding of His Son properly.
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam….Col 1:15….> is saying Jesus is the firstborn ( image) of all of (Gods creation).To truly (IMAGE) Him. Then goes to show that by God everything was created and that includes Jesus being created as the firstborn of many that will (IMAGE) GOD to Come. This text has been twisted by trinitarians to try to make Jesus equal to God the Father for centuries. and to make it appear as if Jesus is GOD. Pure Lies, Jesus said there is (ONLY ONE TRUE GOD) and He was not talking about Himself either. Did he not say “I of MYSELF CAN DO (NOTHING). Did he really mean that and at the same time He created everything. so i guess Jesus was just lying to us right. COME ON.

peace to al who understand the truth………gene

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