The False “Church System” Deception

This topic contains 131 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 10 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #818120
     terraricca 
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    I said exacly what scriptures said ,I don’t think i said the apostles are light but “THEY BECAME THE LIGHT ” meaning they received the light from Jesus their Lord and produce the fruits of that light (shine)

    anyone else after their dead did received the light by listening to the message from the apostles even today ,

    now if I am wrong show me scriptures on my wrong views

    #818127
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    What you actually said was the apostles were the light and then their words became the light. Anyone reading that would assume as I did that somehow the best had passed on and now us unfortunate people could not possess that light, but was at least in the word they left. Now you are saying something different, which is more akin to what I believe. Should I just assume that you didn’t make yourself clear enough and move on? Or did you change your mind?

    #818132
     terraricca 
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    no,I did not change my mind this is what I have always believed ,for the parables of Jesus back me up on this ,

    per ups I could not express my self good enough ,God ‘s knows

    #818143
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    So you still believe that the Apostles were light and then their words were light after they passed away?

    #818146
     terraricca 
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    yes ,because they are the only ones that received the light from Christ and published it to the rest of the world event if it was costing their lives ,like Jesus did ,

    and it was their message that Jesus prayed for , that their message would be believed without seeing him nor the miracles he did ,that was also the message he give to Thomas ,

    and it was that message that was spread through the known world at the time of Paul (Paul say so)  as a witness ,not to convert the world ,just be a witness

    this also has been done for the past 400 years now

    #818184
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    Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount

    Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, and he began to teach them.

    The Beatitudes

    He said:

    “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
        for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Blessed are those who mourn,
        for they will be comforted.
    Blessed are the meek,
        for they will inherit the earth.
    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
        for they will be filled.
    Blessed are the merciful,
        for they will be shown mercy.
    Blessed are the pure in heart,
        for they will see God.
    Blessed are the peacemakers,
        for they will be called children of God.
    10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
        for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad,because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

    Salt and Light

    13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

    14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

    The Fulfillment of the Law

    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Murder

    21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

    23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you,24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

    25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

    Adultery

    27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e]28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

    Divorce

    31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

    Oaths

    33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[g]

    Eye for Eye

    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

    Love for Enemies

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    #818185
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    Question for you Terr:

    Who was Jesus addressing?

    1. The disciples only
    2. The disciples and the crowd
    #818207
     terraricca 
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    He went on to tell the people this parable: “A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.
    “Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.’
    “But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ‘This is the heir,’ they said. ‘Let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
    “What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.”
    When the people heard this, they said, “God forbid!”
    Jesus looked directly at them and asked, “Then what is the meaning of that which is written:
    “‘The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone’?
    Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”
    The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.

    He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.
    “Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”
    Jesus Heals Ten Men With Leprosy
    Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy met him. They stood at a distance and called out in a loud voice, “Jesus, Master, have pity on us!”
    When he saw them, he said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went, they were cleansed.
    One of them, when he saw he was healed, came back, praising God in a loud voice. He threw himself at Jesus’ feet and thanked him—and he was a Samaritan.
    Jesus asked, “Were not all ten cleansed? Where are the other nine? Has no one returned to give praise to God except this foreigner?” Then he said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well.”
    The Coming of the Kingdom of God
    17:26, 27pp — Mt 24:37-39
    Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
       Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
    “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
    “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
    “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot’s wife! Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [ ]
    “Where, Lord?” they asked.
    He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
    The Parable of the Persistent Widow
    ​ Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’
       “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”
    And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
    The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
    To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
    “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
    “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
    The Little Children and Jesus
    18:15-17pp — Mt 19:13-15; Mk 10:13-16
    People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”
       The Rich and the Kingdom of God
    18:18-30pp — Mt 19:16-29; Mk 10:17-30
    A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
    “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’”
    “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.
    When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
    When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
    Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”
    Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
    Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!”
    “Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
    Jesus Predicts His Death a Third Time
    18:31-33pp — Mt 20:17-19; Mk 10:32-34

    Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
      He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

    do you know why Jesus talked to the people in parables ?

    and yet explain the parables to his disciples in private ?

    #818210
     t8 
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    1 or 2?

    #818213
     terraricca 
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    according to Jesus #1

    Mt 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.

    Mt 13:36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

    Mt 15:15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”

    Mk 4:13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? do you t8 understand all the parables ? I do

    #818234
     t8 
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    You say that Jesus spoke The Beatitudes (as they are commonly known), only to the disciples. Let’s see what the text says:

    Matthew 5:1-1
    Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
    And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:

    So the disciples were with him and we both agree that he was teaching the disciples. But the crowds were there too, so it is assumed that he was speaking to them and his disciples were with Jesus. Of course your view is possible at this stage because upon seeing the crowds, Jesus could have withdrew from them to speak only to the disciples which is your view. But the text says otherwise.

    Matthew 7:28-29
    And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.

    So as you can clearly see, the crowds were astonished at his teaching and it says that he was teaching them.

    #818240
     terraricca 
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    so you have now void all other scriptures in your mind good for you ,

    so i wonder if you would have done so if you would be one of his disciples,

    either you going to be honest to the whole scriptures or be to none/

    you seem to see what you want not what is written ,
    ‘ how many people around the world have listen to the sermon on the mountain millions ,how many have understood it in the deep understanding ?

    those people will all agree it was a teaching ,but at what level ? if it was so obvious why would Jesus find or take the time to teach his apostles separately on those parables ?

    #818242
     t8 
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    So you agree now that Jesus was teaching the crowds too?

    #818245
     terraricca 
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    well if talking to people that really don’t understand what you are meaning is called teaching according to you well may be we can call it teaching of whatever they understood of it ,I all ways understood that teaching means explain the meaning of what you say in details ,but i could be wrong

    you can believe what you want for you have to deny one scripture for another

    #818253
     t8 
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    And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he was teaching them

    It is not I who says he was teaching the crowd, it is scripture. Jesus taught in parables. But often he was straight up with his disciples. Teaching in parables is still teaching and you can grasp the meaning of a parable even without further explanation.

    #818254
     t8 
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    so you have now void all other scriptures in your mind good for you ,

    The opposite. I am patiently showing you things that are written. When you say things that are not correct, I show you scripture. I know you get upset about it, but that must be a pride thing. We should both rejoice at truth. We are here to learn. If we are stubborn, then we can go no further and therefore our presence in this world is no longer useful.

    #818255
     terraricca 
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    NO,YOU DON’T DO SUCH A THING ,YOU DON’T EVEN ANswer my questions ,but go on defending your view ,this is not looking for the truth ,this is imposing your view ,

    you seem to only surface learning and kill the real truth ,

    I have answered your question #1 with scriptures but you have not respond only moved on ,it is like me fighting with my self

    #818256
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    You denied that Jesus was teaching the crowds and I showed you that he was.

    I also showed you that Jesus taught in parables, whereas your view was that parables was not teaching.

    Why get so upset about learning something true?

    Discussing this was lame in the first place as there are much more important truths to learn, but it seemed important to you so I discussed it with you for you sake.

    #818257
     t8 
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    I should also add that a conversation is better when posts are as short as they can be. When you hide answers in long posts, they may not be discovered. I am a believer in letting your yes be yes and no be no. But some such as Kerwin created such long-winded posts that you could never tell if he was answering yes or no. If I have missed any of your answers then please bear this in mind. If you make a post with ‘Yes’ / “No”, then I will know straight away you have answered. If you post the exact answer to a question, especially if the question is quoted, then that will highlight your answer. When I see some of your posts here, they are very long and sometimes just scripture. So I don’t see an answer, I see the material that we are discussing, but not your view or answer on it. Keep it simple if you wish people to see your answer. Remember that time is precious and people will not want to spend large amounts of time shuffling through sand to get one nugget if they are lucky.

    #818260
     terraricca 
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    t8

    (

    well if talking to people that really don’t understand what you are meaning is called teaching according to you well may be we can call it teaching of whatever they understood of it ,I all ways understood that teaching means explain the meaning of what you say in details ,but i could be wrong

    you can believe what you want for you have to deny one scripture for another)

     

    is this to long ?

    (

    you seem to see what you want not what is written ,
    ‘ how many people around the world have listen to the sermon on the mountain millions ,how many have understood it in the deep understanding ?

    those people will all agree it was a teaching ,but at what level ? if it was so obvious why would Jesus find or take the time to teach his apostles separately on those parables ?)

    is this to long ?

    Mt 13:3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.
    Mt 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
    Mt 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
    “Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
    Mt 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.
    Mt 13:35 So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
    “I will open my mouth in parables,
    I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”
    Mt 13:53 When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there.
    Mt 21:45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them.
    Mt 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:

    these are the scriptures you void when you argue with me ;

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