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TC…..JESUS wasn’t the one saying , “Destory this temple and in three days I (God), shall raise ‘it’ up”. That was GOD the Father speaking first person through Jesus’ mouth. Or haven’t you ever read , “know you not that your body “IS THE TEMPLE OD THE LIVING GOD”.
God is spirit and can live in us, he considers our bodies as temple he can live in, lik he did Jesus, Therefore it say , ” Now if the spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the grave dwell in you he (GOD) shall “also”, quicken your mortal bodies”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Gene:
Please answer the questions I posed to you and which you have refuse to answer but sidesteo
….John 1:14 And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
….John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I WILL RAISE IT UP. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
….documentation anywhere that shows you are not a gnostic and I am.
….John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
TC……Why have you not answered my posts as I have written them. ARE YOU TRYING TO AVOID THEM, because they diSagres with what you preach.
Peace and love to you and yours ………..gene
Hi TC,
Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God.
Build on this divinely established truth and your foolish nonsense will evaporate.
Hi Nick
As far as I’m concerned you have no truth, you have false doctrines you see everything through your doctrines. Nick you use scripture. Try repentance of your ways (falseness) and ask the Spirit of God to guide you. I study God’s Word every day with prayer and meditation upon His Word, believe it or not His Spirit guides me into all truth. For one Nick you need to get your Salvation plan right. first things first. Here a little there a little line upon line. ? Why haven’t you a knowledge this simple thing about Gnostic – Adoptionism, you could easily search this out.
God bless. What is the truth about this? You just talk no Scripture No searching.
Hi Anthony,
Stop judging and start searching.
Seek ye first the The kingdom of God and everything else will be added to you.
Hi All,
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born (1080. gennaó) again (509. anóthen), he cannot see the kingdom of God.
G1080. gennaó Word Origin
from genna (descent, birth)
Definition
to beget, to bring forth509. anóthen
Definition: from above
Usage: (a) from above, from heaven, (b) from the beginning, from their origin (source), from of old, (c) again, anew.Me: So in other words, “Except a man be brought forth from above” he cannot see the kingdom of God. When he is born from above, he is born again.
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Me: John 3:3 pertains to mind and heart, body, and spirit, i.e. a new person. This is finalize when we receive new bodies at Christ’s return. In fact, the whole creation will be under the dominion of man with Christ as its absolute head at first, then our heavenly Father afterwards. All will be born again.
So born again is synonymous with born from the dead or begotten (born) from the dead. Christ was not begotten of the holy spirit at birth nor at Jordan. Instead, the Word became one with flesh. The human embryonal was begotten by God in the womb of Mary.
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (4416. prototokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn (4416. prototokos) of every creature: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
4416. prototokos:
Definition: first-born
Usage: first-born, eldest.Me: So 4416. prototokos can mean first begotten or first born. It obviously means firstborn in Col 1:15 and Rev 1:5.
Isa 43: 20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.
Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one (not no man) speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.Me: The beasts, not just man will be of the one spirit, the holy spirit as their life source.
New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.Christ was begotten of Mary of the seed of David. Now a seed is a spiritual quality that gives bloom to a body of that spiritual quality. This spiritual quality is the spirit and the mind and heart of that spirit. The seed is the human heart and mind of the David descended from Mary. It had the holy spirit from the Word and not spirit of the world. The body of Christ was of that seed. It was made similar to the body of the rest of mankind but of a higher order (1 Cor 15:40 above) that could be translated into a body of the spirit. It could walk through walls.
New American Standard Bible
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten (one of a Kind) from the Father, full of grace and truth.King James 2000 Bible
That is, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Me: The express image of God, his Word, was with God and is God (John 1:1-2). The Word in Christ was fully in him from conception. The Word did not diminish. The mind and heart of the flesh of the Messiah grew in its bond with the Word in him.
John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:
Hi All,
New American Standard Bible
Psalm 8:4 What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him? 5 Yet You have made him (NIV,NLT: them) a little lower than God, And You crown him (NIV,NLT: them) with glory and majesty! 6 You make him (them: NIV,NLT) to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his (NIV,NLT: their) FEET 7 All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field,Gen 1:26 And God (John 1:1-3) said, Let us (majestic plural: singular) make man in our (majestic plural: singular) image, after our (majestic plural: singular) likeness: and let them (majestic plural: singular) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Eph 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Me: Christ, then the Church under him inherits this name. It is the name now unknown name of our heavenly Father.
Young’s Literal Translation:
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 of whom the whole family in the heavens and on earth is named,New International Version
Judges 13:18 He replied, “Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding.”Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?
Me: We call upon the name (unknown) of Yashua to save us.
The rest of mankind inherits this name. Christ and the church worships the Father (Heb 2:12). Our heavenly Father does not have knees, he is wholly spirit. Every knee bows (including the church) bows down to Christ.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his FEET 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
New American Standard Bible
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.Me: Our bodies our the last step to be redeemed. Then we are born again.
In turn, all will be under the father. All will have the holy spirit as their only life source, not the spirit of the air as presently. Both man and beast will praise God.
2 Cor 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 5 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Me: Believers now only have the earnest of the holy spirit. We are begotten, not born again yet.
Hi All,
NKJV
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God…14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.Psakn 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Me: This glory is reflected in John 17:1-4 and Rev 21:22 below. It is one glory. Yasha received that glory by his resurrection from the dead and glorification after his ascension unto the father. Notice, our heavenly Father is not speaking to an embryo but to a fully adult person.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Me: In John 1:14 above, the Word became one with the man Yasha. The Word was strictly spirit and became one with flesh in the man, Yasha. Notice, the Word became “one with flesh” and not “became flesh”, I feel, is a better translation. This is similar to Adam and Eve becoming one flesh. They became bonded together in mind and spirit. Christ and regenerated man has both a spirit mind and a human mind. These are two aspects of the one mind in Christ and his church. The human mind of Yashal grew in its bond with the spirit mind, the Word of God. The Word or God was fully in Christ at conception of the man born of flesh similar to ours but of higher order with no sin. Christ could walk through walls.
John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God and Jesus Christ (John 14:6 below) whom You have sent. 4. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
New American Standard Bible:
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” …9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father …10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.Me: In the OT the Word was the spokesman for God and was God. God speaks through his image. That image was displayed in a theophany, for example, Melchesedec. We see and hear God both actually and metaphorically through his image. That image is Christ.
Me: The glory of God and his Word in John 1:1 is now the glory of God and his Word in Rev 19:13 below. The only true God above in John 17:3 is the true God revealed and expressed in John 14:6.
Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war…13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Hi All,
The Word of God was the spiritual image of God who became bonded to flesh as son of God. He grew in that bond and became the only Son of God born from the dead. We are adopted sons of God when we bond with Christ.
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
New American Standard Bible:
2 Cor 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.Me: We are created in the image of God, that image being Christ.
New American Standard Bible:
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. ..18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God WORSHIP him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
New American Standard Bible:
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.” …9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father …10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.New King James Version
Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God (the Messiah) He created him; male and female He created them.Me: God created man in his image, which is Christ. Gen 1:27 was not the final product or image. After Adam ate of the tree of Good and Evil, he became like God in this respect. Christ is the finisher of that image. There is nothing about angels created in God’s image. In the OT the Word was the spokesman for God and was God. God speaks through his image. That image was displayed in a theophany, for example, Melchesedec. We see and hear God through his image. That image is Christ.
John 5:37 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
New American Standard Bible:
Isa 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name WILL BE called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.Me: We see and hear God through his express image or son both actually and metaphorically. God was expressed as Theophanys like melchizedek.
New American Standard Bible:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word [(the express) image of God} was with God, and the Word was God.
New International Version1 Tim 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htmMe: No one has seen (perceive) nor can see (perceive: hear or see) the father actually or metaphorically
Me: The Word was God expressed to us.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one...33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Me: Even the Jews knew that Christ was claiming to be God.
All emphasis in the parenthesis are mine.
Hi Jodi and all,
You: The One True God our heavenly Father speaking to David giving David prophecy concerning David’s son said,
Psalms 2:7 (KJV) “Thou art my Son; THIS DAY have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.”Me:
New American Standard Bible
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him (our heavenly Father) that is TRUE, and we are in him that is TRUE, even in his Son JESUS CHRIST. This is the true God, and eternal life.Me: The Word is God. The Word together with the seed of David is God joined to flesh. The Messiah is of the True God and is the Son of God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.Me: The Word was WITH God and was and is God.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not…
Me: The Word is God and does not Change.
John 1:14 And the Word was “made flesh”, and dwelled among us…
Me: The Word of God who is God does not change. The Word of God became one with the man Yasha. This is similar to Adam and Eve became one flesh.
John 1:14 and we beheld (GK:2300. theaomai) his glory, the glory as of the ONLY begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
Me: When did this happen?
2300. theaomai
Usage: Usage: I see, behold, CONTEMPLATE, look upon, view; I see, visit.Psalm 2:7 (KJV) I WILL DECLARE THE DECREE: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten (borne) thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance (Rev 21:7 below), and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Heb 5:5 So also CHRIST glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art MY Son, to day have I begotten (born or brought forth) thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Me: You forgot the important first part of Psalm 2:7, “I WILL DECLARE THE DEGREE”. What is the decree? “thou art MY SON” TODAY I have begotten thee. This was a prophecy of the Messiah being born of God from the dead in heaven as his son, or the son of God fully. Similarity, we are called the sons of God now (but only fully sons of God if we endure to the end). Was God speaking to the embryo in womb of Mary. No, he was addressing his now fully matured son who would inherit all things. God’s glory as the Son of God was achieved in ONE DAY, it was not a continuously process from Jordan or at his human conception.
New American Standard Bible
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn (first begotten) of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood.Me: There was no need for the Messiah to be born or begotten of the holy spirit at conception nor at Jordon. The Word was fully God and bonded as one with the flesh of Son of David at conception. He was born the Son of God, at the resurrection from the dead. He was born the Son of Man from conception.
New American Standard Bible
Rev 21:7 “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.Me: Did the Messiah fully overcame all of his trails? Did he not become the Son of God with the power of the holy spirit after his resurrection from the dead? Do we not become fully the sons of God at our deaths after we endure to the end?
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead…2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him…
Me: The vision of when the Messiah is resurrected from the dead and glorified is the son of God that is well pleasing to God.Rom 1:4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
New American Standard Bible
Eccl 7:1…And the day of one’s death is better than the day of one’s birth.Me: The Messiah was born the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven. This did not happen either at birth or at Jordon. He is the ONLY TRUE son of God. The Word of God always existed. The Word of God became one with the flesh of the seed of David.
There is only ONE person called the true Son of God, and that is the Messiah. We become the adopted sons of God through the Messiah. He is the image of God or template of God by which we are created (Gen 1:27, 2 Cor 2:4). He had the power of the holy spirit by his glorification In heaven just before Pentecost, not a Jordan.Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into kingdom of his dear Son:
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake…20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Me: We are God’s son because we put on a new person, the Son of God.
Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Me: Is or was the Messiah a liar? He either was a liar or was God. I prefer God. He is the only Son of God, or the invisible God expressed.
Hi Jodi and All,
New American Standard Bible
John 1:33 “I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit..Me: It was the holy spirit descending UPON, not in Christ that identified him to John the Baptist as the Christ.
John 1: 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
New American Standard Bible
Psalm 8:4 What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him? 5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God (from the original Hebrew), And You crown him with glory and majesty!Me: It is NOT“what is man that you take thought of him and that you care for him” but “What is man that You take thought of him, and the son of man that You care for him? Why not just “man” and not “man and the son of man” in Psalm 8:4 if the Messiah was just a man. I believe it is because Christ is both the son of man and the son of God. He is the (Son of God) of man, or the son of man. He is God’s son…of man.
Me: Jesus the Christ means the anointed saviour.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1984/04/jesus-the-christ-the-words-and-their-meaning?lang=engIsa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ (the anointed saviour) is come in ___ flesh is of God:
Me: Anointed salvation came “IN FLESH” and NOT came “IN THE FLESH”. “the” is an added word. And who is this that came into flesh to be our savior?
Young’s Literal Translation:
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us,…Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Me: No one in the OT was called the son of God by being born of the spirit. We are all rather “translated” (Col 1:13) into his Son’s kingdom and thus become the sons of God through him. This is after we are BAPTIZED by the holy spirit, i.e. we die and are buried with the Messiah through baptism of the spirit. Then we arise we the spirit of God with the heart of a man in it, the Messiah.
With all the above in mind, I will answer the rest of your questions.
Hi Jodi,
You: When did our One True God the Father’s own WORD spoken to the prophet Isaiah that Isaiah wrote in chapters 11, 42, and 61 go from being God’s promise to actually existing in the flesh, IN a Son of Man?
Me: The Word becoming flesh was only the first step. What good is it just to exist in the flesh for its own sake, There has to be a reason. The promise was received after Pentecost. That promise was salvation and everlasting life by being able to be baptized by the holy spirit. We are baptized in the death of the human mind of Christ in the holy spirit.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Me: God would guide Christ by putting his spirit UPON him because his spirit was in him.
Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
New American Standard Bible:
John 1:33 “I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.Me: The descending of the dove “ON”, NOT “IN” Christ was to identify who the Messiah is. Notice, it is the holy spirit continuously on Christ that Guides him through the circumstances surrounding him. Even the devil knew this. For example:
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: 10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: 11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
You: What was our One True God our Father’s “promise”, meaning His WORD, that He gave to mankind before the world was? His WORD was a promise of eternal life.
Me: Yes, by his death and resurrection from the dead.
You: How is it that we have eternal life TC? Who is it that we are directly told we must believe in to have eternal life according to John? The Son of Man that is who, David’s son who God anointed with His Spirit according to Isaiah 11, 42, and 61, of which Jesus himself quoting Isaiah was fulfilled upon his baptism, as Jesus says he was ANOINTED and SENT out. That anointing we are told is OF the SPIRIT, that anointing we are told made him FULL of the Spirit and power, that anointing we are told says that GOD was IN him. All equate to Jesus having been begotten by God, born that day at the river of God’s Spirit.
Me:
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Me: The Son of David without the Word (John 1:1,2,14) in him is of no avail at all. The Messiah was the Son of God firstly. He was the Son of man or the (Son of God) of man, not of angels. He was not just a man.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son (Son of God), this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 5 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Me: Christ is the literal Son of God from being begotten or born from the dead. The Word of God, who is the spiritual image of God became one fully in the man of the seed of David. The Word in the Messiah did not diminish or grow from inception. What grew was the bond between the humanity of the Messiah and the Word of God.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet ____because that Jesus was not yet glorified.
Me: Chris’s humanity grew in the bond with the Word until his resurrection and glorification.
Hi Jodi,
You: Yes scripture definitely does not say that CHRIST was begotten of the Spirit at his birth. If you mean Christ as in Jesus the anointed, we are told by Jesus himself and in the book of Acts exactly when Jesus became anointed with the Spirit becoming thus the Christ. To be begotten of the Spirit, thus born of God, makes you the Christ, as the promised Messiah was to be the one anointed with the Spirit without measure and with power, a glory that God said He would not give to any other.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Me: Neither was the Messiah begotten of God at Jordan. God was born fully of God after his resurrection form the dead and his ascension into heaven. We, on the other hand, are “born again” after our deaths. We are born of the holy spirit before that.
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also GLORIFIED TOGETHER. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Me: We too become born of the dead and are glorified together with the Son of God as he is glorified together with his father (John 17:5) and our father.
Hi Jodi
You: TC God’s WORD is His Spoken WISDOM, it is often Spoken as concerning the future speaking of His Plan. Before the world was God promised eternal life for mankind, which God brings to us through the death of the perfected Son of Man who God then raises up from the dead with glory and places him, this seed of David, as was promised, at His right hand giving him, this Son of Man, the heavenly man, the second Adam, dominion over all the works of the One True God our Father’s Hands.
As we are told by the prophet David that it is the Son of Man that God crowns with glory and sets him to have dominion over the works of His hands.Me: It is God’s son made of man in conjunction with the Word of God in him. Together, this makes for the son of God. It is not just man. It is the SON of God….of MAN.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Me: God is our only saviour. There is none else. The Word became one with the flesh of the seed of David at the Messiah’s conception. The Word is the express image of God and is God. The Word together with the form of the seed of David is the image of God and is God.
Hos 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt (a type of sin), and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Me: Egypt is symbolic of sin. God delivers us out of sin through his Son, the Son of God, which is the SON of God OF MAN. The son of God delivers us sin to salvation.
Hi Jodi,
You: What was the GLORY TC that the people beheld? They certainly did not see some NON FLESH only begotten Son.
The glory that the people beheld was Jesus of Nazareth who had been anointed with the Spirit SENT out to do good deeds, miraculous deeds, and speak God’s word. The glory they beheld was a man in the form of God because God was in him, having all the powers of God. They watched this mortal Jesus in the flesh do that which God’s WORD had said Jesus would do according to the prophets. They witnessed him heal, raise the dead, control the wind, walk on water, multiply food to feed the hungry, speak not his own word, but God’s WORD with authority. Jesus had been filled with the Spirit given grace and truth, Jesus of Nazareth became the only human begotten by God’s Spirit without measure in full power.Me: Christ grew in spirit after Jordan. He was glorified by his father with the full power of the holy spirit by his resurrection and then glorification (Rom 1:4). When Christ did all the things you have just mentioned, he grew in the spirit. His capacity to grow in holy spirit grew as he produced more fruit.
Your emphasis on the flesh is astonishing to the point of idolatry.
TC…..where did Jodi ever say the Son is true God, those are your word not hers. Those words are what idolaters teach. We teach JESUS IS A PURE HUMAN, how the Father Was “in” via his Holy Spirit, but we never teach Or portal Jesus as a God or deity of anyking. Thats what you preexisteners do.
Your work and others here is to SEPERATE JESUS FROM THE REST OF MANKIND, HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS . Your doctrine is the “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION “, and that is EXACTLY what Satan wants preached by his followers. His drive is to decieve mankind into “SEPERATING” themselves FROM JESUS, and their own likeness, so they lose FAITH in GOD the Father, Something Jesus never did.
Jodi has explained all this apsolutely corect. You would do good to listen to what she has written and so would everyone else here. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Gene
You: TC…..where did Jodi ever say the Son is true God, those are your word not hers. Those words are what idolaters teach. We teach JESUS IS A PURE HUMAN, how the Father Was “in” via his Holy Spirit, but we never teach Or portal Jesus as a God or deity of anyking. Thats what you preexisteners do.
Me: I never said that Jodi said that the Son of God is the true God. I quoted Jodi where she said that only the Father was and is the true God.
Again:
New American Standard Bible
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him (our heavenly Father) that is TRUE, and we are in him that is TRUE, even in his Son JESUS CHRIST. This is the true God, and eternal life.Me: Can you not see that the Word is the express image of God and is of he one true God. There is only one God (John 1:1-2)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Me: So what does it mean that the “Word was God”.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: So what does it mean that the Word became flesh. Did the Word who is God, and God does not change, become flesh? Or did the Word and flesh become bonded as one?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Me: There is one God: the invisible God and his expression of himself in his Word. There is only one that is Salvation, God.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Me: Did not the Word of God become the son of God by the resurrection from the dead?
You: Your work and others here is to SEPERATE JESUS FROM THE REST OF MANKIND, HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS . Your doctrine is the “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION “, and that is EXACTLY what Satan wants preached by his followers. His drive is to decieve mankind into “SEPERATING” themselves FROM JESUS, and their own likeness, so they lose FAITH in GOD the Father, Something Jesus never did.
Me:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Me: Does not this verse indicate the opposite of what you are saying?
Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Me: Is or was the Messiah a liar? He either was a liar or was God. I prefer God. He is the only Son of God, or the invisible God expressed.
Numbers 23:9 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Me: Did the Messiah lie? Did he repent? The Messiah is the Word that became the only true son of God. He is God’s son literally. He is not flesh that became the Son of God, but the spiritual image of God (the Word) that took on flesh. He is the SON OF GOD of man…
Gene,
You wrote: TC…..frist of all as I recall, Thomas said ”my lord (lower case) and my God.” Now you should know that the lower case lord, means a human ruler, or magstrate, like a judge etc. While the upper case LORD , MEANS ALMIGHTY GOD.
The lower case lord never implies GOD , IT comes from the word ADONI, meaning a human ruler, while the upper case LORD, comes from the word ADONIA, has a complete different meaning. You need proof? Go to http://www.restorationfellowship.org, they have a complete explanation of the deference meanings of those words.Me: There is not one instance in the NT where “LORD” is capitalized as such. It is always rendered “Lord”, even when referring to the father or the Messiah. In the OT, LORD is used is the unauthorized name man has given to almighty God in place of the name YHWH. “Lord” (Adonay in the OT can be found referring to God and not the Messiah only. Below are instances of this. According to you, “Lord” refers to the Messiah only or men of rank. Not true. It can and does refer to YHWH. When YHWH is used, it emphases God’s existence “I AM”. When “Lord” is used, it emphases his sovereignty and rulership.
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/136.htm
b. Adonay proper name of God, parallel with Yahweh, substitution for it often by scribal error, & eventually supplanting it. In earlier Isaiah 3:17 + (19 t. seeming to belong here), Amos 7:7,8; Amos 9:1; Ezekiel 18:25,29; Ezekiel 33:17,20; Ezekiel 21:14 (probably ׳אֲדֹנָי י as in usual phrase); Zechariah 9:4; Malachi 1:12,14; Lamentations 1:14 + (14 t.) Psalm 2:4; Psalm 37:13; Psalm 78:65; Psalm 90:17 (? יהוה) Psalm 110:5 (Dalman puts most of these below (a); — many cases are doubtful); 1 Kings 3:10,15 (Masoretic אדני for יהוה compare Dalm 2 Kings 7:6; Dalm rightly questions; he reads יהוה). The phrases אֲדֹנָי אֱלֹהַי Psalm 38:16; Psalm 86:12, Adonay my God; אֲדֹנָי הָאֱלֹהִים Daniel 9:3, אֱלֹהֵינוּ ׳א Daniel 9:9,15, הָאֵל ׳א Daniel 9:4 favour taking ׳א Daniel 1:2; Daniel 9:7,8 (יהוה ?) Daniel 9:16; Daniel 9:17; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19; Daniel 9:19 as the divine
name.Me: There are many instances of “Lord” or Adonay used in the OT referring to almighty God:
Psalm 8:1 To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.]] O LORD (YHWH) our Lord (Kyrios), how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psalm 69:6 Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord (Adonay) GOD (YHWH) of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel.
Amos 7:7 Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord (Adonay)stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. 8 And the LORD (YHWH) said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more: 8 And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:
Me: The “Lord” in verse 7 is the same “LORD” in verse 8.
Quote: “In a word, No – the divine name, YHWH, does not appear in any NT text, nor does any NT writer allude to it. Of the many OT quotations in the NT that include the divine name in the original Hebrew texts (e.g. Mt.3:3; 22:37; Mk.12:29; Lk.4:18), none carry ‘YHWH’ forward into Greek. All use the generic Adonay, or ‘Lord’, most likely because NT writers almost always – in 307 of 340 cases (per Archer and Chirichigno) – quoted the Greek LXX rather than translate from Hebrew, if they even knew the language.”
Below are instances where “Lord” (Kurios) refers to the Father in the NT:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord (2962:Kurios), and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord (2962:Kurios), God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Me: Obviously those with eyes can see that “Lord” in Rev 11:15 and Rev 21:22 are referring to our heavenly Father.
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