The Creations of Genesis 1 & 2 and John 1

This topic contains 211 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Truthcomber 1 month, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #832364
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    FOREKNOWN does not mean ANOINTED.

    #832365
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi Gene,

    Do you have any real evidence for mistranslation of judgement and condemnation?

    #832366
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    PREORDAINED does not mean ANOINTED.

    #832367
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

     

    You wrote:

     

    Called does not mean anointed

    Chosen does not mean anointed

    Foreknown does not mean anointed.

     

    Me:

     

    This is what you think, not what you have proven.

     

    When one is anointed or consecrated by God, he is called and chosen by God for a particular purpose. God foreknew who would be anointed in real time.

     

    Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

     

    Me:

     

    Christ is the most powerful entity below God Almighty. The oil here is the holy spirit. This anointing was done in the mind of God and preordained before Christ came into existence and then glorified. Notice “hath anointed” in verse 7. He was anointed to be salvation from eternity The anointing in the Jordan River was a different anointing, that of being able to do the work of God with power and miracles. God can anoint same person a thousand times for different reasons if he wanted to.

     

    http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4886.htm

     

    Hebrew Definition:
    to smear, anoint
    NASB Translation
    anoint (21), anointed (42), anointing (1), oil (1), painting (1), spread (4).

     

    Greek definition:

    1. chrió

    Short Definition: I anoint
    Definition: I anoint, consecrate by anointing.

     

     

    Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

     

    Me:

     

    This anoiting was done before the Jordan River. The name Jesus Christ means salvation from God’s anointed.  This was his birth name.

    The whole point of all this was to dispute the notion of the Trinitarians that John 17:5 proves that Christ preexisted as God. . So if you prefer to use preordained instead of anointed, then fine.

     

    Since anointed is an English word, we can find the definition in most dictionaries.

     

    Cambridge dictionary

    to put water or oil on someone in a religious ceremony:

    The archbishop was anointed in a ceremony at the cathedral.

    Anoint also means to choose someone or something for a particular job or purpose; designate:

     

    #832368
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

    You wrote:

    PREORDAINED does not mean ANOINTED.

    Me:

    Yes, Ok.  But God always thinks before he does something.  Sometimes anointing is preordained–sometimes not.  But God does not do anything rashly without thinking or planning.

    #832369
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    The anointing was DONE IN THE MIND OF GOD.

    Any scriptures for this kind of anointing?

    #832370
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Acts 10 tells us that JESUS OF NAZARETH WAS ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER.

    Not the unnamed embryo or the infant or the child Jesus.

    The anointing is always manifested.

    Such manifestations only occurred after the Jordan.

    You seem to be speaking from sort of theological base here.

    #832371
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Yes God planned the anointing. That is not ANOINTING.

    Kings and prophets He planned to anoint as well, then He did so.

    We know that Jeremiah was consecrated and appointed before his birth,

    and that John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit in Elizabeth’s womb.

    Scripture does not say such things about Jesus so we do not make presumptions.

     

    Neither do we deny his anointing at the Jordan.

    #832372
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    You say

    JESUS CHRIST WAS HIS BIRTH NAME.???

    Matt.1.25

    ..and he called his name Jesus.

     

    #832373
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi TC,

    Yes the PROPHETIC WORD in Ps 45, and Isaiah, which Jesus quoted in the temple tell of the ANOINTING of the servant Jesus.

    ‘The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor..’

    This Is PROPHECY.

     

    #832374
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

     

    Acts 10

    ..Jesus of Nazareth was ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER…

    You said that he was foreknown, called, chosen, consecrated…

    None of those definitions include the Holy Spirit.

     

    The anointing is more specific and it happened at the Jordan

    #832375
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

     

    You wrote:

    The anointing was DONE IN THE MIND OF GOD.

    Any scriptures for this kind of anointing?

     

    Me:

    Read your statement below.

    Yes the PROPHETIC WORD in Ps 45, and Isaiah, which Jesus quoted in the temple tell of the ANOINTING of the servant Jesus.

    ‘The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor..’

    This Is PROPHECY.

    Me:

    Yes it is prophecy. But it had to be in the mind of God first before it became a reality. What God prophecies is true because he absolutely believes it  true before it comes to pass.

     

    Romans 4:17…God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

    Matt 21:20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! 21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

    Prov 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is it (H 1931:hu or hi).

     

    Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:… But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken…13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon

    precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    Me: Most of the time, you will not find a verse that precisely says what you seek, but with God’s help you must put the verses together to find what you seek. The words of God are now hidden to most.

    Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

    Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    Me: We will be kings, we should put scripture together to find a point, not say that it is not explicitly written.  Most understanding is not.

    #832376
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
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    Hi Nick,

     

    You wrote:

    Acts 10 tells us that JESUS OF NAZARETH WAS ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER.

    Not the unnamed embryo or the infant or the child Jesus.

    The anointing is always manifested.

    Such manifestations only occurred after the Jordan.

    You seem to be speaking from sort of theological base here.

    Me:

    You got to be kidding me. If You say that John the Baptist had the spirit of God in him in his mother’s womb, and that Jeremiah was consecrated and appointed before his birth, these two lesser than the Messiah, that the son of God did not have the spirit of God in him from birth because it was not written explicitly.

     

    Mark 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    Me: The Messiah was the only son begotten with the spirit of God in his mother’s womb. John the Baptist was not begotten in his mother’s womb, he was born of the spirit from his mother’s womb. Christ was anointed as savior and the son of God in his Father’s bosom from eternity as I have shown you.

    #832377
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Why would what happens to other prophets make it certain for you that it MUST HAVE happened with the Great Prophet spoken of by Moses?.Acts 3.22

    Logic and inference are never useful in determining the truth of God.

    Find it WRITTEN please.

    #832378
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
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    Hi Nick:

     

    You wrote:

    Yes God planned the anointing. That is not ANOINTING.

    Kings and prophets He planned to anoint as well, then He did so.

    We know that Jeremiah was consecrated and appointed before his birth,

    and that John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit in Elizabeth’s womb.

    Scripture does not say such things about Jesus so we do not make presumptions.

    Me:

    The Messiah was anointed in the mind of God as already done long before Jesus Christ’s planned arrival.  That is the true anointing, by the spirit of God.

    Luke 1:15 John the Baptist was filled with the holy spirit from his mother’s womb, not in his mother’s womb, for the Messiah was the only begotten son of God in his mother’s womb from conception ( John 1:18).

    #832379
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi TC,

    You think because God is his real father he MUST HAVE had the Holy Spirit before birth?

    Why do you trust logic and inference so much?

    Find it written please.

     

    #832380
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
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    Hi Nick,

     

     

    You said:

    You say

    JESUS CHRIST WAS HIS BIRTH NAME.???

    Matt.1.25

    ..and he called his name Jesus.

    Me: Come on Nick, we are all called by our birth names. Let’s try to find the truth, not just to be right.

     

    #832381
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 641

    Nick wrote:

    You think because God is his real father he MUST HAVE had the Holy Spirit before birth?

    Why do you trust logic and inference so much?

    Find it written please.

    Me:

    I have shown you all the scriptures and put them together for you.  You want explicit scriptures that say exactly what you seek–doesn’t happen often when seeking deeper understanding.

    Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

    #832382
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
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    Hi Nick:

    You wrote:

    Acts 10

    ..Jesus of Nazareth was ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER…

    You said that he was foreknown, called, chosen, consecrated…

    None of those definitions include the Holy Spirit.

    Me:

    They all do.  I had shown you.

    #832383
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,700

    Hi TC,

    Put scriptures together to find a point?

    Such patchwork quilting of verses has led to major errors.

    2 Cor 13.1 is the way the bible recommends, and there are two or three witnesses to that verse.

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