The bodies of satan, demons, and angels

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,22:38)

This is a conversation involving me and Mike after the late spun off a new line of conversation based on some of Wakeup's words.

Quote

What do you say, Kerwin? Are Satan and his angels flesh beings? Were the demons who possessed human beings flesh beings themselves? They were called “spirits” after all, right?

Are demons fallen angels. Maybe, maybe not though I believe they are because Satan leads them and they behave like him in oppressing mankind bodily and spiritually.

Luke 22:3 ****Then entered Satan into Judas**** surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Wakeup.

October 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm#359291

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All………..Demons are Spirits (intellects) that can inter any Body and effect it in adverse ways, the can completely take over it and control it and Speak through it. Demons are not angels IMO, Just as not spirit is and angel of a human being that are what is “IN” angels and Human being. Spirit is what produces life they supply their particular intellect to angels and humans, they come in all types and kinds, they are what life is, producing their own cognate intelligence in a Being. If they are not in a Body they go about in a ARID or DRY Condition always seeking something alive they can go in and influence. They do not have rest unless they are in a body of some kind, just as Jesus said “when an unclean spirit leaves a man “IT” goes about in “ARID” places seeking “REST” , and if it returns back into the body it came out of, it brings with it more spirits like it self, and the last state of that man is worse then the first”. So we need to be careful what Spirit (intellects) we are sowing into us, It is all about the mind, so we need to think on the clean and good things and we will invite the good spirits (intellects) into our hearts and minds, not the evil and unclean ones. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………………..gene

October 4, 2013 at 9:12 pm#359294

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 04 2013,21:42)

peace and love to you all…………………………………..gene

Gene,

This is not about whether or not demons are creatures that tremble in fear at their coming destruction as a result of their faith in God.

October 4, 2013 at 10:12 pm#359295

Blocked

Kerwin,

If you believe demons are fallen angels, as I believe, then doesn't that prove that angels are spirits?

Also, many times in the NT, these demons were said to be inside of a person before being driven out. Consider the story of Legion, who went from the man into the pigs. It sounds to me like the many demons were actually inside of the man, and then went into the pigs. It didn't sound to me like these beings were elsewhere, controlling the man or the pigs from a distance.

Also, I came across this in my daily Bible reading today:

2 Chronicles 18
18 I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the hosts of heaven standing on his right and on his left.

19 And the LORD said, “Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?” One suggested this, and another that.

20 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, “I will entice him.”

I believe these “hosts of heaven” are angels, and the “spirit” in verse 20 was one of those angels who were standing on God's right and left.

October 5, 2013 at 12:22 am#359299

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 05 2013,02:42)

peace and love to you all…………………………………..gene

Evil spirits are in the millions,and all have their
intelligents.
Fallen angels are creatures with each their own behaviour.
Satan is a creature also with his intelligents to plan his
works. He is not just like the wind blowing with no body and no brain.

The war in heaven was creature against creature
in battle.
The spirit of evil in man is the mind being influenced
by satan or his creatures.Or man possessed,by one or more
of those creatures.

One man was possessed by a legion of those creatures
pleading not to be send into the deep.

Eve was *influenced* by the serpent.
She was not *thinking* of eating the fruit,because she does not know what is good or what is evil.

To say that satan is just mans evil thinking is doing him a great favour. For he likes us to believe that he is not.
That it's all mans mind.

Angels are creatures,and so are fallen angels,and holy angels.
Evil spirits are the souls of the dead giants and their families.
For the are hybrids.

wakeup.

October 5, 2013 at 1:16 pm#359308

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2013,18:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,22:38)

This is a conversation involving me and Mike after the late spun off a new line of conversation based on some of Wakeup's words.

Quote

What do you say, Kerwin? Are Satan and his angels flesh beings? Were the demons who possessed human beings flesh beings themselves? They were called “spirits” after all, right?

Are demons fallen angels. Maybe, maybe not though I believe they are because Satan leads them and they behave like him in oppressing mankind bodily and spiritually.

Luke 22:3 ****Then entered Satan into Judas**** surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Wakeup.

Wakeup,

You tend to take these sort of things literal. The question is should it be so taken. Perhaps, though Satan has no real reason to bodily enter Jewish as he is Lord of temptation and Judas chose to fall to it allowing Satan entrance to his heart.

Let us look at Scripture.

John 17:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I am directing your attention to the fact that this Passage testifies God is in believers. It does not say how. A literal interpretation is that the physical location of God's body is in each believer.

What Scripture teaches us elsewhere is different.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (King James Version)

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

As you can plainly see it teaches you that God dwells in believers Spiritually and not bodily as a literal interpretation of John 17:23 would lead you to believe

Satan, whether or not bodily there, dwelt in Judas by the corrupt spirit Judas chose to embrace and that is what is important as the location Satan's body is irrelevant.

Note: Bible gateway went down so I switched to Bible tools which does not have the AKJV.
Note: See how I quoted passages from Scripture and drew the data my points were based on from each passage.

October 5, 2013 at 1:50 pm#359309

Participant

Mike,

Quote

I cover the essential point of this in my last post to Wakeup. Please read that and address the points I raised therein.

Quote

2 Chronicles 18
18 I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the hosts of heaven standing on his right and on his left.

19 And the LORD said, “Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?” One suggested this, and another that.

20 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, “I will entice him.”

I believe these “hosts of heaven” are angels, and the “spirit” in verse 20 was one of those angels who were standing on God's right and left.

I actually referenced this and its parallel passage; in particular Verse 21 and that there was 70 prophets, actually there were 400. Taken literally this spirit transforms into a lying spirit in each of the 400 prophets mouths.

2 Chronicles 18:21
King James Version (KJV)

21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

Now looking as Galatians 5:19-21 a lying spirit is a revelation of the work of the flesh. So, in some manner, the spirit changed into a revelation of a work of the flesh in the mouths of 400 individual prophets. Of course demons are known to tempt people and those who chose to do the works of the flesh reveal they have the evil spirit of that temptation.

Note: Though I am addressing two different things I am calling both the demon and the revelation of the works, spirit.
Note: I may be using the word revelation wrong as a spirit is more like the forest and the work is more like a tree; given a tree is always part of the forest.

October 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm#359311

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,05:38)

Are demons composed of spirit……….

I believe they are not because beings of the realm of heaven as well as God himself are said to dwell in a person though their spirit.

So your conclusion is that God, who lives in the heavenly realms and dwells in people through His Spirit, IS composed of spirit, but all those who live with Him in the heavenly realms are not?

Does it really seem sensible to you that God, who dwells in “unapproachable light”, has a bunch of flesh beings as His neighbors in heaven?

October 5, 2013 at 2:40 pm#359312

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 05 2013,07:50)

Mike,

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

I cover the essential point of this in my last post to Wakeup. Please read that and address the points I raised therein.

Luke 4:41
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah.

But you read it as: “The spirits OF the fleshly demons came out of many people”, right?

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 05 2013,07:50)

Taken literally this spirit transforms into a lying spirit in each of the 400 prophets mouths.

Why the word “transforms”? Was he not a spirit to begin with? And was he not also one of the “hosts of heaven”?

Do you believe the “hosts of heaven” in that verse were angels?

October 5, 2013 at 4:23 pm#359321

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,00:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2013,18:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,22:38)

This is a conversation involving me and Mike after the late spun off a new line of conversation based on some of Wakeup's words.

Quote

What do you say, Kerwin? Are Satan and his angels flesh beings? Were the demons who possessed human beings flesh beings themselves? They were called “spirits” after all, right?

Are demons fallen angels. Maybe, maybe not though I believe they are because Satan leads them and they behave like him in oppressing mankind bodily and spiritually.

Luke 22:3 ****Then entered Satan into Judas**** surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Wakeup.

Wakeup,

Let us look at Scripture.

John 17:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

What Scripture teaches us elsewhere is different.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (King James Version)

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

As you can plainly see it teaches you that God dwells in believers Spiritually and not bodily as a literal interpretation of John 17:23 would lead you to believe

Satan, whether or not bodily there, dwelt in Judas by the corrupt spirit Judas chose to embrace and that is what is important as the location Satan's body is irrelevant.

Note: Bible gateway went down so I switched to Bible tools which does not have the AKJV.
Note: See how I quoted passages from Scripture and drew the data my points were based on from each passage.

Kerwin.

This is where decerning the scriptures comes in.

My questions to you:
1. Are satan and his angels also flesh and bone?
2. If that's the case,are there also female angels?
3. If there are no female angels,then they can not be flesh and bone,because the flesh was created male and female.
4. Will females be resurrected as females? and
males as males?

wakeup.

October 7, 2013 at 11:29 pm#359379

Participant

Wakeup,

Quote

1. Are satan and his angels also flesh and bone?

So you put me in a situation where either answering yes or no to your question is wrong. This is because if I answer yes then I believe you will assume that I mean human flesh but if I say no you will assume I mean spirit. Neither of those assumptions would be true. Thus I am left with an essay answer.

Angels are not human beings and even among angels there are those who have different shapes. The angels that visited Lot were touched and did eat revealing they were not spirit but that they were physical.

Now to call this physical flesh and bone is one more degree of separation from the reasoning that leads to determining they are physical. I feel confident it can be done if you can conceive of a tree being said to be flesh and bone even though the tree's flesh is not human flesh and the tree's bone is not human bone.

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2. If that's the case,are there also female angels?

I don't know. I do know there is no clear evidence there are female angels but I do know if there are it is not for reproductive reasons.

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3. If there are no female angels,then they can not be flesh and bone,because the flesh was created male and female.

That is not even true on earth as there flesh creature that reproduce uni-sexually. As for angels, God sculpted them as he chose and some statues made by men are female and others male even though they do not reproduce.

Quote

4. Will females be resurrected as females? and
males as males?

Yes, as our body is part of who we are, those aspects the shades in Sheol lack.

October 8, 2013 at 2:23 am#359393

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2013,10:29)

Wakeup,

Quote

1. Are satan and his angels also flesh and bone?

Quote

2. If that's the case,are there also female angels?

I don't know. I do know there is no clear evidence there are female angels but I do know if there are it is not for reproductive reasons.

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3. If there are no female angels,then they can not be flesh and bone,because the flesh was created male and female.

Quote

4. Will females be resurrected as females? and
males as males?

Yes, as our body is part of who we are, those aspects the shades in Sheol lack.

There are no scripture evidence.
1. spiritual flesh.
2. Angels of diffferent shapes.
3. Male and female in the resurrection.

These are all additions to scripture by **mans wisdom**
.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they **heap to themselves** teachers, having itching ears;

2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall *turn away* their ears *from the truth*, and shall be turned *unto fables*.

To you; the Word *was spirit* and was made flesh.

And his *reward* is * *flesh*.
You just *can not* comprehend that the spirit can
manifest it self in the flesh if desired.
Just as lucifer manifested himself in the *form of a serpent*.
He also manifested himslef as an angel of light.

Jesus was clear in divining the spirit. He says, **as the wind**.
Flesh and bone is no where near to wind.

wakeup.

October 8, 2013 at 5:56 pm#359417

Participant

Wakeup,

Quote

There are no scripture evidence.
1. spiritual flesh.

2. Angels of different shapes.

3. Male and female in the resurrection.

1) I already did a walkthough to show there is and you have chosen to answer in a like manner.

2) How are you defining angels?

I include cherubims and they do not look like the kind that carry messages. They are the kind that serve as guards.

3) Try these

Matthew 27:52-53
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

See their bodies arose and came out of the graves and appeared unto many.
A woman's body would be?

Revelation 11:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

The breath returned to what?
That what has feet.
Their bodies change gender and arise?

October 8, 2013 at 9:33 pm#359421

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 09 2013,04:56)

Wakeup,

Quote

There are no scripture evidence.
1. spiritual flesh.

2. Angels of different shapes.

3. Male and female in the resurrection.

1) I already did a walkthough to show there is and you have chosen to answer in a like manner.

2) How are you defining angels?

I include cherubims and they do not look like the kind that carry messages. They are the kind that serve as guards.

3) Try these

Matthew 27:52-53
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

See their bodies arose and came out of the graves and appeared unto many.
A woman's body would be?

Revelation 11:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

The breath returned to what?
That what has feet.
Their bodies change gender and arise?

Quote

I include cherubims and they do not look like the kind that carry messages. They are the kind that serve as guards.

ANGELS/CHERUBIMS/SERAPHIMS AND BEASTS WITH ONE HEAD AND 6 WINGS/BEASTS WITH 4 FACES AND 4 WINGS.
ARE ALL OF SPIRIT.

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52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
See their bodies arose and came out of the graves and appeared unto many.
A woman's body would be?

THAT WAS NOT A *RESURRECTION*.
FOR JESUS WAS THE FIRST RESURRECTED.
THAT WAS THE *BRINGING BACK TO LIFE*.
THEY WENT TO THE CITY,NOT TO HEAVEN.
IN THAT CASE,A WOMAN WOULD COME BACK AS A WOMAN.

THAT WILL HAPPEN TO ALL THE JEWS(of all generations), WHEN THEY WILL BE BROUGHT BACK, BY CHOICE INTO THE KINGDOM ON EARTH. THEY WILL BE THE POPULATION IN THE KINGDOM,THE RESURRECTED SAINTS WILL BE IN CHARGE OF THE TEACHINGS.

Quote

Revelation 11:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. The breath returned to what?
That what has feet.
Their dead bodies change gender and arise?

THAT WAS NOT *A RESURRECTION*,BUT A BRINGING BACK TO LIFE. THE SPIRIT OF LIFE WENT **BACK** INTO THEM.
IN THE *RESURRECTION* THE DEAD AND THE LIVING WILL
BE CHANGED INTO A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

LAZARUS WAS *NOT RESURRECTED*,BUT REVIVED.
BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.(BY JESUS).
HE DIED AGAIN. SO WILL ALL BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE, DIE AGAIN.(SECOND DEATH).

wakeup.

October 8, 2013 at 11:15 pm#359428

Blocked

Kerwin,

Last post on page 1?

October 9, 2013 at 2:09 am#359444

Participant

Wakeup,

Quote

ANGELS/CHERUBIMS/SERAPHIMS AND BEASTS WITH ONE HEAD AND 6 WINGS/BEASTS WITH 4 FACES AND 4 WINGS.
ARE ALL OF SPIRIT.

I include all of those that are intelligent and who were created in the realms as angels. Some of those you name may only be symbols as they were only seen in prophetic visions.

Quote

Matthew 27:52-53
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

THAT WAS NOT A *RESURRECTION*.
FOR JESUS WAS THE FIRST RESURRECTED.
THAT WAS THE *BRINGING BACK TO LIFE*.
THEY WENT TO THE CITY,NOT TO HEAVEN.
IN THAT CASE,A WOMAN WOULD COME BACK AS A WOMAN.

Even if the word firstborn means what you think it does in the clause firstborn from the dead. these saints were resurrected after Jesus was though the graves were broken open when he died. The comma and the and separate the two events and each has the time it occurred in its fragment.

These saints are not mentioned hereafter.

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The breath returned to what?
That what has feet.

THAT WAS NOT *A RESURRECTION*,BUT A BRINGING BACK TO LIFE. THE SPIRIT OF LIFE WENT **BACK** INTO THEM.
IN THE *RESURRECTION* THE DEAD AND THE LIVING WILL
BE CHANGED INTO A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

LAZARUS WAS *NOT RESURRECTED*,BUT REVIVED.
BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.(BY JESUS).
HE DIED AGAIN. SO WILL ALL BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE, DIE AGAIN.(SECOND DEATH).

No, as Revelations 11:12 gives more information.

Revelation 11:12
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Your words tell me that you are unwilling to take these passages for what they say and so add to them in order to justify your chosen belief that “IN THE *RESURRECTION* THE DEAD AND THE LIVING WILL BE CHANGED INTO A QUICKENING SPIRIT”. Do you even know what quickening means? I ask because you speak of the spirit that gives life to these two witnesses and then turn around and speak of people turning into a spirit that gives life. The later use does not even make sense given what quickening spirit means.

October 9, 2013 at 2:20 am#359446

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 09 2013,13:09)

Wakeup,

Quote

ANGELS/CHERUBIMS/SERAPHIMS AND BEASTS WITH ONE HEAD AND 6 WINGS/BEASTS WITH 4 FACES AND 4 WINGS.
ARE ALL OF SPIRIT.

I include all of those that are intelligent and who were created in the realms as angels. Some of those you name may only be symbols as they were only seen in prophetic visions.

Quote

Matthew 27:52-53
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

THAT WAS NOT A *RESURRECTION*.
FOR JESUS WAS THE FIRST RESURRECTED.
THAT WAS THE *BRINGING BACK TO LIFE*.
THEY WENT TO THE CITY,NOT TO HEAVEN.
IN THAT CASE,A WOMAN WOULD COME BACK AS A WOMAN.

These saints are not mentioned hereafter.

Quote

The breath returned to what?
That what has feet.

THAT WAS NOT *A RESURRECTION*,BUT A BRINGING BACK TO LIFE. THE SPIRIT OF LIFE WENT **BACK** INTO THEM.
IN THE *RESURRECTION* THE DEAD AND THE LIVING WILL
BE CHANGED INTO A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

LAZARUS WAS *NOT RESURRECTED*,BUT REVIVED.
BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE.(BY JESUS).
HE DIED AGAIN. SO WILL ALL BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE, DIE AGAIN.(SECOND DEATH).

No, as Revelations 11:12 gives more information.

Revelation 11:12
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Revelation 5:14 ***And the four beasts said***,
Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of ***the four beasts saying***,
Come and see.

wakeup.

October 9, 2013 at 3:17 am#359447

Participant

Mike,

Quote

Luke 4:41
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah.

But you read it as: “The spirits OF the fleshly demons came out of many people”, right?

I am not sure if that is a paraphrase of what I would say. I would say that the demons spiritually enter people though each person's corrupt spirits. In other words the demons spiritually came out of many people. Whether demons have bodies or not is irrelevant to this point as is their location in physical space.

This point goes along with the theme that some demons are tempters and therefore control those who obey their commands. Some of the later are handed given to the demons to own.

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Why the word “transforms”? Was he not a spirit to begin with? And was he not also one of the “hosts of heaven”?

That prophet has a lying spirit in his mouth.

Is that statement paraphrased as “that prophet has a lying demon in his mouth”

Is that statement paraphrased as “that prophet is lying with his mouth” after choosing to obey the demon's words.

I see it as the second. How do you see it.

Quote

Do you believe the “hosts of heaven” in that verse were angels?

I don't know for sure but I do believe they were creatures of heaven. I find it hard to call a demon a member of the hosts of heaven but this passage clearly seems to do so.

October 9, 2013 at 3:19 am#359448