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Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 18 2012,20:02) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 18 2012,19:11) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 18 2012,06:59) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 18 2012,17:12) T, The angels that went to Abraham did not have spirit bodies as they, providing my memory is correct, both ate and were touched.
kso they were no angels then
or they materialized (took a flesh like body ) or do you believe that angels are like men look alike and flesh
T,Angels are never claimed to posses spirit bodies.
There is one case in Scripture where spirits sit around the throne of God and one volunteers to become a lying spirit in the mouths of the kings prophets.
The inference is that spirit is a demon because the righteous do not prophesy falsely.
There is also the case of the spirit God sent to King Saul; a spirit of unrighteous and unstable anger.
kyou are teaching me ,now??? but you do not answer my questions
so I am not a student ,even though I can learn new things ,
so are you going to answer my questions
kGe 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Ge 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Ge 24:7 The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.
Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Ex 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Ex 23:23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.Mt 4:11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
so teach me and so I learn from you ,those scriptures are talking about angels right
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 18 2012,23:25) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 16 2012,03:37) As for angels they passed the same tests Jesus put forth to show they were not spirits; and yet you continue to claim that both Jesus and the angels are spirits.
Kerwin,Can you show me the scripture that says, “the angel ate food, thereby proving he was made of flesh”?
Humans don't generally eat dirt, Kerwin; but I surely COULD eat dirt if I wanted to. Don't you suppose an angel COULD eat human food if he wanted to?
Mike,Those with spirit bodies can not touch anything; nor can they eat physical food.
T,
I enjoy your quoted passages on angels. This one I find interesting as we are told that the angel of the Lord appeared in a flame that came out of the midst of the brambles.
Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Mosses seemed unaware of the angel but instead wondered how the brambles could burn without being consumed and approached it, Ex 3:3. When Jehovah saw he got near the elohim (the angel?) who spoke for Jehovah and to Moses out of the midst of the bush, Ex 3:4. The one that speaks out of the midst of the brambles states he is the Elohim of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac, Ex 3:6. Jesus later infers Jehovah is that Elohim when quoting these words while speaking to the Sadducees. In addition the passage states Jehovah tells Moses that he has seen the affliction of his people in Egypt, Ex 3:7.
From what I see this angel, in whom Jehovah is fully present, dwells in the midst of a “rock thorn” that is on fire but is not consumed. He does not appear either as a flame or as the “bush” but rather is in the flame that like Jehovah’s voice is coming out of the midst of the arcadia.
I do not see how this reveals that the angel is either physical or spiritual; as either can be located in a bush.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2012,02:12) T, I enjoy your quoted passages on angels. This one I find interesting as we are told that the angel of the Lord appeared in a flame that came out of the midst of the brambles.
Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Mosses seemed unaware of the angel but instead wondered how the brambles could burn without being consumed and approached it, Ex 3:3. When Jehovah saw he got near the elohim (the angel?) who spoke for Jehovah and to Moses out of the midst of the bush, Ex 3:4. The one that speaks out of the midst of the brambles states he is the Elohim of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac, Ex 3:6. Jesus later infers Jehovah is that Elohim when quoting these words while speaking to the Sadducees. In addition the passage states Jehovah tells Moses that he has seen the affliction of his people in Egypt, Ex 3:7.
From what I see this angel, in whom Jehovah is fully present, dwells in the midst of a “rock thorn” that is on fire but is not consumed. He does not appear either as a flame or as the “bush” but rather is in the flame that like Jehovah’s voice is coming out of the midst of the arcadia.
I do not see how this reveals that the angel is either physical or spiritual; as either can be located in a bush.
KYOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT IS GIVEN TO YOU THROUGH YOUR OWN HEART
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 19 2012,18:07) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2012,02:12) T, I enjoy your quoted passages on angels. This one I find interesting as we are told that the angel of the Lord appeared in a flame that came out of the midst of the brambles.
Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Mosses seemed unaware of the angel but instead wondered how the brambles could burn without being consumed and approached it, Ex 3:3. When Jehovah saw he got near the elohim (the angel?) who spoke for Jehovah and to Moses out of the midst of the bush, Ex 3:4. The one that speaks out of the midst of the brambles states he is the Elohim of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac, Ex 3:6. Jesus later infers Jehovah is that Elohim when quoting these words while speaking to the Sadducees. In addition the passage states Jehovah tells Moses that he has seen the affliction of his people in Egypt, Ex 3:7.
From what I see this angel, in whom Jehovah is fully present, dwells in the midst of a “rock thorn” that is on fire but is not consumed. He does not appear either as a flame or as the “bush” but rather is in the flame that like Jehovah’s voice is coming out of the midst of the arcadia.
I do not see how this reveals that the angel is either physical or spiritual; as either can be located in a bush.
KYOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT IS GIVEN TO YOU THROUGH YOUR OWN HEART
T,So looking at what is written about the burning bush and the angel that appeared in the fire that comes out of its midst; you cannot see evidence to either prove that angels have either spirit bodies or not. Thus you are claiming that instead of being an understanding based on this Scripture it is an inspired understanding that this passage is molded to.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2012,18:07) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 19 2012,18:07) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2012,02:12) T, I enjoy your quoted passages on angels. This one I find interesting as we are told that the angel of the Lord appeared in a flame that came out of the midst of the brambles.
Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Mosses seemed unaware of the angel but instead wondered how the brambles could burn without being consumed and approached it, Ex 3:3. When Jehovah saw he got near the elohim (the angel?) who spoke for Jehovah and to Moses out of the midst of the bush, Ex 3:4. The one that speaks out of the midst of the brambles states he is the Elohim of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac, Ex 3:6. Jesus later infers Jehovah is that Elohim when quoting these words while speaking to the Sadducees. In addition the passage states Jehovah tells Moses that he has seen the affliction of his people in Egypt, Ex 3:7.
From what I see this angel, in whom Jehovah is fully present, dwells in the midst of a “rock thorn” that is on fire but is not consumed. He does not appear either as a flame or as the “bush” but rather is in the flame that like Jehovah’s voice is coming out of the midst of the arcadia.
I do not see how this reveals that the angel is either physical or spiritual; as either can be located in a bush.
KYOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT IS GIVEN TO YOU THROUGH YOUR OWN HEART
T,So looking at what is written about the burning bush and the angel that appeared in the fire that comes out of its midst; you cannot see evidence to either prove that angels have either spirit bodies or not. Thus you are claiming that instead of being an understanding based on this Scripture it is an inspired understanding that this passage is molded to.
KYOU DEAL WITH SCRIPTURES NOT WITH ME ,
IT SEEMS YOU DO NOT SEE MUCH ,
T,
I am addressing your “inspiration” that you mold this Scripture to and not this Scripture. The Scripture teaches us the angel appeared in the flames that come out of the midst of the bush; just as another angel later appeared in the midst of a fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego was in that fire and were not consumed; even though their bodies were the cursed flesh of humanity.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2012,16:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2012,04:29) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 16 2012,08:58) Eze 37:5……> Thus says the Lord GOD unto these “bones” ; Behold, “I” will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall Live: (6) And “I” will lay “sinews” upon you, and will bring up “flesh” upon you, and cover you with “skin” and put “breath” in you, and you shall “live”; and you shall know that “I” am the LORD.
Okay Gene,What point are you trying to argue with that scripture? It surely doesn't say anything about the dead being resurrected with flesh bodies when Jesus returns. Nor does it contradict Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 15.
Mike………Then what is these scriptures talking about then?Eze 37:11 Then he said unto me Son of Man these bones are the whole house of Israel behold they say Our Bone are dried, and our hope is lost; we are cut off from our parts.
Gene,The dried up bones in the vision God gave to Ezekiel REPRESENT the nation of Israel, who considered themselves dried up and forgotten by God.
When God says, “these bones ARE the house of Israel”, He means, “these bones REPRESENT the house of Israel”.
When He says, “you shall live”, He means that He will once again rescue them from bondage and restore His nation of Israel.
This passage is about bringing the nation of Israel out of Babylonian captivity – not about the resurrection.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 18 2012,22:14) Those with spirit bodies can not touch anything; nor can they eat physical food.
Nice claim………. but where is the proof to support your statement?How did the angel of God kill 185,000 Assyrians if he could not “touch anything”?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 18 2012,15:11) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 18 2012,06:59) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 18 2012,17:12) T, The angels that went to Abraham did not have spirit bodies as they, providing my memory is correct, both ate and were touched.
kso they were no angels then
or they materialized (took a flesh like body ) or do you believe that angels are like men look alike and flesh
T,Angels are never claimed to posses spirit bodies.
There is one case in Scripture where spirits sit around the throne of God and one volunteers to become a lying spirit in the mouths of the kings prophets.
The inference is that spirit is a demon because the righteous do not prophesy falsely.
There is also the case of the spirit God sent to King Saul; a spirit of unrighteous and unstable anger.
Scripture describes angels as ministering spirits.That said, they did appear like men when they came here. Even the Sodomites were interested in them
Seems to be a mystery. But even Jesus was transfigured while in his flesh and the Devil fought for the body of Moses for some reason.
Who know. As men can became like angels, maybe once all angels were like us and became angels. We honestly do not know too much about them because such truths are not important to us right now. No point in knowing everything now, only to lose salvation because we lack in grace, love, forgiveness, etc.
t8
yes ,true and one more thing we know is that the angels are a little higher than men ,in status and power
T8,
My doctors are ministering spirits because that is the spirit they live by. They still have the physical presence of humanity.
Angels are treated as having material bodies and wondrous powers including the ability to appear and disappear.
The only importance I see at this time is how the material/non-material presence of angels reflects on the resurrection and the gospel; and so on faith.
You are correct that we are to seek Jehovah's righteousness and kingdom first.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2012,23:33) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 18 2012,22:14) Those with spirit bodies can not touch anything; nor can they eat physical food.
Nice claim………. but where is the proof to support your statement?How did the angel of God kill 185,000 Assyrians if he could not “touch anything”?
Mike,Are you using Spiritual in the sense of immaterial?
Nope. There is no evidence know to mankind that says spirit beings aren't made of material. Just because we can't touch the thin air doesn't mean it's not made up of minute material, right?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2012,04:06) Nope. There is no evidence know to mankind that says spirit beings aren't made of material. Just because we can't touch the thin air doesn't mean it's not made up of minute material, right?
Mike,So you believe that the spiritual bodies of angels are material in nature?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 24 2012,23:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2012,04:06) Nope. There is no evidence know to mankind that says spirit beings aren't made of material. Just because we can't touch the thin air doesn't mean it's not made up of minute material, right?
Mike,So you believe that the spiritual bodies of angels are material in nature?
kERWINwhy you re questioning what you have already been answered
?bring your prove if you have any ,or what is your purpose ???good or bad ,create confusion or truth ,???
as a student you are teaching,as a teacher you play a student ,were are you really stand
no were Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2012,17:41) T8, My doctors are ministering spirits because that is the spirit they live by. They still have the physical presence of humanity.
Angels are treated as having material bodies and wondrous powers including the ability to appear and disappear.
The only importance I see at this time is how the material/non-material presence of angels reflects on the resurrection and the gospel; and so on faith.
You are correct that we are to seek Jehovah's righteousness and kingdom first.
kyour doctor is just like a car mechanic he has learn from men what is to be done in this and that case ,being a doctor in any science is a men made study,NOT A SPIRIT,
PROVE LOOK AT ALL OF THEIR MISTAKES IN OPERATING ,AND RONG PRESCRIPTIONS,OR DIAGNOSES ,
DOCTORS “MINISTERING” YOU MEAN SELVE INDULGING OF THE WHEALTH OF THE MISERY OF OTHERS ,RIGHT
SO YOU ARE TAKING THE RONG EXAMPLE AND THE RONG CONCLUTION ,WAKE UP AND BE A MAN.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2012,23:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 24 2012,04:06) Nope. There is no evidence know to mankind that says spirit beings aren't made of material. Just because we can't touch the thin air doesn't mean it's not made up of minute material, right?
Mike,So you believe that the spiritual bodies of angels are material in nature?
I don't know the answer to that, Kerwin. What I DO know is that we are never told in scripture that spirit beings can't eat human food or touch physical things.Consider the angel and Balaam. The angel was holding a sword, right? How could a spirit being hold a sword? Okay, let's say it was a “spirit sword”. How then could the “spirit sword” be a threat to the donkey if spirit things can't “touch” flesh things? That would mean the sword would have gone right through the donkey without harming it, right?
And you can't say the angel “manifested flesh” in that occasion, or else Balaam and the donkey would have been able to see him at the same time, right? (Not to mention the fact that no scripture ever says any angel “manifested flesh”. Should we add our own words and understandings into the scriptures to make them conform to our own beliefs?)
Just a thought.
If all things seen come from things unseen, and if that means that the physical universe that we can see comes from a greater realm called the unseen spiritual realm then it stands to reason that:
- a spiritual body could have a physical dimension to it;
- but the physical could not necessarily take on a spiritual form,
- a spiritual angel can take on a physical form,
- but a physical man cannot take on a spiritual form.
This is of course ignoring that we can inherit a spiritual body. But that appears to be gifted to us, rather than an existing function of our physical adam suit. Our salvation is after all a new birth and because we are born from above, we are sons of God being born from him. We will be like the angels in heaven.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 26 2012,22:42) Just a thought. If all things seen come from things unseen, and if that means that the physical universe that we can see comes from a greater realm called the unseen spiritual realm then it stands to reason that:
- a spiritual body could have a physical dimension to it;
- but the physical could not necessarily take on a spiritual form,
- a spiritual angel can take on a physical form,
- but a physical man cannot take on a spiritual form.
This is of course ignoring that we can inherit a spiritual body. But that appears to be gifted to us, rather than an existing function of our physical adam suit. Our salvation is after all a new birth and because we are born from above, we are sons of God being born from him. We will be like the angels in heaven.
T8THIS IS A GOOD THOUGHT
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