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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,12:02) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,11:14) 1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.”
Btw Wakeup, in verse 13, the medium actually says, “I see a god (elohim) coming up out of the ground.”
Mikedo gods comes out of the ground
were was the ground were that vision came out
Saul did not see anything why
so it is only the description of the women that we have right ???yes
all what has been said by her is well known history to all because Samuel told Saul while he was alive what he ad done .
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,12:02) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,11:14) 1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.”
Btw Wakeup, in verse 13, the medium actually says, “I see a god (elohim) coming up out of the ground.”
so she did not know who she saw ,right ??Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
remember that the air we breathing is the start of live into the world not in the womb,when we lose the ability to breath we die,but what remains is the flesh that will turn back into dust and the Soul that only God can destroy ,if this action is taken by God then we realy do not exist any more ,no trace of us will remain ,this is what goes back to God because this is what we received at birth
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 18 2012,14:31) That which returns to God is not the spirit as in the one that can be lived by.
What does that mean, Kerwin? Do we have TWO spirits? What scripture tells us this?Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 18 2012,14:58) Jesus teaches us of Sheol/Hades and the rich man knows torment while Lazarus knows pleasure. The rich man knows he has brothers and of Lazarus. So in the parable the dead have knowledge. How do these two Scriptures go together?
I had this discussion once with Istari. It is MY understanding that the story of Abraham and Lazarus was simply a STORY to illustrate the importance of helping those less fortunate than yourself. It follows these teachings from Jesus:Luke 6
21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.Matthew 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat………..Taken literally, the two teachings seem to contradict each other. This is how I've “solved” this contradiction in my mind. Perhaps I'm wrong?
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,14:45) does all men carry the same spirit and is that same spirit that goes back to God who gived it I believe that it is the SOUL that we receive but when it goes back ,it is filled with what we have done and so can be judge accordingly,
I too believe the soul remains “filled with what we have done”, as you put it. I just don't believe it is the SOUL that goes back to God.The way I understand it, the spirit (the electricity that runs the computer) goes back to God.
The soul (the hard drive filled with our memories of our life) goes to Sheol to await a wakening on the final day of judgment. There is no electricity (spirit) getting to the hard drive while it is in Sheol, so it is like an unplugged computer that knows nothing and can do nothing.
And our body (the outer case of the computer) simply decays.
The electricity (spirit) is a gift from God, and is neither good nor evil, but only animates us. This will not be judged, but just goes back to God when we die.
The hard drive (our soul) is where God can find out if we used the internet to find ways to give to others, or to watch porn. THIS is the part of us that will be judged.
The flesh counts for nothing, as Jesus said, and simply decays.
Pierre, our difference is that you see the thing that goes back to God as the part that is “filled with what we have done”. I don't. I see that part as the soul which goes to Sheol to await judgment at a later time.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,16:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,12:00) And where do you think those men and women get those powers, Pierre? By what power did the medium raise Samuel from his sleep? By what power did the Egyptian priests turn staffs into snakes and water into blood?
Mikethe DEMONs ,Saul was abandon by God and even ad the evil spirit give him an hard time,only when David play music did it calm down,
when God leave you ,it means you have used up all your credit,and so become fair play for the devil,and his gang
That is also how I see it, Pierre. So it wasn't really the human woman who had the power to raise Samuel, but the demons with whom she made contact.It wasn't really the Egyptian priests who turned water into blood, but the Egyptian gods (demons) that they worshipped. That is why God not only punished the Egyptians during the exodus, but their gods as well. (Exodus 12:12)
My original point remains that the soul of Samuel was fast asleep in Sheol, awaiting judgment, when that demon woke him up.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,16:26) but the SOUL that his were God send them are still in ignorance because they do not have a body ,and what is it that it knows or does it is like a hardrive in a boxe on a shelve ,waiting to be in use again.in the box or on the shelve the drive does not lose any of his info,right ??yes
That is correct, IMO. But it seems you confuse the hard drive, which is boxed on a shelf in Sheol, awaiting judgment, with the electricity that powers that hard drive (the spirit), which went back to God the minute the person died.Do you see THREE things?
1. The body – which counts for nothing and decays.
2. The soul – which is the hard drive shelved until judgment day.
3. The spirit – which is the electricity that USED TO power the hard drive before it was shelved. It went back to the God who gave it.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,16:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,12:02) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,11:14) 1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a spirit coming up out of the ground.”
Btw Wakeup, in verse 13, the medium actually says, “I see a god (elohim) coming up out of the ground.”
Mikedo gods comes out of the ground
Are you asking ME that question, Pierre? Perhaps you should be asking it to whoever wrote 1 Samuel. All I've done is quote what the scripture says.Mike
Quote Pierre, our difference is that you see the thing that goes back to God as the part that is “filled with what we have done”. I don't. I see that part as the soul which goes to Sheol to await judgment at a later time. I do not see that their is any electricity ,God can take our breath away and we are no more ,or can claim our soul and so are no more ;in a living state that is ;
just understand the purpose of men ,what is it
to become rich ? to enslave is alike ?? to subdue their alike ?? to make a name for himself ?? to invent new stuff ?? to kill others ?? OR IS IT TO RECONCIELE HIMSELVE WITH HIS CREATOR ?? AND WHAT IS THERE IN MEN THAT CAN BE SAVED IS IT NOT THE SOUL ,AND WHY WOULD GOD NEED A SPIRIT WHEN HE OLD OUR SOUL THAT HE ALONE CAN DESTROY? ,MANY ANGELS ARE AROUND US AND SEE WHAT WE DO AND WHAT WE DO NOT DO AND SHOULD ,ONE WORD TO THEM AND WE WOULD BE FINISH,
all animals have a soul even God as one ,the bad and the good all are breathing the same air ,but do not have the same input in the soul, WHAT IS GOING BACK TO GOD IS OUR SOUL ,GOD IS THE ONE THAT HAS GIVEN IT TO US ,AND SO RETURN ,ALSO NOTICE THE WORDS OF CHRIST THAT “MEN DOES NOT LIVE ONLY ON BREAD ,BUT ON EVERY WORD OF GOD ” AND THIS FOOD CAN ONLY BE STORED IN THE SOUL,IT COULD BE THAT GOD CAN SEE US THE WAY WE ARE AND SEE OUR SOUL THIS I DO NOT KNOW ,BUT ALL WILL BE JUDGED BY OUR SOUL AND GOD HOLD IT IN HIS HANDS SO TO SPEAK .
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,17:13) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 18 2012,14:58) Jesus teaches us of Sheol/Hades and the rich man knows torment while Lazarus knows pleasure. The rich man knows he has brothers and of Lazarus. So in the parable the dead have knowledge. How do these two Scriptures go together?
I had this discussion once with Istari. It is MY understanding that the story of Abraham and Lazarus was simply a STORY to illustrate the importance of helping those less fortunate than yourself. It follows these teachings from Jesus:Luke 6
21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.Matthew 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat………..Taken literally, the two teachings seem to contradict each other. This is how I've “solved” this contradiction in my mind. Perhaps I'm wrong?
no one but God can help the hungry in the world ,remember the perfume on the feet of Jesus ,and the remark for the poor that was made ,
what the picture of the bad rich man and Lazarus means to me ,is we should not let the ones we meet on a every day bases let die without mercy,
if it would be something else then I believe we would never make enough money to pay for the need of all the poor ,
this is a divided responsibility and not easy to solve ,but Christ was more to call poor the people of the kingdom rather than the poor of this world ,
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:19) no one but God can help the hungry in the world ,
Pierre, did Jesus encourage us to give to the poor and needy? YES or NO?Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:09) I do not see that their is any electricity
Well then, I don't know what to tell you anymore.Scripture teaches these things:
1. The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.
2. The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.
3. The BODY counts for nothing and decays.
Mike
Quote My original point remains that the soul of Samuel was fast asleep in Sheol, awaiting judgment, when that demon woke him up. I do not believe that it was Samuel ,but a demon impersonator ,
what is this story tells us ;TO GIVE CREDIT TO THE MEDIUMS
AND USE THEM FOR THEIR POWERS OR …………………..No, we are told specifically to stay away from those who dabble in the black arts. But that doesn't mean the black arts are fake. Consider the girl who had the spirit of prophecy in Acts 16:16-18.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,19:16) No, we are told specifically to stay away from those who dabble in the black arts. But that doesn't mean the black arts are fake. Consider the girl who had the spirit of prophecy in Acts 16:16-18.
mikeI do not say they are fakes in a sens that what they do is powerful ,the illusion is only in the way that they would make them the true god ,what is impossible,
but we as true believers have to make a choice to serve them or the true God almighty and his son Jesus Christ .and so resist the devil.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,18:21) Quote (terraria @ Aug. 18 2012,18:19) no one but God can help the hungry in the world ,
Pierre, did Jesus encourage us to give to the poor and needy? YES or NO?
yes he did ,but those who are close by and especially those in the faith ,remember we working for Jesus Christ the son of God and his father , and his work is not to give material food to all men on earth , this is something he will do in time ,we have to show to all what we are and who we are ,be a light,show what truth his and how to get it ,share it in every way,be kind,honest,truthful ,ect….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,18:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:09) I do not see that their is any electricity
Well then, I don't know what to tell you anymore.Scripture teaches these things:
1. The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.
2. The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.
3. The BODY counts for nothing and decays.
MikeEZE 32:30 “There also are the chiefs of the north, all of them, and all the Sidonians, who in spite of the terror resulting from their might, in shame went down with the slain. So they lay down uncircumcised with those slain by the sword and bore their disgrace with those who go down to the pit.
see this scripture says that the uncircomcised are lay down with those who are slain by the sword ,WOULD THIS MEAN THAT THE RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT LAY DOWN IN THAT PLACE
i BELIEVE SO, Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,18:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 18 2012,18:09) I do not see that their is any electricity
Well then, I don't know what to tell you anymore.Scripture teaches these things:
1. The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.
2. The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.
3. The BODY counts for nothing and decays.
ok Mike lets put a scripture to your 3 point okso let see your scriptures ??
1. The SPIRIT goes back to God who gave it.
2. The SOUL goes to Sheol to sleep with our fathers.
3. The BODY counts for nothing and decays.
Mike,
Here is another passage to consider. It is speaking of the son of man; but clearly the body and not the soul.
Psalm 146:4
King James Version (KJV)4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
It is my thought the breath = the soul but it is the breath that returns to God while the soul departs to descend to Sheol/Hades.
I do not see Jesus teaching us falsely about Sheol; even though he is using a parable of it to teach us other things.
Here is another passage that teaches us that departed souls tremble.
Job 26:5-6
New American Standard Bible (NASB)5 “The [a] departed spirits tremble
Under the waters and their inhabitants.
6 “Naked is Sheol before Him,
And [c] Abaddon has no covering.Footnotes:
Job 26:5 Or shades; Heb Rephaim
Job 26:6 I.e. the nether world
Job 26:6 I.e. place of destructionHere is another one:
Isaiah 14:9-10
New American Standard Bible (NASB)9 “ Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come;
It arouses for you the [a]spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth;
It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
10 “ They will all respond and say to you,
‘Even you have been made weak as we,
You have become like us.Footnotes:
Isaiah 14:9 Or shades (Heb Repha’im)
Isaiah 14:9 Lit male goats
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