The Angel of the LORD

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,17:00)

Hi Pierre, Your spirit is part of your soul and your soul is part of your body. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

did I say otherwise

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

What?  When did I state that?     And how would that fit in with your claim that the “souls” of Paul and the elect will be clothed in a heavenly tent?  Are those “souls” dead because they are no longer “encased in flesh”? As Ed has rightfully pointed out, scriptures list the soul, body, and spirit as separate things.  Jesus himself says to not fear those who can only kill the body, but not harm the soul. Apparently, souls CAN live outside of flesh bodies.

It states Adam became a living soul and therefore he was not a living soul before the breath was placed in his flesh.  In the case of Rachel we know she (her flesh) perished when she (her soul) departed.  This agrees with Ed’s words.  A naked soul is called a departed spirit in some translations.  The Hebrew often calls it a shade.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2012,10:22)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,17:00) Hi Pierre, Your spirit is part of your soul and your soul is part of your body. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj did I say otherwise

YOU are hardly the oracle of truth.

[kerwin]

Gene & Wakeup,

* It is written that Adam became a living soul not that he became a soul.

* The departure of Rachael's soul left her without the breath of life.

* Soul is translated to life in Leviticus 17:11 of the KJV and other translations.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,23:45)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2012,10:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,17:00) Hi Pierre, Your spirit is part of your soul and your soul is part of your body. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj did I say otherwise YOU are hardly the oracle of truth.

edj

Quote

YOU are hardly the oracle of truth.

why you guys do not read scriptures in stead of inventing your own ;

Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

does anyone here knows what NOSTRILS ARE

i do I use them sins birth ,and does anyone knows what breathed is try to stop it you soon find out ,how mutch your live depend on it .

SO STOP LIYING TO YOUR SELVES ,AND UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURES THE WAY THEY ARE WRITTEN ,THEY ARE TRUE,

NO NEED TO INVENT WHAT IS NOT THERE

were is the above false

to me(the spirit ) it is ,all the things you do ,think,and wishes for the wants and needs that are on your mind.

the soul ;his who you are and are deeply influenced by the spirit ,and could be from the body

the body; his our means to do ,and able us to fulfill all the things we do ,think,and wishes for the wants and needs that are on your mind.

in what is the above false

all

we are a two part being ,1) the soul (the spirit part that return to God when we die)

2) the part we need to do things ,this could be also two parts 1) spiritual body or an 2) flesh body ,both are working well and the soul can live in them and become one with them ,

but it is God choice who received what .

and were is the above false

wait for your answer ed.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 16 2012,17:45)

Gene & Wakeup, * It is written that Adam became a living soul not that he became a soul. * The departure of Rachael's soul left her without the breath of life. * Soul is translated to life in Leviticus 17:11 of the KJV and other translations.

Kerwin………When you die you “living” soul does depart becasue you Body is DEAD and you can't Have a “Life” left in you without a Body with Spirit in it.  It is completely over for us and if Go does not resurrect us and quicken us back to life we simple will never live again. You have bought into this idea we keep living when we are dead that simply is not true brother, “the dead know nothing, their thoughts Parish when they die” , there simply is no more life after death until God resurrects us.

It is absolutely crucial we attain unto the resurrection from the state of death after we die. Kerwin why would there need to even be a resurrection if that were not true>  

Gen 2:7….> And the Lord God formed “MAN” from the “DUST” OF THE GROUND, and breath into his nostrils the breath of life, and “MAN” Became a  “LIVING SOUL”

Now who Kerwin “became a “LIVING SOUL” ? MAN DID> What was MAN before that?,  a dead Soul.  Soul simply means an INDIVIDUAL something unique unto itself all SOULS are Separate And “UNIQUE” unto themselves. Every created thing is an individual Soul even animals are Souls also. Thy don't “have Souls they “ARE SOULS”> that is the same with Man also. and when they die the cease to exist as a “LIVING” Soul any longer they are a “DEAD” Soul or individual>

Gen 3: 19…..> In the sweat of you face shall you eat bread, till you return unto the ground; because out of it you were taken: for dust you are and unto “dust” you shall return.    Kerwin the YOU there is the Soul the complete “YOU”

1 Cor 15:45….> And so it is written, The First “man” Adam was made a “LIVING SOUL”: the Last Adam was made a “quickening” Spirit.    The word quickening simply means a revitalized or regenerated  by.

Kerwin a Soul, in it simplest terms to me brother simply means an individual Being , And in our case that is a  body with spirit in it. that is the complete us and that is what a souls is> IMO

peace and love to you and your Kerwin…………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2012,23:29)

It states Adam became a living soul and therefore he was not a living soul before the breath was placed in his flesh. In the case of Rachel we know she (her flesh) perished when she (her soul) departed. This agrees with Ed’s words. A naked soul is called a departed spirit in some translations. The Hebrew often calls it a shade.

Okay. And what part of this says that God breathed “the soul” into Adam?

What part of it says the SOUL cannot live without a flesh body?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2012,00:46)

we are a two part being ,1) the soul (the spirit part that return to God when we die) 2) the part we need to do things ,this could be also two parts 1) spiritual body or an 2) flesh body ,both are working well and the soul can live in them and become one with them ,

I count three, Pierre.

1. The spirit that goes back to Him who gave it upon our earthly death.

2. The soul that departs to Sheol/Hades where it is generally conscious of nothing until it will be livened again at the final judgment.

3. A flesh body.

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin,

I want to get back to your claim that the “souls” of Paul and the elect with go to heaven and be clothed with a heavenly tent, and that the “soul” of Jesus was sent down to earth.

I asked you this:

If the “souls” of Paul and the elect are living, sentient beings after the flesh is gone, why do you argue that the “soul” of Jesus WASN'T a living, sentient being BEFORE he was made in the likeness of a human being?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 17 2012,19:11)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2012,00:46) we are a two part being ,1) the soul (the spirit part that return to God when we die) 2) the part we need to do things ,this could be also two parts 1) spiritual body or an 2) flesh body ,both are working well and the soul can live in them and become one with them , I count three, Pierre. 1.  The spirit that goes back to Him who gave it upon our earthly death. 2.  The soul that departs to Sheol/Hades where it is generally conscious of nothing until it will be livened again at the final judgment. 3.  A flesh body.

Mike

I believe that the spirit and soul is one and the same ,you see this goes back to God for the final judgement ,I believe God is given us a soul at birth ,what we do with it is to us ,but he will bring all we do and say to judgement ,

this is why it says do not be afraid of those that can kill the flesh only but of the one that can destroy both the soul and the body ,see without a body the soul cannot operate so he is like sleeping ,until another body his given

[kerwin]

Mike,

I believe that the soul is the life God breathed into Adam. I also believe that the soul is made of spirit. As the soul is spirit it is sometimes called spirit instead of soul; but it is not the only spirit.

I believe that the soul returns to God but I also believe it descends to Sheol/Hades. This seems a contradiction and your understanding and your understanding of these two being separate seems to be a stronger argument.

Gene’s argument does not explain how the soul is not destroyed when man destroys the flesh.

I also know Jesus inferred Abraham and Isaac were still living even when there is dead.

[kerwin]

To all,

Does Ecclesiastes 9:5 prove the dead do not have a chance to enter heaven as it explicitly states “neither have they any more a reward”?

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2012,17:46)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,23:45) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2012,10:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,17:00) Hi Pierre, Your spirit is part of your soul and your soul is part of your body. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj did I say otherwise YOU are hardly the oracle of truth. edj Quote YOU are hardly the oracle of truth. why you guys do not read scriptures in stead of inventing your own ; Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. does anyone here knows what NOSTRILS ARE i do I use them sins birth ,and does anyone knows what breathed is  try to stop it you soon find out ,how mutch your live depend on it . SO STOP LIYING TO YOUR SELVES ,AND UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURES THE WAY THEY ARE WRITTEN ,THEY ARE TRUE, NO NEED TO INVENT WHAT IS NOT THERE were is the above false to me(the spirit ) it is ,all the things you do ,think,and wishes for the wants and needs that are on your mind. the soul ;his who you are and are deeply influenced by the spirit ,and could be from the body the body; his our means to do ,and able us to fulfill all the things we do ,think,and wishes for the wants and needs that are on your mind. in what is the above false all we are a two part being ,1) the soul (the spirit part that return to God when we die) 2) the part we need to do things ,this could be also two parts 1) spiritual body or an 2) flesh body ,both are working well and the soul can live in them and become one with them , but it is God choice who received what . and were is the above false wait for your answer ed.

Quote

why you guys do not read scriptures in stead of inventing your own ;

Hi Pierre,

Who here is inventing their own scriptures?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2012,18:25)

Mike, I believe that the soul is the life God breathed into Adam.  I also believe that the soul is made of spirit.  As the soul is spirit it is sometimes called spirit instead of soul; but it is not the only spirit.   I believe that the soul returns to God but I also believe it descends to Sheol/Hades.  This seems a contradiction and your understanding and your understanding of these two being separate seems to be a stronger argument. Gene’s argument does not explain how the soul is not destroyed when man destroys the flesh. I also know Jesus inferred Abraham and Isaac were still living even when there is dead.

Kerwin………..The Soul can corrupt in the Grave, just as it say it can.

Psa 16:10…..> for you will not leave my soul in hell (grave); neither will you suffer your Holy One to see “CORRUPTION”.

Now notice the scripture just befor that one Kerwin,

Psa 16:9…..> Therefore my heart and my glory rejoices: (now notice Kerwin ) my “flesh” also shall rest in hope. Why Kerwin ? ” for you will not leave my “soul” (or body ) in hell (grave) neither will suffer you Holy One to see “corruption”

Now Kerwin what “CORRUPTS” in the Grave? not your spirit but your Body right?. The Spirit return back to him who gave it>

Man did not become a “LIVING” SOUL until his SOUL or BODY part was “united” with Spirit and that same thing must happen again or we simply will not Exist as a “LIVING SOUL” ever again.

God can completely destory us by Leaving us in the Grave, it is absolutely crucial we obtain unto the resurrection of our Bodies and have God given Spirit added back into it> Just as Jesus did also. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 18 2012,03:06)

Quote (terraria @ Aug. 16 2012,17:46) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,23:45) Quote (terraria @ Aug. 16 2012,10:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 16 2012,17:00) Hi Pierre, Your spirit is part of your soul and your soul is part of your body. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj did I say otherwise YOU are hardly the oracle of truth. edj Quote YOU are hardly the oracle of truth. why you guys do not read scriptures in stead of inventing your own ; Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. does anyone here knows what NOSTRILS ARE i do I use them sins birth ,and does anyone knows what breathed is  try to stop it you soon find out ,how much your live depend on it . SO STOP LIYING TO YOUR SELVES ,AND UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURES THE WAY THEY ARE WRITTEN ,THEY ARE TRUE, NO NEED TO INVENT WHAT IS NOT THERE were is the above false to me(the spirit ) it is ,all the things you do ,think,and wishes for the wants and needs that are on your mind. the soul ;his who you are and are deeply influenced by the spirit ,and could be from the body the body; his our means to do ,and able us to fulfill all the things we do ,think,and wishes for the wants and needs that are on your mind. in what is the above false all we are a two part being ,1) the soul (the spirit part that return to God when we die) 2) the part we need to do things ,this could be also two parts 1) spiritual body or an 2) flesh body ,both are working well and the soul can live in them and become one with them , but it is God choice who received what . and were is the above false wait for your answer ed. Quote why you guys do not read scriptures in stead of inventing your own ; Hi Pierre, Who here is inventing their own scriptures?       God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

no scripture to show that what i quoted his wrong ,just cheap words like always

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2012,20:33)

Mike I believe that the spirit and soul is one and the same………. this is why it says do not be afraid of those that can kill the flesh only but of the one that can destroy both the soul and the body………….

So, by your own words, we can see that the soul is something that can be destroyed. And we know that the body is something that can be destroyed.

Can the spirit God gives us, which goes back to Him when we did, be destroyed? I say “NO”. And if the spirit (which is God's in the first place) cannot be destroyed, then it cannot be a soul, which CAN be destroyed.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2012,01:25)

I believe that the soul returns to God but I also believe it descends to Sheol/Hades.  This seems a contradiction and your understanding of these two being separate seems to be a stronger argument.

I agree that your and Pierre's understanding that the spirit and soul are the same seems to be a contradiction.

Consider Samuel.  When he died, his flesh suffered decay and was no more.  His soul went to Sheol.  And his spirit, if scripture cannot be broken, must have gone back to Him who gave it.

His soul was not dead or destroyed in Sheol, but only resting until it is livened again.  USUALLY, this won't happen until the final judgment; but in Samuel's case, Saul had a medium (most likely through the dark arts of a demon) awaken him while sleeping in Sheol.

So my understanding is that the souls remain unconscious in this “waiting area” called Sheol/Hades until (in most cases) God will awaken them for judgment.  (Samuel being awakened before judgment day seems to be a rare event.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2012,02:03)

To all, Does Ecclesiastes 9:5 prove the dead do not have a chance to enter heaven as it explicitly states “neither have they any more a reward”?

They have no more day to day earthly rewards.  They don't enjoy a big feast anymore, nor do they enjoy romance with their wives, or playing with their children, or visiting with friends, or the smells and sights of harvest time, etc.  They don't get to enjoy the simple pleasures of living as a human being anymore.

This is how I understand it, Kerwin.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 18 2012,14:52)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2012,01:25) I believe that the soul returns to God but I also believe it descends to Sheol/Hades.  This seems a contradiction and your understanding of these two being separate seems to be a stronger argument. I agree that your and Pierre's understanding that the spirit and soul are the same seems to be a contradiction. Consider Samuel.  When he died, his flesh suffered decay and was no more.  His soul went to Sheol.  And his spirit, if scripture cannot be broken, must have gone back to Him who gave it. His soul was not dead or destroyed in Sheol, but only resting until it is livened again.  USUALLY, this won't happen until the final judgment; but in Samuel's case, Saul had a medium (most likely through the dark arts of a demon) awaken him while sleeping in Sheol. So my understanding is that the souls remain unconscious in this “waiting area” called Sheol/Hades until (in most cases) God will awaken them for judgment.  (Samuel being awakened before judgment day seems to be a rare event.)

Mike

i have to ask a question ;what power would the black arts or
a medium,
have to waken Samuel 's soul ???a righteous man ?

“1Ch 10:13 Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD? he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance,
1Ch 10:14 and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.”

DA 12:13 “But as for you(Daniel), go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age.”

Dt 31:16 And the LORD said to Moses: “You are going to rest with your fathers,

2Sa 7:12 When your days are over and you (David)rest with your fathers,

all die and wait for the resurrection at the end of days;

Jn 11:24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

ECC 12:13 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person
ECC 12:14 For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

the Soul his our written history ,with all our knowledge ,emotions ,wills ,envies ,and deepest sentiments ,a real hardrive so to speak,

when we will be resurrected we will be exactly the way we were at our dead ,and specially at the second resurrection ,

the once in the first resurrection are those who have believe in Christ without doubts ,

JN 20:29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

[terraricca]

Mike

Quote

Can the spirit God gives us, which goes back to Him when we did, be destroyed? I say “NO”. And if the spirit (which is God's in the first place) cannot be destroyed, then it cannot be a soul, which CAN be destroyed.

sins we know the soul his not the flesh ,because God has a soul, and sins God his spirit ,would it not be true that all things that comes and go back to God are of the spirit I believe so ,and the soul of men in of God not of men ,

God gives to all men a soul but not all men give thanks for it to him,and still so believe that what is called the spirit that return to God who give it his our SOUL ,but placed in different areas according to our live,

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