The Angel of the LORD

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin,

I'm not going to argue semantics on your last post just yet, because it seems God is starting to get you to the place of truth.

What you have done is equate the beings of Paul and the other elect, (who will be without their flesh bodies in heaven), with the being of Jesus, (before he received his flesh body on earth).  And that means you are on the right track.

Now, if the “souls” of Paul and the others will still be sentient, self-functioning beings even without their flesh, earthly bodies, then why would you argue that the “soul” of Jesus WASN'T a sentient, self-functioning being BEFORE he was sent to earth to dwell in a flesh, earthly body?

Surely if God will clothe the “souls” of Paul and the others with heavenly tents after they lose their earthly ones, then the “soul” of Jesus was likewise clothed in a heavenly tent before he emptied himself to be made in the likeness of a human being, right?

Praise Jah, for our brother Kerwin seems to be walking toward the light.

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2012,02:23)

If you could understand that Satan is not a Person

Hi Gene, two questions…

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;
and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place
found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,
called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out
into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Revelation 12:7-9)

1) Is Michael a “Real Entity”?
2) What is this 'Satan' that Michael is fighting if non a “Real Entity” as well?

Also (question #3) Does this verse not imply that both Michael and Satan are both “Angels” as well?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

The answer to question #1 is …?

The answer to question #2 is …?

The answer to question #3 is …?

[mikeboll64]

Good luck, Ed.  Gene doesn't like to directly answer questions in that manner.  You'll probably just end up with yet another novel explaining how if you could only understand what a spirit is, then it would all fall into place for you.  

[Proclaimer]

[Ed J]

Hi Mike,

You mean prefab answers like:

Satan does not jump in and out of people…

The trouble is – Preexistenceers and Trinitarians don't understand what spirit is…      …spirit is…   yada yada yada.

Is that what you mean Mike?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Yep.

Gene, do you see that we're all on to you? If you want to be considered “credible” on this site, you're going to have to start dealing with our direct questions.

[Ed J]

Hi Mike,

Sometimes it is necessary to re-word a question
so we can answer it according to our understanding.
And sometimes it is necessary to answer only portions
(at a time) of a bloated and loaded (leading) questions.

Leading: as in only to the askers point of view.  (Link to thread)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2012,03:28)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2012,08:41) Mike………God the Father Spoke in the “FIRST” Person through Jesus often, or don't you believe Jesus when he said , the words i am telling you are “NOT MINE” but the Words of Him who Sent Me, (and again) “the Father “IN ME” (HE) does the Works. I know of no instance where we are CLEARLY taught that God Himself spoke first person through Jesus. And your bolded part only confirms that it was JESUS who was telling them God's words.  That is the opposite of God speaking first person through him.

Mike………Tell us what the Father was doing “IN” Jesus then> Was he just being still and not doing nothing as you assume or was he revealing his words to Jesus what he was to say and do as Jesus said He was>  Again you not only separated Jesus from our identity but you also Separate God the Father from Jesus' identity.  

This is why i told you before, the Trinitarians were more right then You Preexistences are becasue they at least Preach Gods “PRESENT (IN) Jesus.  

Face it Mike you absolutely do not believe what Jesus Himself said regarding the FATHER being in him Now do you?

The son of Man can do “NOTHING” of HIMSELF , the Father who is “IN” him, “HE” dose the Works
Again i say you simply do not know what a Spirit (IS) or how (IT) works.  

YOU accuse me of not answering you questions but why can't you answer this scripture and the many others where Jesus said the Father was truly :IN: HIM. Why is that Mike?, why do you and all your “PREEXISTENCE” followers ignore those scriptures where Jesus very “CLEARLY” said the FATHER WAS “IN” HIM? You can't even admit that, Why becasue your false teaching about Jesus being a “god” or demigod or angel or what ever,   Separates Jesus' connection with God the Father Just as your false teachings of Separation , Separates Jesus from his true Human Identity as well.

All Preexistences and Trinitarians are SEPARATIST moving Jesus' identity away from  humanity, and placing him somewhere else , so people truly can not relate with him as a fellow human “BEING”,and not only that but you  as well  separate   his human identity with God the Father and denying how God the Father was truly “IN” him and Speaking through Him to us. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2012,03:28)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2012,08:41) Mike………God the Father Spoke in the “FIRST” Person through Jesus often, or don't you believe Jesus when he said , the words i am telling you are “NOT MINE” but the Words of Him who Sent Me, (and again) “the Father “IN ME” (HE) does the Works. I know of no instance where we are CLEARLY taught that God Himself spoke first person through Jesus. And your bolded part only confirms that it was JESUS who was telling them God's words.  That is the opposite of God speaking first person through him.

Mike………How about this……the words i am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the Words of him who sent ME,  How clear can you get? , Jesus plainly said here the words he spoke were (NOT) His words. How do you dance around or “IGNORE” those words of Jesus Mike?

peace and love…………………………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 13 2012,13:36)

Hi Gene, The answer to question #1 is …? The answer to question #2 is …? The answer to question #3 is …?

EDJ………..Answer to you questions is this

1…….yes

2……. A SERPENT or DRAGON , according the scriptures you are using. I see no Angel mentioned there do you?

3……..NO , you are implying they both are ANGELS , the text is not saying any such thing>

Now answer me this was Peter a SATAN, or JUDAS< Or the Pharisees the Childern of an ANGEL , did a ANGEL have SEX with their Mothers in order for them to Be the Childern of the DEVIL? Due any ANGELS have the POWER to control the MINDS of PEOPLE?

Now please answer my question i have presented EDJ>

peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2012,09:34)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 13 2012,13:36) Hi Gene, The answer to question #1 is …? The answer to question #2 is …? The answer to question #3 is …? EDJ………..Answer to you questions is this 1…….yes 2……. A SERPENT or DRAGON , according the scriptures you are using. I see not Angel mentioned there do you? 3……..NO , you are implying they both are ANGELS , the text is not saying any such thing> Not answer me this was Peter a SATAN, or JUDAS< Or the Pharisees the Childern of an ANGEL , did a ANGEL have SEX with their Mothers in order for them to Be the Childern of the DEVIL? Doe any ANGEL have the POWER to control the MINDS of PEOPLE? Now please answer my question i have presented EDJ> peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

g

yes they were by the meaning of the name satan ,what means opposed “to God “

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2012,14:00)

Yep.   Gene, do you see that we're all on to you?  If you want to be considered “credible” on this site, you're going to have to start dealing with our direct questions.

MIke………..I could care less what you or anyone on this site think of me being Credible or not,  I have quote many many Scriptures that support my views and you just ignore them.

So you are not calling me incredible but those scriptures i directly quote. Are to you incredible or you would deal with them instead of Making  insulting remarks trying to desperately discredit me here. While all the time ignoring those scriptures i Quote.  

As far as dealing with you direct questions i have many many times and you simply ignore it and continue as if i never answered them. I have answered many many more question then you have of Mine why is that MIKE? I post scripture after scripture and you simple ignore them as if they were not even in the bible. So why should I or anyone else here consider you “CREDIBLE” Mike ?  IMO

peace and love……………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 14 2012,02:45)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2012,09:34) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 13 2012,13:36) Hi Gene, The answer to question #1 is …? The answer to question #2 is …? The answer to question #3 is …? EDJ………..Answer to you questions is this 1…….yes 2……. A SERPENT or DRAGON , according the scriptures you are using. I see not Angel mentioned there do you? 3……..NO , you are implying they both are ANGELS , the text is not saying any such thing> Not answer me this was Peter a SATAN, or JUDAS< Or the Pharisees the Childern of an ANGEL , did a ANGEL have SEX with their Mothers in order for them to Be the Childern of the DEVIL? Doe any ANGEL have the POWER to control the MINDS of PEOPLE? Now please answer my question i have presented EDJ> peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene g yes they were by the meaning of the name satan ,what means opposed “to God “

Terricca………You have that right Brother, the Word Satan does imply that, (ha-satan) Adversary and (IT) is a “Spirit” that works “IN” the childern of disobedience, not a ANGEL> You have that right Pierre. IMO

peace and Love to you and yours…………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2012,10:01)

Quote (terraria @ Aug. 14 2012,02:45) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2012,09:34) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 13 2012,13:36) Hi Gene, The answer to question #1 is …? The answer to question #2 is …? The answer to question #3 is …? EDJ………..Answer to you questions is this 1…….yes 2……. A SERPENT or DRAGON , according the scriptures you are using. I see not Angel mentioned there do you? 3……..NO , you are implying they both are ANGELS , the text is not saying any such thing> Not answer me this was Peter a SATAN, or JUDAS< Or the Pharisees the Childern of an ANGEL , did a ANGEL have SEX with their Mothers in order for them to Be the Childern of the DEVIL? Doe any ANGEL have the POWER to control the MINDS of PEOPLE? Now please answer my question i have presented EDJ> peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene g yes they were by the meaning of the name satan ,what means opposed “to God “ Terricca………You have that right Brother, the Word Satan does imply that, (ha-satan) Adversary and (IT) is a “Spirit” that works “IN” the children of disobedience, not a ANGEL> You have that right Pierre. IMO peace and Love to you and yours…………………………………gene

g

that's right ,but their was someone that started it and he was an angel in heaven ,and after he rebelled the NAME OF SATAN WAS GIVEN TO HIM,HE MUST HAVE LOST HIS ORIGINAL NAME FOR HE RECEIVE THIS ONE INSTEAD and so were added the nick names “devil,serpent,dragon,father of lies,murderer,ect

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca…………Again where does it say Satan was or is an ANGEL , who became that SATAN “Being”. Answer, NO WHERE> If so then tell us how this “ANGEL” “BEING” get into Peoples MINDS> Now if it is Spirit i know how that can get into peoples MINDS, Just as GOD the FATHER was “IN” Jesus, but you see GOD is no Angels either he is Spirit Also just as the adversarial “SPIRIT” is A type and kind of SPIRIT> IMO

peace and love………………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2012,14:53)

Terricca…………Again where does it say Satan was or is an ANGEL , who became that SATAN “Being”.  Answer,  NO WHERE> If so then tell us how this “ANGEL”  “BEING” get into Peoples MINDS>  Now if it is Spirit i know how that can get into peoples MINDS, Just as GOD the FATHER was “IN” Jesus, but you see GOD is no Angels either he is Spirit Also just as the adversarial “SPIRIT” is A type and kind of SPIRIT> IMO peace and love………………………………………..gene

gene

Quote

Again where does it say Satan was or is an ANGEL , who became that SATAN “Being”.

I tell you what,you prove to us that all the scriptures we showed you are wrong,one by one ,and specially the one in Gen ,with Eve and the serpent ,

and if you succeed I will become a believer as you believe ,

if you can not do that ,then I HAVE MADE MY CASE

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 13 2012,09:02)

Face it Mike you absolutely do not believe what Jesus Himself said regarding the FATHER being in him Now do you?

No Gene,

I don't believe that Jesus meant the Creator of the Universe, which the universe itself cannot contain, was literally and physically inside the puny flesh body of Jesus Christ at any time.

In fact, Jesus constantly spoke of our Father, who is IN HEAVEN, not in himself.

The words “the Father is in me and I in him” are metaphorical, not literal.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 13 2012,09:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2012,03:28) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2012,08:41) Mike………God the Father Spoke in the “FIRST” Person through Jesus often, or don't you believe Jesus when he said , the words i am telling you are “NOT MINE” but the Words of Him who Sent Me, (and again) “the Father “IN ME” (HE) does the Works. I know of no instance where we are CLEARLY taught that God Himself spoke first person through Jesus. And your bolded part only confirms that it was JESUS who was telling them God's words.  That is the opposite of God speaking first person through him. Mike………How about this……the words i am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the Words of him who sent ME,  How clear can you get? , Jesus plainly said here the words he spoke were (NOT) His words. How do you dance around or “IGNORE” those words of Jesus Mike? peace and love…………………………………………gene

“THE WORDS I AM TELLING YOU ARE NOT MY WORDS”

Gene, who was the one TELLING the people those words?  God?  Or Jesus?

If it was God Himself speaking directly through the mouth of Jesus, surely He would not have said the words were not His own, right?

So it was JESUS doing the speaking.  And JESUS spoke the words God taught him to speak.

Don't you see how this is the opposite of God actually speaking through Jesus?

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2012,02:34)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 13 2012,13:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2012,02:23) If you could understand that Satan is not a Person Hi Gene, two questions… “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Revelation 12:7-9) 1) Is Michael a “Real Entity”? 2) What is this 'Satan' that Michael is fighting if non a “Real Entity” as well? God bless Ed J EDJ………..Answer to you questions is this 1…….yes 2……. A SERPENT or DRAGON , according the scriptures you are using. I see no Angel mentioned there do you? peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Let's try question #2 again – as you misunderstood my question…

     I asked: who is Michael fighting  –  if non a Real Entity?
2) You say Michael is a “Real Entity” – why not Satan?        <– please answer

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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