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Hello,
I saw this tonight and thought I would like for JA to see it.Hebrews 2:5-9
Quote 2:5 For he did not put the world to come, about which we are speaking, under the control of angels. 2:6 Instead someone testified somewhere:
“What is man that you think of him or the son of man that you care for him?
2:7 You made him lower than the angels for a little while.
You crowned him with glory and honor.
2:8 You put all things under his control.”
For when he put all things under his control, he left nothing outside of his control. At present we do not yet see all things under his control, 10 2:9 but we see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by God’s grace he would experience death on behalf of everyone. 2:10 For it was fitting for him, for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 2:11 For indeed he who makes holy and those being made holy all have the same origin, and so he is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters,So, here we see that Jesus is not an angel, He may be a messenger but not an angel.
I don't have an agenda here Lightenup, but Jesus is referred to as an angel, just as John is.
Mark 1
1 The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
2 It is written in Isaiah the prophet:
“I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way”—
3 “a voice of one calling in the desert,
'Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.'So here we see that John is being referred to as an angel (ang'-el-os) which is translated as messenger. The word angelos is translated to messenger referring to John the Baptist in Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27 which are describing the same account. Luke 7:24 uses angelos (translated messengers) to refer to John the Baptist's disciples.
John is also called an angel/messenger here:
Malachi 3:1
1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.Here the word for angel/messenger in the OT is mal'ak and in addition to John being called that, so is Jesus in the above scripture. Also, Malachi is Mal`akiy which is a name based on the word for angel/messenger/mal'ak.
The NIV translates angel, angels or angel's 169 times versus messenger or messengers 6 times.
So obviously there needs to be an explanation that caters for the fact that angel/messenger is the same word and is used to describe messengers from heaven as well as messengers on earth.
Some say that angel is an office or function, and not a race. And we know that there are men, cherubs, seraphs, who are more specifically races or types of beings.
Any explanation as to what angel means needs to take this into consideration.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 04 2010,14:07) Quote (Arnold @ Aug. 04 2010,06:47) But it does not say that the Angel of the LORD is Jesus. On this one I agree with Nick. I do not see a clear Scripture that says that Jesus is an Angel. He was the firstborn and is the Son of God. Even though the Angels are also called Sons, but they did not come forth fro Jehovah God. While Jesus did. He is the literal Son of God, even though it says that He is the beginning of the creation of God in Rev. 3:14…..but in Col. 1:15 it says that He is the image of the invisible God. And also in Hebrew 1:5 God says:” To which of the Angel did I ever say:” You are my Son, Today I have begotten You?”
And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son.
verse 6 But when I again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:” Let all the angels of God worship Him:”
It is clear to me that Jesus is not an Angel. When you read on to verse 6,7, and 8 Jehovah God calls His Son God…..
Peace and Love Irene
Correct. It doesn't say that Jesus is the Angel of the LORD directly as far as I know.But who would deny the possibility that he could be the messenger of YHWH? And we know that there was a particular one called the Messenger of YHWH that forgave sins and his name was Wonderful.
Tell me who that was. If you do not know, then you have to at least acknowledge a possibility here. That is all I am doing – acknowledging the possibility.
t8 I do agree with that, however does a Messenger have to be an Angel? Is there a possibility, of course, anything can be with God, if He wills it…Jesus did come to Earth to do the will of His Father and teach us that the kingdom will come…..He died for us and went back to where He was before…Oh, yes it's us….This time however I will remember my password which I use every day at Face-Book.
Peace to YouIn fact just to prove my point further (Lightenup), the following scripture says that the thorn in the side of Paul was an angel/messenger/ang'-el-os of Satan.
2 Corinthians 12:7-9
7 To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”I am not so sure that the thorn in the side of Paul was a heavenly creature with wings, rather that it acted as a messenger of Satan as it was doing his bidding.
Quote (Brian @ Aug. 13 2010,19:18) however does a Messenger have to be an Angel?
Hi Irene. Like your new name.Messenger and Angel are the same word ang'-el-os. There is no distinction as such. It is translators who use the same word to mean 'angel' for heavenly messenger and 'messenger' for earthly messenger.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 13 2010,03:03) I don't have an agenda here Lightenup, but Jesus is referred to as an angel, just as John is. Mark 1
1 The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
2 It is written in Isaiah the prophet:
“I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way”—
3 “a voice of one calling in the desert,
'Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.'So here we see that John is being referred to as an angel (ang'-el-os) which is translated as messenger. The word angelos is translated to messenger refering to John the Baptist in Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27 which are describing the same account. Luke 7:24 uses angelos (translated messengers) to refer to John the Baptist's disciples.
John is also called an angel/messenger here:
Malachi 3:1
1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.Here the word for angel/messenger in the OT is mal'ak and in addition to John being called that, so is Jesus in the above scripture. Also, Malachi is Mal`akiy which is a name based on the word for angel/messenger/mal'ak.
The NIV translates angel, angels or angel's 169 times versus messenger or messengers 6 times.
So obviously there needs to be an explanation that caters for the fact that angel/messenger is the same word and is used to describe messengers from heaven as well as messengers on earth.
Some say that angel is an office or function, and not a race. And we know that there are men, cherubs, seraphs, who are more specifically races or types of beings.
Any explanation as to what angel means needs to take this into consideration.
Yes t8,
I am aware that angel means messenger also. Jesus was definitely a messenger and not a created angel. God created the angels through Him.Quote (t8 @ Aug. 13 2010,19:26) Quote (Brian @ Aug. 13 2010,19:18) however does a Messenger have to be an Angel?
Hi Irene. Like your new name.Messenger and Angel are the same word ang'-el-os. There is no distinction as such. It is translators who use the same word to mean 'angel' for heavenly messenger and 'messenger' for earthly messenger.
Oh, well I couldn't Log-In under Arnold no matter what I did. I tried and I tried, and gotten 8 process #, but never got the Password which I had forgotten. So I just registered. And the new password is the same that I use on a daily basis for Face-Book. Wouldn't forget that….I don't like to be old, the memory goes….Brian is our youngest Grandson's name. I could not think of anyone else….As far as the Angel of the LORD is concerned, to me whatever Jeus was, He now is immortal and that is what counts now….
Thank you IreneQuote (Brian @ Aug. 14 2010,02:33) Oh, well I couldn't Log-In under Arnold no matter what I did. I tried and I tried, and gotten 8 process #, but never got the Password which I had forgotten. So I just registered. And the new password is the same that I use on a daily basis for Face-Book. Wouldn't forget that….I don't like to be old, the memory goes….Brian is our youngest Grandson's name. I could not think of anyone else….As far as the Angel of the LORD is concerned, to me whatever Jeus was, He now is immortal and that is what counts now….
The email was sent. In fact 2 were sent as you made 2 requests. But you might have changed your email address and hence, the passwords are being sent to the old one.It is a good idea to update your profile with your latest email address for this reason.
Anyway, nothing wrong with Brian.
Reminds me of “The Life of Brian”.
I bring this thread up because it seems like some may want to discuss related topics.
I find T8's first post's interesting.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 28 2006,19:49) Quote (Mercy @ Sep. 28 2006,03:33) I see overwhelming evidence that Jesus existed prior to his incarnation. I see a some strong evidence that he was the angel of the Lord.
Hi Mercy, I agree with you….on both counts…Blessings
This means that Is believes that God is an angel because he believes that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Angel of YHWH.Obviously he cannot believe both, so he has to change at least one of his beliefs.
Exodus 14:19
And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face and stood behind them.In the New Testament we read this account:
1 Thessalonians 4:13
For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.Is this proof or strong evidence that Jesus is the Angel of the LORD?
I am interested in unbiased and well thought out responses only.
T8…………Paul was not say that “rock” was Jesus the man or any Angel , he was saying that Rock was the (ANOINTING) Spirit of GOD , It was In Moses and other leaders of Israel and was also in Angels too, it all was the SAME SPIRIT ANOINTING of GOD doing that.
peace and love……………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2012,07:36) T8…………Paul was not say that “rock” was Jesus the man or any Angel , he was saying that Rock was the (ANOINTING) Spirit of GOD , It was In Moses and other leaders of Israel and was also in Angels too, it all was the SAME SPIRIT ANOINTING of GOD doing that. peace and love……………………………………………….gene
geneyou do not give any understanding to those verses
and Nick is looks approved your confusion pack of words
this i can not understand ???why??
Hi T8
1 Thessalonians 4:13
For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.”This is 1Cor 10 1-4 not 1 Thess 4
Cross references include ex 17.6
num 20 7-11 ex 13 21-24What you offer could not be called STRONG evidence.
Hi t8,
The angel of the Lord is mentioned in the first verse but not the second.
There is no suggestion that the rock they drank from was an angel.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,11:59) Hi T,
The foundation STONE is Jesus CHRIST.
1Cor3
Nickyou right ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusationIS THIS SCRIPTURES DOES NOT SAY THAT CHRIST HIS THAT STONE ? IN OTHER WORDS BUT MEANS THE SAME THING DOES IT ?
Pierre
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