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Jesus is in Heaven now and at the right-hand of God that you say he is. Further, read Revelation. A glorified Jesus states that his God is the Father just as he stated when he walked the Earth as a man.
Revelation 1:1 (English-NIV)
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Revelation 3:12 (English-NIV)
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God.
Never again will he leave it.
I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
Further, the New Testament was written while Jesus was in Heaven, so your excuse doesn’t wash.
Paul writes this while Jesus is at the right-hand of the Father.
Ephesians 1:17 (English-NIV)
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.…so you rely on the words of Jesus…AND the words of catholic encyclopedias – quoting your pet verse (like Arius did) to deny what the rest of Scripture says..
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If eternal life is in the FATHER (the only true God), then why are we to be baptized in the name of JESUS..??? – the truth is that the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ – to be baptized in Christ IS to be baptized in the Father, Son and Spirit..
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Let Scripture interpret Scripture – “We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” – 1 John 5:19,20DavidL, take off your bias glasses and you will see that the one who is true (God) has a son. So if the one who is true if Jesus, then please explain to me more about Jesus son. You see what you want to see. But I have pointed out the truth about this verse.
to know the SON *IS TO KNOW THE FATHER*…’I and the Father are ONE’ Jesus said, and ‘If you really know Me, you will know My Father as well’..John says, ‘whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.’ …’The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.’ 1 John 1:2…’the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God’
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Those who accept the Trinity are acknowledging the Divinity of Christ through His unique relationship with the Father according to the testimony of Scripture (and NOT the dictates of Rome), declaring, ‘my Lord AND My God’ because they see, as Thomas did, the very image of the Eternal GOD in the SON.
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..but because of conflict in your carnal understanding concerning this reality, you now deny the revelation of Scripture, choosing instead to strive and dispute over words to no profit.. even to the ruin of those who hear your arguments… and while you still try and give Jesus some form of divinity – you can now only ascribe Him something SEPARATE to the Father, saying, (to your own confusion) ‘the Word was god.’This article is very well written and stated the points from the bible very well. What most Trinitarian believers dont understand is that the concept of “Trinity” is never once mentioned or preached upon in the bible from Genesis to Old testament. If someone does not believe in the Trinity, it does not mean that that person does not exalt God. I read the bible thoroughly and I do not rely on my pastors or whatever to teach me because I’ve come to realize that some pastors out there will sometimes teach things that are no where to be found in the bible. In my church I was surprised when some of the elders were praying to Jesus? Jesus never once said to pray to him!!?!?. When the disciples asked Jesus how to pray..did Jesus not pray to the Heavenly Father(YHWH)? Yet these people who believe in the Trinity have it in mind to not follow what Jesus taught. When Jesus was resurrected he said “I am going to my Father and your Father, My God and Your God”. What more proof do you people need that shows Jesus is not the Father nor is he equal to the Father. Jesus received dominion and Power. The father does not receives dominion and power because The Father HIMSELF is dominion and power, he does not need anybody to give it to him. There is only ONE GOD(The Father) and One Lord Jesus Christ. Even 1st Corinthians 15-27 fully states “For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ”. That passage fully states that God put everything under Christ to rule over except for God himself. How then can Trinitarians say that Jesus is equal to the Father? Trinity is a false doctrine that tries to change the word of Christ. I wish more Christians would read the bible for themselves and actually understand the difference between what God has written in his words and what is being preached in churches!
If God has put everything under Christ’s feet…doesn’t that put Christ in equal position to God..?? If you are seated at the right hand of All Authority…what Authority does that give you..??
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Jesus said, I and the Father are ONE..!!!
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Paul said, In Christ DWELLS the fullness of the Godhead bodily..!!!
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John said, The Word was God..!!!
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Really the underlying issue is not so much the Trinity but how we understand Scripture…
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Satan’s whole system of religious deception goes beyond Babylon, it was instituted in the garden of Eden when he tempted Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge..
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Now… thinking we are wise, man substitutes the Scriptures with his own carnal theology and logic-based interpretations..thus the institution of Christianity is as corrupted (and divided) as the Pharisees..
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But Christ builds His true Body on the REVELATION of His Word which gives Life – Spiritual Life… When our eyes are opened we no longer rely on the deceitful teachings of man to instruct us in the doctrinal correctness (or incorrectness) of the Trinity.. because, Like Thomas, we suddenly SEE who Jesus is..!!!DavidL, you have missed the obvious. If God puts everything under Christ’s feet, then who is God? Jesus? No. God put everything under Jesus feet, thus God is the Father right. And this is what I have been saying all along and it is this that you say is false doctrine, yet even this scripture you quote says it too.
You can try to make this and that teach the Trinity, but I only need to point out basic things like this to blow this assumption out of the water. God made Jesus Lord over his creation.
You could argue that the Pharaoh made Joseph lord over his kingdom, thus Joseph is the Pharaoh, whereas I would make the same basic argument that Joseph is not the Pharaoh, rather Pharaoh made Joseph lord.
Just to double check this is correct, you only need see in scripture that Jesus does not do anything that the Father is not doing or doesn’t say anything that the Father does not say. Likewise Joseph as a lord over Egypt did not do that which was contrary to Pharaoh’s will or against him. The idea is that the Pharaoh trusted him because of his wisdom to exercise authority on his behalf. This is the same with Jesus. God trusts him and God knows that Jesus will always do his will.Of course the Father is God…but by relying on your own carnal understanding you deny the true Deity of Jesus Christ, thus, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, you now teach something that is at odds with Scripture… and must change the wording of John 1:1 to fit with your logic.
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
Jesus said the Father is the ONLY true God. You are free to disagree of course.As far as John 1:1’s usage of theos, have you not read where Jesus said: “‘Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are theos’.
If he called them theos, to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,”…..”Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son'”?
Notice that Jesus called it blasphemy to say that he is God. He defended this accusation by reminding them of the usage of theos as being a/the son.
From here was he quoting: Psalms 82:6,
“I said, `You are theos/elohim; you are all sons of the Most High.”
When you understand this, you understand how theos is used in scripture. And it is not always YHWH being referenced. This is why we have the title MOST HIGH Theos. Why have that, if theos always meant YHWH?
If you even pondered this for a few minutes you could see it is true and scripture is testimony to this. But I suspect you are more comfortable being blind on this and following the masses, and will continue to call Jesus YHWH and the Most High God, which is blasphemy.Your reasoning is all twisted because you are trying to grasp things with your MIND – that can only be understood with your HEART..!!!
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And so according to your interpretation of John 1:1 (and the Greek word theos), Jesus becomes a second god…?!
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Is that really what the Bible teaches concerning Jesus Christ -definitely not..!! Again you prove yourself guilty of the very thing you condemn others of – picking individual verses out to support your own ideas.Concerning John 17:3 – The Father IS the only true God but NOT to the exclusion of the Son…!!! You try and separate the two when Jesus is here expressly joining Himself with the Father…!!!
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“this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom He has sent”…
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Eternal Life is in Jesus Christ… but you take the LETTER of the Word, and miss the REALITY (just to try and prove your teaching) – the EXACT same blunder of the Pharisees..!!!You said: “Concerning John 17:3 – The Father IS the only true God but NOT to the exclusion of the Son…!!!”
That is just another way of saying Jesus was wrong. Jesus said that the Father was the only true God and you say he is not because Jesus is also the only true God.
You are deceiving yourself if you think otherwise. Serious stuff DavidL. But funny too when I hear all the excuses under the sun. Your quote above takes the cake though because it is a clear example of an oxymoron.You say my reasoning is all twisted because I am trying to grasp things with my MIND – that can only be understood with my HEART..!!!
I believe with all my heart that Jesus was correct when he said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
Rather it is you who does not believe Jesus words with all your heart. And why? Because your mind gets in the way. Your mind is soaked in the Trinity and it gets in the way.
Listen to your heart and hear Jesus words. If you cannot hear him, then you by no means belong to him. It is not I that says this, but scripture.Again you assume that everyone else is like you, with a mind soaked in doctrine…clinging to your logic like it’s gold – when really it has become your tomb stone.
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It was the words of Christ that saved my life 25 yrs ago…but when you use them to justify your teaching you make them dead and worthless.
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Cults are good at quoting Scripture – but what do you prove..?
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You make an argument against the revealed truth, that God is Triune.. tying to justify it with John 17:3 (like the heretic Arius in AD 325)
saying that Jesus is not the one true God…
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SO – according to you, John must have got it wrong when he said “The Word was God” – he must have meant that Jesus was a another separate god dwelling WITH the one true God and in the exact same LIKENESS of the one true God – EXCEPT Scripture says there is NONE beside Him…NONE like Him…???
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so WHO has got himself into an awful mess…!!!
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You think you escaped Babylon but really you’re still there – still eating from the tree of knowledge..believing the lie that you will become wise.. when our wisdom is Christ ALONE. (Revelation not Theology…God not man).The Father IS the only true God – but NOT to the exclusion of the Son…
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…not another way of saying Jesus was wrong – but another way of saying “I and the Father are One.”No David. It means he was one with God as we are also encouraged to be.
John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.The logical conclusion from your view is that we must also be God if your definition of oneness is accepted.
It was the words of Christ that saved my life 25 yrs ago…but when you use them to justify your teaching you make them dead and worthless.
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Cults are good at quoting Scripture – but what do you prove..?I am glad that his words saved you. But do not let the word be powerless in your life henceforth. Let it renew your mind daily. Be a disciple, not the standard for truth.
Jesus said that the only true God was the Father and knowing him and his son is eternal life. You cannot argue against it. It is too simple to use trickery and change its meaning. Just accept it or reject it. So far you have rejected it. What that means to you I cannot say. Up to God what he does with us.
You once accepted the truth in order to be saved. Why did you stop there?
Good Morning, I don’t really know what time it is there since I’m in Kuwait. I came across your website by searching the net to understand why do Christians believe in the trinity when the prophet eissa preached to pray to Allah (God). Now before you get me wrong I respect everyone’s religion and have friends pretty much from all religions, but I do enjoy a spiritual chat to understand people. The main thing Islam preaches is that God is One. All I’m asking is read it not about it and decide yourself. Some people just never. Get the message.
Let go of your logic, it REALLY IS the root of your deception – Jesus is ONE with the Father…”Before Abraham was – I AM.”
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..if we are born from above and CONTINUE in Spirit and in Truth, we are as a BRANCH grafted into Christ the Vine…BUT WE ARE NOT THE VINE – truly your logic is a curse…!!!
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John 17:5 “Now, glorify Me, My Father, in union with Yourself, in that glory which I had in union with You before the universe was.”
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Christ is ONE with God in what the Bible terms as “The Godhead”…and what believers know as “The Trinity.”
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You once knew this (as all born again believers do at the beginning) – but now your natural mind has led you up the garden path…into a world of uninspired doctrine and Pharisaical theology – you are eating from the Tree of Knowledge and it has totally beguiled you.
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Come back to the Tree of Life – rely on the Spirit for understanding.
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Our God is a Triune God…!!! True – it is a paradox, but that is EXACTLY why the carnal mind cannot comprehend it – it is a REVELATION… knowledge imparted directly into our hearts from the Spirit of God..(we cannot understand it any other way)…and this is where you have stumbled.
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