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Pierre,
Col 1:15 says 'firstborn' not 'first-created' which I have pointed out to you a bizillion times already. There is a greek word for 'first-created' but it isn't used there. You should not believe something that is not there.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2013,09:30) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,17:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,16:26) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:22) Keith,
you said:Quote I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power.
I never said that you profess that, I was just clarifying it so you would realize that I am also not saying the Holy Spirit is a non-personal force or power either; which seemed to be implied by you in your previous post as the only other option if someone doesn't see the Holy Spirit as a distinct person from the Father and the Son.
Well if he is not a distinct person then the words of Jesus saying the Father and himself will send the Spirit makes no sense IMO because they did not send themselves did they?WJ
They did not send their physical presence, they sent their omnipresence. They abide in heaven but by their Spirit-their omnipresence, they abide within us.
Then what physical presence was David speaking of when he said where his spirit was so was God?
This simply means the Spirit is God! If Gods Omnipresence can be every where and see all things and know all things and the Father and Jesus must dwell in heaven then that means the Spirit would be greater than the Father and Jesus.
The Father and Jesus are God and can be everywhere at the same time. Matt 18:20, John 14:23
So their Omnipresence can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be God?
So their Omnipresence hears from Jesus and takes from him and gives to us? John 16:13, 14
So their Omnipresence Glorifies the Son?
God dwells in me by his Spirit because the Spirit is God.
Blessings!
Keith
Hi Keith,
you said:Quote Then what physical presence was David speaking of when he said where his spirit was so was God? Can you show me the reference so I can look at the context before I answer you?
The Spirit is God. My spirit after it leaves my body when I die, is me but it is NOT a distinct person from the person in the casket…it is the person who is absent from their body in the casket. The uniqueness about the Spirit of God is that it doesn't leave the presence of the Father or Son in heaven in order to be sent from them.
Quote The Father and Jesus are God and can be everywhere at the same time. Matt 18:20, John 14:23 Yes, I agree but it is by their omnipresent Spirit that this is possible.
Quote So their Omnipresence can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be God? Their Omnipresent Spirit can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be a distinct person. Their Omnipresent Spirit is one part of their personal 'tripartness' which is Their way of remaining in one place yet extending everywhere beyond that one place as directed by another part of Their 'tripartness' (their mind).
Man's spirit is one part of his 'tripartness' also and certainly not another distinct person from the man it is a part of.
Their Spirit is a part of the Father and a part of the Son, not a distinct person from the Father or the Son, from what I can tell of what the Bible teaches.
Quote So their Omnipresence hears from Jesus and takes from him and gives to us? John 16:13, 14 Their Omnipresent Spirit hears (searches) Jesus' and or the Father's thoughts and transmits it to us.
Quote So their Omnipresence Glorifies the Son? The Father's Omnipresent Spirit glorifies the Son, the Son's Omnipresent Spirit glorifies the Father. The two spirits are united but remain distinct.
Quote God dwells in me by his Spirit because the Spirit is God. Yes the Spirit is God. Our spirit is us. Not a separate person with us.
Blessings to you too!
kathyQuote Yes the Spirit is God. Our spirit is us. Not a separate person with us. the spirit is of God ,and our spirit is of us but not God and not us ,
see it this way ;when I was not a servant of God then God's spirit was not in me right yes, how then, did he came part of me was it not by learning his will in the scriptures and changing my ways TO BECOME A SERVANT OF IS
YES SO WHAT PART DID CHANGE IN ME AFTER MY STUDIES OF GOD'S WILL
IT WAS THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIS WORDS AND WILL ,THAT I PUT IN MY MIND AND HEART AND NOW FULFILL NOT MY WILL BUT HIS WILL AND SO GOD IS USING ME TO FULFILL HIS WILL THROUGH ME ;NOW I CAN SAY THAT I HAVE GOD
'S SPIRIT IN MEQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 07 2013,22:30) Their Omnipresent Spirit can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be a distinct person. Their Omnipresent Spirit is one part of their personal 'tripartness' which is Their way of remaining in one place yet extending everywhere beyond that one place as directed by another part of Their 'tripartness' (their mind).
Hi KathiI won't touch on every point for lack of time. But I will say first that the scriptures nowhere say there is more than “One Spirit”.
From what I can tell from your writings, you believe there are three in the Godhead, 2 of them are God and are persons but the other is omnipresent and is not a person but is also God.
Is that correct?
Keith
Hi Ed J and Mike, this is in reply to your posts pAGES ago.
Paul tells us that only one and the same spirit is in believers.
The Holy Spirit is that spirit and the Christ (spirit of Christ) is that spirit.
It is one and the same eternal spirit.That is not my opinion, but scripture. They are not two separate spirits because there is only one.
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 11 2013,06:18) Hi Ed J and Mike, this is in reply to your posts pAGES ago. Paul tells us that only one and the same spirit is in believers.
The Holy Spirit is that spirit and the Christ (spirit of Christ) is that spirit.
It is one and the same eternal spirit.That is not my opinion, but scripture. They are not two separate spirits because there is only one.
2beethe spirit of God only teaches one truth and that as been written it is called the scriptures ,and it was written under the guidance of the holy spirit of God ,so it does not matter the time that passes it will remain true forever ,the will of God is what we have to learn so we can do what Christ did subdue ourself to him ;just like James says ;
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.Quote (2besee @ Aug. 11 2013,09:24) Terarricca,
What does your post have to do with what I posted?
I can't see a connection.
2beeOnly one spirit ,that is what scriptures are saying and that is what I explained
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 11 2013,11:18) Hi Ed J and Mike, this is in reply to your posts pAGES ago. Paul tells us that only one and the same spirit is in believers.
The Holy Spirit is that spirit and the Christ (spirit of Christ) is that spirit.
It is one and the same eternal spirit.That is not my opinion, but scripture. They are not two separate spirits because there is only one.
Hi 2Besee,The is only “ONE” spirit that is GOD, and that is the “Holy Spirit”.
And Jesus Christ is the “son” of the ONE Spirit that is GOD.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Aug. 11 2013,12:24) Teraricca, yes. And that spirit is the Holy Spirit, Spirit of Christ.
2beeNo,that spirit is not the holy spirit ,the holy spirit comes from the father ,and as been used by him to do the works of communication and protection ,and accomplishing God,s will,
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 10 2013,18:18) Paul tells us that only one and the same spirit is in believers.
Paul also tells us that believers have only one Lord, Jesus Christ.Do you suppose Paul meant to exclude our Heavenly Father as “Lord” over us?
Teraricca, and Mike, and Ed J,
How BLIND are you to what the scriptures say?
There is only ONE SPIRIT that was sent, yes? It is the Holy Spirit, yes? Of course it was. There is only ONE SPIRIT who was sent to dwell in any true believer, that is, God's chosen ones, the sons and daughters of God.
The Holy Spirit.Jesus was speaking to his disciples, and he told then that he would ask the FATHER and that the FATHER would send the COMFORTER to be with them, until the end of the world.
Are you denying that the Holy Spirit is here today?Jesus told them that the spirit dwells WITH THEM and will be IN THEM. Then Jesus continues on to say that HE would not leave them COMFORTLESS, and that HE would come to then.
Jesus was man in the flesh, the Lion from the tribe of Judah who overcome due to his sinlessness. Jesus also was the Holy Spirit, eternal, the very spirit of God.
You have to deny a lot of scriptures to try to say that
A) The spirit is not a person.
Or
B) There is more than one spirit working in true believers and the spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are two DIFFERENT spirits.But you are free to choose what you want.
Here is three from the author of Hebrews:
“How much more will the blood of Christ (Jesus the Christ), who through the eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit, also called the spirit of Christ) offered himself without blemish to God (Yahweh), cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”Do you see that? That is three.
Two on earth, and God in heaven.Matthew 12.
” Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is to come.“
Son of man, and Holy Spirit.
That is two, on earth.1 Corinthians.
“9 But as it is written, “Things which an eye didn't see, and an ear didn't hear, which didn't enter into the heart of man, these God has prepared for those who love him.”
10 But to us, God revealed them through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God's Spirit.
12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.”
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 11 2013,15:57) Teraricca, and Mike, and Ed J, How BLIND are you to what the scriptures say?
There is only ONE SPIRIT that was sent, yes?
No.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 09 2013,10:35) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 07 2013,22:30) Their Omnipresent Spirit can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be a distinct person. Their Omnipresent Spirit is one part of their personal 'tripartness' which is Their way of remaining in one place yet extending everywhere beyond that one place as directed by another part of Their 'tripartness' (their mind).
Hi KathiI won't touch on every point for lack of time. But I will say first that the scriptures nowhere say there is more than “One Spirit”.
From what I can tell from your writings, you believe there are three in the Godhead, 2 of them are God and are persons but the other is omnipresent and is not a person but is also God.
Is that correct?
Keith
Hi Keith,
you said:Quote I won't touch on every point for lack of time. But I will say first that the scriptures nowhere say there is more than “One Spirit”. I see in scripture the mention of the Spirit of the Son here:
Gal 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”And I also see in scripture the mention of the Spirit of the Father here:
Matt 10:20
For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.I know that the scripture speaks of there being one Spirit and it comes from the Father through the Son and I also know that the scripture speaks of each of them having a Spirit, therefore I believe the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of the Son are united but also distinct.
Quote From what I can tell from your writings, you believe there are three in the Godhead, 2 of them are God and are persons but the other is omnipresent and is not a person but is also God. Two of them are both the only deity within the Jehovah Godhead and are persons (the Father and the Son) and the Spirit is their personal Spirit within them and sent in a united or distinct way to wherever it is directed by them to cause them to be omnipresent without them actually being present. The Spirit remains within them while, at the same time, it can proceed from them.
That is my understanding.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 07 2013,22:51) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2013,09:30) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,17:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,16:26) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:22) Keith,
you said:Quote I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power.
I never said that you profess that, I was just clarifying it so you would realize that I am also not saying the Holy Spirit is a non-personal force or power either; which seemed to be implied by you in your previous post as the only other option if someone doesn't see the Holy Spirit as a distinct person from the Father and the Son.
Well if he is not a distinct person then the words of Jesus saying the Father and himself will send the Spirit makes no sense IMO because they did not send themselves did they?WJ
They did not send their physical presence, they sent their omnipresence. They abide in heaven but by their Spirit-their omnipresence, they abide within us.Then what physical presence was David speaking of when he said where his spirit was so was God?
This simply means the Spirit is God! If Gods Omnipresence can be every where and see all things and know all things and the Father and Jesus must dwell in heaven then that means the Spirit would be greater than the Father and Jesus.
The Father and Jesus are God and can be everywhere at the same time. Matt 18:20, John 14:23
So their Omnipresence can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be God?
So their Omnipresence hears from Jesus and takes from him and gives to us? John 16:13, 14
So their Omnipresence Glorifies the Son?
God dwells in me by his Spirit because the Spirit is God.
Blessings!
Keith
Hi Keith,
you said:Quote Then what physical presence was David speaking of when he said where his spirit was so was God? Can you show me the reference so I can look at the context before I answer you?
The Spirit is God. My spirit after it leaves my body when I die, is me but it is NOT a distinct person from the person in the casket…it is the person who is absent from their body in the casket. The uniqueness about the Spirit of God is that it doesn't leave the presence of the Father or Son in heaven in order to be sent from them.
Quote The Father and Jesus are God and can be everywhere at the same time. Matt 18:20, John 14:23 Yes, I agree but it is by their omnipresent Spirit that this is possible.
Quote So their Omnipresence can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be God? Their Omnipresent Spirit can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be a distinct person. Their Omnipresent Spirit is one part of their personal 'tripartness' which is Their way of remaining in one place yet extending everywhere beyond that one place as directed by another part of Their 'tripartness' (their mind).
Man's spirit is one part of his 'tripartness' also and certainly not another distinct person from the man it is a part of.
Their Spirit is a part of the Father and a part of the Son, not a distinct person from the Father or the Son, from what I can tell of what the Bible teaches.
Quote So their Omnipresence hears from Jesus and takes from him and gives to us? John 16:13, 14 Their Omnipresent Spirit hears (searches) Jesus' and or the Father's thoughts and transmits it to us.
Quote So their Omnipresence Glorifies the Son? The Father's Omnipresent Spirit glorifies the Son, the Son's Omnipresent Spirit glorifies the Father. The two spirits are united but remain distinct.
Quote God dwells in me by his Spirit because the Spirit is God. Yes the Spirit is God. Our spirit is us. Not a separate person with us.
Blessings to you too!
kathyQuote Yes the Spirit is God. Our spirit is us. Not a separate person with us. the spirit is of God ,and our spirit is of us but not God and not us ,
see it this way ;when I was not a servant of God then God's spirit was not in me right yes, how then, did he came part of me was it not by learning his will in the scriptures and changing my ways TO BECOME A SERVANT OF IS
YES SO WHAT PART DID CHANGE IN ME AFTER MY STUDIES OF GOD'S WILL
IT WAS
THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIS WORDS AND WILL ,THAT I PUT IN MY MIND AND HEART AND NOW FULFILL NOT MY WILL BUT HIS WILL AND SO GOD IS USING ME TO FULFILL HIS WILL THROUGH ME ;NOW I CAN SAY THAT I HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT IN ME
Pierre,
We don't “learn” the Spirit into us. The Spirit is sent when we respond to the call of God and accept Jesus as Lord of all even when we do not understand much of anything. When God's Spirit is within us, it renews our mind and spirit but does not become our mind and spirit.2bee
Quote Teraricca, and Mike, and Ed J, How BLIND are you to what the scriptures say?
There is only ONE SPIRIT that was sent, yes?
you really need to read the bible from one cover to the other, and more than once ,i am sure then you would know what now you do not ,
it is like you as a student in grade 2or 3 and chalange the knowledge of your teacher ,who as a 20 year lead on you ,do you not think you are pushing it
kathy
Quote Pierre,
We don't “learn” the Spirit into us. The Spirit is sent when we respond to the call of God and accept Jesus as Lord of all even when we do not understand much of anything. When God's Spirit is within us, it renews our mind and spirit but does not become our mind and spirit.I say :
Quote the spirit is of God ,and our spirit is of us but not God and not us ,
see it this way ;when I was not a servant of God then God's spirit was not in me right yes, how then, did he came part of me was it not by learning his will in the scriptures and changing my ways TO BECOME A SERVANT OF IS
YES SO WHAT PART DID CHANGE IN ME AFTER MY STUDIES OF GOD'S WILL
IT WAS THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIS WORDS AND WILL ,THAT I PUT IN MY MIND AND HEART AND NOW FULFILL NOT MY WILL BUT HIS WILL AND SO GOD IS USING ME TO FULFILL HIS WILL THROUGH ME ;NOW I CAN SAY THAT I HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT IN ME you seem not to understand what I try to convey; here it is in a different way;
if we do not know God and his son; we cannot /and do not do what God wants us to do ,we may be with good intention and do by nature what we fell is good ,but this is not the full knowledgeable will of God ,right ? yes;;but now we learn the scriptures who are the words of God for us ,and so learn the WHY'S ,AND WHEN'S AND WHO'S ,HOW'S ,AND WHERE'S ABOUT GOD AND HIS SON ,WILL,AND COMMANDS TO GAIN EVERLASTING LIFE; so this is truth ,and so we have to in heal that truth so that by that truth we can built new truth and wen their will be enough truth God spirit will com and bring us up to date for our time, but this can not happen onless the principals of truth are in place ,
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2013,12:52) 2bee Quote Teraricca, and Mike, and Ed J, How BLIND are you to what the scriptures say?
There is only ONE SPIRIT that was sent, yes?
you really need to read the bible from one cover to the other, and more than once ,i am sure then you would know what now you do not ,
it is like you as a student in grade 2or 3 and chalange the knowledge of your teacher ,who as a 20 year lead on you ,do you not think you are pushing it
“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hid these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them to babes”!Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 11 2013,19:05) kathy Quote Pierre,
We don't “learn” the Spirit into us. The Spirit is sent when we respond to the call of God and accept Jesus as Lord of all even when we do not understand much of anything. When God's Spirit is within us, it renews our mind and spirit but does not become our mind and spirit.I say :
Quote the spirit is of God ,and our spirit is of us but not God and not us ,
see it this way ;when I was not a servant of God then God's spirit was not in me right yes, how then, did he came part of me was it not by learning his will in the scriptures and changing my ways TO BECOME A SERVANT OF IS
YES SO WHAT PART DID CHANGE IN ME AFTER MY STUDIES OF GOD'S WILL
IT WAS THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIS WORDS AND WILL ,THAT I PUT IN MY MIND AND HEART AND NOW FULFILL NOT MY WILL BUT HIS WILL AND SO GOD IS USING ME TO FULFILL HIS WILL THROUGH ME ;NOW I CAN SAY THAT I HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT IN ME you seem not to understand what I try to convey; here it is in a different way;
if we do not know God and his son; we cannot /and do not do what God wants us to do ,we may be with good intention and do by nature what we fell is good ,but this is not the full knowledgeable will of God ,right ? yes;;but now we learn the scriptures who are the words of God for us ,and so learn the WHY'S ,AND WHEN'S AND WHO'S ,HOW'S ,AND WHERE'S ABOUT GOD AND HIS SON ,WILL,AND COMMANDS TO GAIN EVERLASTING LIFE; so this is truth ,and so we have to in heal that truth so that by that truth we can built new truth and wen their will be enough truth God spirit will com and bring us up to date for our time, but this can not happen onless the principals of truth are in place ,
Pierre,
Do you think that you have to do a certain amount of God's will in order to gain eternal life?I don't believe that we have to earn our salvation but it is a free gift of God which we receive when we put our trust in our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
After that, we grow in wisdom and knowledge about God but that is maturing in our faith…we already have salvation from the moment we put our trust in Jesus.
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