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Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2013,09:18)
Your (Ed J's) quote is below:Quote No it you who doesn't understand, In John 6:70 Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil'
nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(1) Edited James Version (EDJV interpretation):
Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(2) Authorised King James Version (AKJV):
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?Obviously both your interpretation and the AKJV cannot be correct.
My question: Which is correct?
1) Your interpretation of John 6:70;
2) The AKJV translation of this verse.I have FULLY explained to you “why” my statement (labeled #1) was indeed correct (see inner quote box). Next is a quote form you
where you have promised that you would remove the tile when I have given you a good answer (which I have already done).Quote (t8 @ Mar. 12 2014,12:03)
I am only interested in a good answer. It doesn't have to stick to exact rulings.
It just needs to be a fair answer that clears up misconceptions.
I would appreciate you answer in the best way you can.Since I have cleared up the misconception,
please be a man of your word and remove the tile.I draw attention to YOUR quote:
An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken or ceases to be honest.
Your brother
in Christ,
Ed JQuote (Ed J @ April 08 2014,14:25) Post transfer: Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2013,09:18)
Your (Ed J's) quote is below:Quote No it you who doesn't understand, In John 6:70 Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil'
nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(1) Edited James Version (EDJV interpretation):
Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(2) Authorised King James Version (AKJV):
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?Obviously both your interpretation and the AKJV cannot be correct.
My question: Which is correct?
1) Your interpretation of John 6:70;
2) The AKJV translation of this verse.I have FULLY explained to you “why” my statement (labeled #1) was indeed correct (see inner quote box). Next is a quote form you
where you have promised that you would remove the tile when I have given you a good answer (which I have already done).Quote (t8 @ Mar. 12 2014,12:03)
I am only interested in a good answer. It doesn't have to stick to exact rulings.
It just needs to be a fair answer that clears up misconceptions.
I would appreciate you answer in the best way you can.Since I have cleared up the misconception,
please be a man of your word and remove the tile.I draw attention to YOUR quote:
An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken or ceases to be honest.
Your brother
in Christ,
Ed J
edjwhy does a simple question need explanation
is not to deviate the answer
change course to the question
or show the ego of the one that has to answered it
Quote (david @ April 06 2014,18:21) Mike. Pssst. Over here. Ok. Me whispering. Just remove his tile. Don't tell t8. We will keep it on the down low. T8 seems to have not posted for a couple weeks. He won't notice. I find this tile discussion boring. And slightly sad. There are much more interesting things floating around in eds mind than tiles. We must let those things out. Ok. This conversation never happened. Wink wink. nudge nudge.
david, you might be Ed J's hero at the moment, but this site is for quality discussion where people are asked to answer questions relating to what they teach. We are taught that we should always have an answer to that which we believe and of course all the more to that which we teach. Otherwise we will end up with people just teaching stuff and no one being challenged to support what they teach. Thus useless dialog.If Ed J cannot be totally honest with the answer regarding that which he regularly has taught, then my advice is that there are plenty of forums he can join that do not require this level of accountability.
It is really simple, if you teach on Heaven Net, then you are also accountable. The site has always had a focus to encourage others to be honest about what they teach. If that makes me bad or whatever in the eyes of some people, then guess what, I honestly care not.
Quote (Ed J @ April 08 2014,20:25) Since I have cleared up the misconception,
please be a man of your word and remove the tile.
No Ed J, the misconception remains.Here is my understanding so far from your answers.
1) The AKJV is perfect.
2) The AKJV made a mistake when it translated “one of you is A devil”.Come on Ed J, if you cannot see the elephant in the room, then my advice is to join a forum where people or the site owners don't care what you say because they are getting advertising revenue or whatever.
Mike said it for you. You can sign that declaration or give us something else that explains this contradiction for us. Until then, I will continue to believe that the devil is in your details.
Hi T8,
You seem to now be accusing me of being less than honest.
In my endeavor to rectify this, I will explain a little more clearly in this post,
and will also recap where we are so far – for you and anyone else who is following this thread.I have started *this thread* to expose how you are retro-engineering rules
(alternate of choice questions MUST now according to you be answered as well)
in addition to the existing rule of answering “YES” – “NO” – “I DON'T KNOW” questions.This thread illustrates that you are a hypocrite, because you have not answered my question yet have demanded I answer yours.
My alternate of choice question (listed below) illustrates perfectly the intent of your original question mirrored back at you.1. You are wrong for saying that I must be wrong.
2. You are wrong for trying to pit me against God's written word.You have said that my question WAS NOT RELEVANT, but everyone
here (except maybe you) can clearly see that it's actually spot-on.“And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things
(as refusing to answer an alternate of choice question), and doest the same
(refusing to answer a mirrored alternate of choice question), that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?” (Romans 2:3)Hi Mike, it's funny that you should say this…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2014,11:14) And it seems like that is exactly what has happened. You have answered “YES” to #1, and “NO” to #2. Is that correct?
…because it's now apparent that T8's answer to my alternate of choice question is *NUMBER 1*
because he has agreed with me that the Greek has no indefinite articles.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 23 2014,21:02) I agree with the article argument you make. God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgNow according to this question posed in the other thread – if my answer was “Number 1” is correct –
I would NOT have been given a tile – is this not indeed what YOU are claiming in the other thread? (<– please answer)
“Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.” (1 Tim. 1:7)Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2013,09:18) Your (Ed J's) quote is below: Quote No it you who doesn't understand, In John 6:70 Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil'
nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(1) Edited James Version (EDJV interpretation):
Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(2) Authorised King James Version (AKJV):
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?Obviously both your interpretation and the AKJV cannot be correct.
My question: Which is correct?1) Your interpretation of John 6:70;
2) The AKJV translation of this verse.
You have said: time and time again:
'let your yes be yes and your no be no' but what we have seen out of you instead is
YOUR “YES” HAS TURNED TO “NO”, because I have answered #1 is correct in this thread – yet you haven't removed the tile.<!–QuoteBegin–heaven+Sep. 02 2013,14:59
–>Quote (heaven @ Sep. 02 2013,14:59
)Ed J, for non-compliance with the Hot Seat rules, you have been given a tile.
This can be removed
by answering the question.…next you *MADE A PROMISE* to remove the tile if I explained 'the contradiction' that you were seeing between
what I stated about John 6:70 and what the AKJV Bible states in John 6:70; WHICH I HAVE ALSO ALREADY DONE.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2014,14:55) It is simple, if you give me a truthful answer as to this apparent contradiction, then yes I will remove the tile. And finally, you say that you have asked nothing extra to what the original question was…
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 26 2014,08:36) I am not asking anything extra to what the original question was.
Is this a joke? …because I ain't laughing.In a PM to me you stated that 'bullying' is not permitted in your forum, but I guess you are exempt
form that rule (being a hypocrite) you continue to attempt to bully me with the tile punishment stick.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi T8,
Quote (heaven @ Sep. 02 2013,14:59) Ed J, for non-compliance with the Hot Seat rules, you have been given a tile.
(1)This can be removed by answering the question.
If you choose not to answer the question, the tile stays, but
(2)you cannot be tiled again for the same question.1) So once again I ask you to be a man of your word and please remove the tile BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
2) If not, your words also give me permission to go ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT THIS without fear of repercussion of incurring a new tile.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI hope I have made myself clear now.
You ask me to be reasonable, but so far you have been anything but reasonable.
So once again I ask you to be a man of your word and please remove the tile.Once you have fulfilled your promise to remove the tile – we can go back to a loving relationship in Christ.
I'm looking forward to having many brotherly Christian conversations with you and answering any question you may have.BUT I WILL NOT BE BULLIED………………………..Ed J
Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2014,00:16) (1) Edited James Version (EDJV interpretation):
Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(2) Authorised King James Version (AKJV):
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?Obviously both your interpretation and the AKJV cannot be correct.
My question: Which is correct?1) Your interpretation of John 6:70;
2) The AKJV translation of this verse.[/quote]
Eddy,I have seen you repost t8's original question a number of times – and usually really big!
I have yet to see where you answered it. Is YOUR interpretation of John 6:70 correct?
OR……….
Is the KJV interpretation of John 6:70 correct?
It cannot be both, since your interpretation is at odds with the KJV translation. So which is the correct interpretation? Yours? Or the KJV's?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2014,12:04) Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2014,00:16) (1) Edited James Version (EDJV interpretation):
Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'(2) Authorised King James Version (AKJV):
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?Obviously both your interpretation and the AKJV cannot be correct.
My question: Which is correct?1) Your interpretation of John 6:70;
2) The AKJV translation of this verse.
Eddy,I have seen you repost t8's original question a number of times – and usually really big!
I have yet to see where you answered it. Is YOUR interpretation of John 6:70 correct?
OR……….
Is the KJV interpretation of John 6:70 correct?
It cannot be both, since your interpretation is at odds with the KJV translation. So which is the correct interpretation? Yours? Or the KJV's?
Hi Mike, here is a re-post of my answer where I explain *WHY* what I said (labeled #1) is a true statement.Regarding #1.
A. Neither the Greek, nor the Hebrew has “indefinite articles”
So Jesus could not have said ‘one of you is A devil’
B. And likewise none of the 12 Greek definite articles were used,
So Jesus equally could not have said ‘one of you is THE devil’
C. Therefore: “Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'”
is a true statement, even though you may yet consider it wrong.Regarding #2.
A. Should the indefinite article “a” have been italicized, YOU bet!
B. Would I say the editors were ‘wrong’ for NOT italicizing it?
Wrong is not the word I would use, neglectful perhaps.
Can you really call someone wrong for overlooking something?Now please suggest (as a Moderator) that T8 honer his word and remove the tile.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Mike,
Concerning John 6:70, here's T8's promise to remove the tile:
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 12 2014,12:03)
I am only interested in a good answer. It doesn't have to stick to exact rulings.
It just needs to be a fair answer that clears up misconceptions.
I would appreciate you answer in the best way you can.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2014,14:55)
Just give me a truthful answer to wrap it up. I am a reasonable man. I will remove the tile if you are honest and clear it up.
So far T8 has been unreasonable.I have a friend named Mike (this story is not a reference to you) who tells me he doesn't lie.
I have pointed out to him a number of times where he has indeed lied. The point of the story is:
Mike doesn't get to decide whether or not he lies, that decision belongs to those who listen to him.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIn our system of Justice we are judged in a court of law by a Jury of our
peers who examine all the evidence concerning the case in dispute.
Judge, jury, and executioner's are for comics, cartoons & movies.T8's should go back to being the “Gas-Mask” warrior
YES T8, I suggest you change your Avatar back.Your brother
in Christ,
Ed JQuote (Ed J @ April 19 2014,02:29)
Regarding #1.
A. Neither the Greek, nor the Hebrew has “indefinite articles”
So Jesus could not have said ‘one of you is A devil’
B. And likewise none of the 12 Greek definite articles were used,
So Jesus equally could not have said ‘one of you is THE devil’
C. Therefore: “Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'”
is a true statement, even though you may yet consider it wrong.Regarding #2.
A. Should the indefinite article “a” have been italicized, YOU bet!
B. Would I say the editors were ‘wrong’ for NOT italicizing it?
Wrong is not the word I would use, neglectful perhaps.
Can you really call someone wrong for overlooking something?
Hi Mike,We are off topic here but, since it relates to my answer, I feel it should be included.
The “AKJV Bible” is noted for its strict adherence to the original text.
For the English reader that includes ITALICIZING all added words.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPlease Ed J. A simple answer. I haven't got time to wade through an excess amount of text to look for the answer that is probably not there.
Just explain the contradiction please. Be honest. Let your yes be yes so to speak.
Is the AKJV wrong or you? I am sure that even you can see that there is a contradiction between the AKJV translation and your view (about 'a devil') not agreeing with the translation.
Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2014,09:29) Regarding #1. Neither the Greek, nor the Hebrew has “indefinite articles”
So Jesus could not have said ‘one of you is A devil’
Will you make the same argument throughout the scriptures – since neither Greek nor Hebrew use an indefinite article – and therefore that article is added into the English versions of the Bible thousands of times?For example:
John 8:44 King James Version
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.There are three non-italicized indefinite articles in the above KJV verse. Will you tell us that Jesus couldn't have possibly said the devil was “a murderer” and “a liar” – since the Greek language didn't have an indefinite article?
Will you call the KJV translators “neglectful” concerning this verse also – since the “a” clearly wasn't there in the Greek language, and they failed to italicize that “a” when they included it three times in the above verse?
And if I wanted to get technical, like you're doing with John 6:70, I could claim that Jesus never even said the words “liar” or “murderer” in the above verse – since those are English words, and Jesus didn't speak English on earth.
So let's lose the words “Jesus said“, and change it to “Jesus taught“. Because what he taught will transcend the language barriers between Greek, Hebrew, and English.
And that way, the question isn't a matter of whether or not Jesus could have possibly SAID the words “a devil” in John 6:70 – but whether or not Jesus was TEACHING that one of the disciples was “a devil”.
The KJV scholars seem to think that Jesus was teaching that Judas was “a devil”.
Were the KJV scholars right? Or were they wrong?
Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2014,09:29) Regarding #2. A. Should the indefinite article “a” have been italicized, YOU bet!
B. Would I say the editors were ‘wrong’ for NOT italicizing it?
Wrong is not the word I would use, neglectful perhaps.
Can you really call someone wrong for overlooking something?Now please suggest (as a Moderator) that T8 honer his word and remove the tile.
Ed,If the KJV was “neglectful”, as you say, then the KJV is not “perfect”. If they “neglected” to translate certain parts of the scriptures correctly, in your eyes, then their translation has FLAWS.
And if they clearly teach that Judas was “a devil” – and you insist that Judas wasn't “a devil” – then either you or they are WRONG.
So what you're doing is “protecting” the KJV by playing word games with t8. In your mind, you believe their translation of John 6:70 is WRONG – but you don't want to say the word “wrong”. You are trying to sugar-coat what you perceive as a flaw in 6:70, by calling them “neglectful” instead of “wrong”.
But in the interest of peace – I hereby officially appeal to t8 to remove your tile – since I suspect that coming right out and saying the KJV was “WRONG” would cause a part of your soul to die inside of you.
t8, Ed would probably rather die than say the words, “The KJV translated John 6:70 wrong“. Would you consider accepting his acknowledgment that the KJV translated John 6:70 “neglectfully” as an adequate answer to the question you asked him?
Quote (t8 @ April 19 2014,23:24)
Please Ed J. A simple answer.
I haven't got time to wade through an excess amount of text
to look for the answer that is probably not there.
Hi T8,Words like these suggest that you don't even read the posts that addressed to YOU.
Quote (t8 @ April 19 2014,23:24) Quote (Ed J @ April 19 2014,02:29)
Regarding #1.
A. Neither the Greek, nor the Hebrew has “indefinite articles”
So Jesus could not have said ‘one of you is A devil’
B. And likewise none of the 12 Greek definite articles were used,
So Jesus equally could not have said ‘one of you is THE devil’
C. Therefore: “Jesus was NOT calling Judas 'the devil' nor was Jesus even calling Judas 'a devil'”
is a true statement, even though you may yet consider it wrong.Regarding #2.
A. Should the indefinite article “a” have been italicized, YOU bet!
B. Would I say the editors were ‘wrong’ for NOT italicizing it?
Wrong is not the word I would use, neglectful perhaps.
Can you really call someone wrong for overlooking something?
Please Ed J. A simple answer. I haven't got time to wade through an excess amount of text to look for the answer that is probably not there.Just explain the contradiction please. Be honest. Let your yes be yes so to speak.
Is the AKJV wrong or you? I am sure that even you can see that there is a contradiction between the AKJV translation and your view (about 'a devil') not agreeing with the translation.
Hi T8,My explanation was given in the post immediately preceding this post of yours.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 20 2014,03:49) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2014,09:29) Regarding #2. A. Should the indefinite article “a” have been italicized, YOU bet!
B. Would I say the editors were ‘wrong’ for NOT italicizing it?
Wrong is not the word I would use, neglectful perhaps.
Can you really call someone wrong for overlooking something?Now please suggest (as a Moderator) that T8 honer his word and remove the tile.
I hereby officially appeal to t8 to remove your tile
Thank you Mike!
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