Proclaimer Mikeboll64 vs JB2U

[terraricca]

Marty

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I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother.

did God created the process to procreate

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 30 2013,09:48)

Marty Quote I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother. did God created the process to procreate

Yes, Pierre, please read what I have stated before responding to my posts.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 29 2013,09:27)

Mike……….God alone started all creation of every kind in existence, He made it able to reproduce it self and fill the complete earth.

How Gene? What EXACT ACTIONS did God take to make this happen?

Tell me God's STEP BY STEP ACTIONS.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2013,11:45)

I do not put any confidence in what Tertullian may or may not have stated.

Are you allowed to put confidence in LOGIC and TRUTH, Marty?  It doesn't really matter WHO said those words, because the LOGIC and TRUTH of them is UNDENIABLE by ANYONE.

(That's why you prefer to divert the point to who Tertullian was, and what he stood for – instead of addressing the LOGIC and TRUTH of the words I quoted.)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2013,11:45)

…..He did not create me……. ……no He did not create me……..

Hmmm………

So then you disagree with the scriptures that say God created EVERYTHING in heaven and on earth and in the sea?

And you disagree with this scripture as well………

Malachi 2:10
Do we not all have one Father ? Did not one God create us?

How about these……….

Isaiah 43
1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Isaiah 57:16
I will not accuse them forever, nor will I always be angry, for then they would faint away because of me— the very people I have created.

Psalm 89:47
Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?

The Hebrew of that last one actually says:  “For what emptiness do you create all the sons of mankind?”  

Besides Marty, you can't be a “creature” unless you were “created”.  So who exactly “created” you?  And how many different vessels did that one create you THROUGH? And are the ones THROUGH WHOM you were created actually the CREATOR who created you?

See? You can't possibly deny the LOGIC and TRUTH of those words from Tertullian. You will TRY TO, so that you can keep imagining a contradiction between “God alone created” and “God created THROUGH Jesus”. But you'll never actually be able to deny it for real.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 30 2013,10:48)

Marty Quote I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother. did God created the process to procreate

So he is not part of creation then?

What is he then?

[Proclaimer]

I have some questions for those that do not believe that Jesus was literally the firstborn of all creation.

1. Who was the first to be with God?
2. What type of being would the first to be with God be?
3. What nature would the first being possess if there was no other thing or nature in existence, but God's own nature?
4. Since the Word was with God, could it be feasible that the first to be with God was the Word and then later the Word became flesh? Yes/No
5. Would this first to be with God be special among all others that are of God? Yes/No
6. What is the name of the first to be with God. We say Jesus who was originally the Word that was with God and when he came in the flesh he was called something like Yeshua. What do you say? Bob, Gabriel, Michael, Cornelius, or who.
7. Could this first to be with God be special, be called the firstborn of all creation, image of God, the beginning of the creation of God, existing in the form of God, the only one to declare God, and the only one to see him, since he was the first? Yes/No

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:12)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 30 2013,09:48) Marty Quote I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother. did God created the process to procreate Yes, Pierre, please read what I have stated before responding to my posts.   Love in Christ, Marty

MARTY

do you understand what you are really saying

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 01 2014,12:48)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:12) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 30 2013,09:48) Marty Quote I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother. did God created the process to procreate Yes, Pierre, please read what I have stated before responding to my posts.   Love in Christ, Marty MARTY do you understand what you are really saying

Yes, I understand what I am saying, but apparently you do and others on this website do not. But that is your and their problem.

I said that I was one of God's creatures, and so yes, I am part of God's creation, but I was not created in the same way that He created Adam. HE was the first human being created and Eve was created from one of his ribs. And all of humanity from then were born of that creation from the seed of Adam from a woman.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Tell me that you don't understand this

[942767]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 01 2014,08:56)

I have some questions for those that do not believe that Jesus was literally the firstborn of all creation. Who was the first to be with God? What type of being would the first to be with God be? What nature would the first being possess if there was no other thing or nature in existence, but God's own nature? Since the Word was with God, could it be feasible that the first to be with God was the Word and then later the Word became flesh? Yes/No Would this first to be with God be special among all others that are of God? Yes/No What is the name of the first to be with God. We say Jesus who was originally the Word that was with God and when he came in the flesh he was called something like Yeshua. What do you say? Bob, Gabriel, Michael, Cornelius, or who. Could this first to be with God be special, be called the firstborn of all creation, image of God, the beginning of the creation of God, existing in the form of God, the only one to declare God, and the only one to see him, since he was the first? Yes/No

Hi t8:

He was the firstborn of God of all creation, and that takes care of this discussion.

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Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:15 is in the context of our redemption into the kingdom of God by the blood of his Son.  And the following scripture states that he is “the express image of God's person, and Col 1:15 states “whom is the image of the invisible God:

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Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

And this statement here:

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Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father

And so, from these scriptures the conclusion is that when Colossians stated  “he is the express image of the invisible God”, the firstborn of every creature, it is referring to Jesus the man.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 01 2014,08:55)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 30 2013,10:48) Marty Quote I am born of Adam's seed, but no He did not create me, He formed me in the womb from the sperm of Adam in the womb of my mother. did God created the process to procreate So he is not part of creation then? What is he then?

Hi t8:

I did not say I was not part of God's creation. Please read what I have stated before making you wise cracks.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2013,13:49)

Hi Marty, Yes, Tertullian IS the one who coined the phrase “trinity”.  But that doesn't change the logic of his words that I quoted. Marty, did God,  ALONE and BY HIMSELF, create you?

Mike:

The question is whether Jesus was with him in some pre-existent state, and God said he was alone when he created the heaven and the earth, and the host thereof.

I was not there, and you were not either, and neither was Jesus he said that he did it alone.  He did not say that someone was there.

I was born from the seed of the creation, and so, I am one of God creatures, a man born of the sperm of Adam through my mom and dad, and so, yes, God alone created me, but that is not the issue.  I was not there when he created the first man or woman, and neither was Jesus.  He is also a man. God said he was alone, and accomplished the creation by Himself, as is stated in Genesis, the book beginnings.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2013,13:49) Hi Marty, Yes, Tertullian IS the one who coined the phrase “trinity”.  But that doesn't change the logic of his words that I quoted. Marty, did God,  ALONE and BY HIMSELF, create you? Mike: The question is whether Jesus was with him in some pre-existent state, and God said he was alone when he created the heaven and the earth, and the host thereof. I was not there, and you were not either, and neither was Jesus he said that he did it alone.  He did not say that someone was there. I was born from the seed of the creation, and so, I am one of God creatures, a man born of the sperm of Adam through my mom and dad, and so, yes, God alone created me, but that is not the issue.  I was not there when he created the first man or woman, and neither was Jesus.  He is also a man.  God said he was alone, and accomplished the creation by Himself, as is stated in Genesis, the book beginnings. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

And the *Word WAS WITH GOD*
Someone with God.
HERE IS THAT SOMEONE(the Word). Coming back,with revenge,and to collect what is his (saints).

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and ***his name is called The Word of God***.

wakeup.

[942767]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,06:50)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2013,13:49) Hi Marty, Yes, Tertullian IS the one who coined the phrase “trinity”.  But that doesn't change the logic of his words that I quoted. Marty, did God,  ALONE and BY HIMSELF, create you? Mike: The question is whether Jesus was with him in some pre-existent state, and God said he was alone when he created the heaven and the earth, and the host thereof. I was not there, and you were not either, and neither was Jesus he said that he did it alone.  He did not say that someone was there. I was born from the seed of the creation, and so, I am one of God creatures, a man born of the sperm of Adam through my mom and dad, and so, yes, God alone created me, but that is not the issue.  I was not there when he created the first man or woman, and neither was Jesus.  He is also a man.  God said he was alone, and accomplished the creation by Himself, as is stated in Genesis, the book beginnings. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. And the *Word WAS WITH GOD* Someone with God. HERE IS THAT SOMEONE(the Word). Coming back,with revenge,and to collect what is his (saints). Revelation 19:13   And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and ***his name is called The Word of God***. wakeup.

Yes, that is the scripture. The Word was with God, but it does not say Jesus was with God or that the Word is a person.

He said that He created every thing by Himself.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2014,11:41)

I was born………. through my mom and dad, and so, yes, God alone created me, but that is not the issue.

That is EXACTLY the issue, Marty.  So you agree that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created YOU, right?  

And you agree that, even though God did this act ALONE and BY HIMSELF, He did it THROUGH your mom and your dad, right?

And you agree that, even though God created you THROUGH your mom and dad, nobody in their right mind would ever claim that your mom and dad WERE God, right?

And you therefore agree that he who creates is ONE, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing was created is ANOTHER, right?

And you also agree that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, is able to create someone THROUGH another vessel, right?

And you therefore have no choice but to agree that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, could have created all things THROUGH Jesus…….. WITHOUT Jesus actually being God, or even being our “co-creator”, right?

And so finally, you must agree that there is NO contradiction between the phrase, “God created ALONE and BY HIMSELF”, and the phrase, “God created all things THROUGH Jesus Christ”, right?

My work here is done.  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2014,18:16)

The Word was with God, but it does not say Jesus was with God or that the Word is a person. He said that He created every thing by Himself.

Marty,

You do well to acknowledge that the Word was WITH God.

Now tell me, was God truly “ALONE”, if something called “the Word” was WITH Him?

Don't the words, “x was WITH y” prohibit either x OR y from truly being alone?

Or must we also throw this common sense out the window along with so many other sensible things……… just to accept YOUR doctrine?

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2014,11:43)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2014,11:41) I was born………. through my mom and dad, and so, yes, God alone created me, but that is not the issue. That is EXACTLY the issue, Marty.  So you agree that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created YOU, right?   And you agree that, even though God did this act ALONE and BY HIMSELF, He did it THROUGH your mom and your dad, right? And you agree that, even though God created you THROUGH your mom and dad, nobody in their right mind would ever claim that your mom and dad WERE God, right? And you therefore agree that he who creates is ONE, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing was created is ANOTHER, right? And you also agree that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, is able to create someone THROUGH another vessel, right? And you therefore have no choice but to agree that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, could have created all things THROUGH Jesus…….. WITHOUT Jesus actually being God, or even being our “co-creator”, right? And so finally, you must agree that there is NO contradiction between the phrase, “God created ALONE and BY HIMSELF”, and the phrase, “God created all things THROUGH Jesus Christ”, right? My work here is done.

Mike:

What I said is that I was not created by God as Adam was created. I was born of the sperm of Adam.

And yes, God can do anything that he desires, but He said that He created Adam and Eve by Himself not through anyone else. Jesus is a man. He was not there.

The scripture states that God created all things by(dia in Greek) Jesus, and it means that Jesus is “the ground reason for all that he created.

And he could be enjoying the dinosaurs from his position at the right hand of God as the scientists dig them up and try to determine when they existed as live beasts on the earth. He could be saying “wow, look at what my Father created for me to enjoy” .

You can do all of the reasoning that you want. He said He alone, by Himself created all things in the beginning. I do His Spirit moving upon the face of the deep, but His Spirit is not another person, but “His Spirit”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Mike:

This is what the scriptures state:

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Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made

Does it state that he created these things through another vessel?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,07:14)

Hi Mike: This is what the scriptures state: Quote Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made Does it state that he created these things through another vessel? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

GE 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
GE 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “ Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth

unless you have been made in a different way you still came the same old fashion way that God establish in Eden,and created by him ,

SO NOW YOU CAN ANSWER MIKE'S QUESTION

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2014,11:48)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2014,18:16) The Word was with God, but it does not say Jesus was with God or that the Word is a person. He said that He created every thing by Himself. Marty, You do well to acknowledge that the Word was WITH God.   Now tell me, was God truly “ALONE”, if something called “the Word” was WITH Him? Don't the words, “x was WITH y” prohibit either x OR y from truly being alone?   Or must we also throw this common sense out the window along with so many other sensible things……… just to accept YOUR doctrine?

Hi Mike:

It does prohibit Him from saying that He was alone in the creation if in fact the Word is a person, but the scripture does not say that, and this further confirmation that the Word cannot have been a literal person, if God said he was alone, and that he created the initial creation by Himself.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2014,15:16)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,07:14) Hi Mike: This is what the scriptures state: Quote Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made Does it state that he created these things through another vessel? Love in Christ, Marty Marty GE 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. GE 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “ Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth unless  you have been made in a different way you still came the same old fashion way that God establish in Eden,and created by him , SO NOW YOU CAN ANSWER MIKE'S QUESTION

Well, let me see, God created Adam from the dust of the ground, and then he blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul, and then he caused Adam to be in a deep sleep, and took one of his ribs from his side and formed his wife, Eve.

My mother and dad had relations, and by the sperm of my dad and the egg of my mother in her womb, I was conceived and formed in her womb, and born into this world, do you see the difference?

Love in Christ,
Marty

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