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Yes childish. We are debating the meat of the Word and you give me sour milk to drink. Please keep it scriptural and not play silly games. Making playground comments like that is embarrassing. We are allowed to post citations and sources that support a point. No one in their right mind believes that you support everything they are doing or believe. I stand by the comment, you are out of your depth in this subject. Hence why you think your comment is some kind of proof of the Trinity. It would be like me quoting John Calvin and then you saying that I support his persecution and murders. However if this is all you can throw at me, then you have lost this debate. I quote scripture.
“For us there is one God the Father.” I don’t need to resort to anything else.Yes, I can well understand your embarrassment.. from your perspective you’ve made a bit of a blunder posting this video – because ‘Knowing your Enemy’ is really highlighting the fallacy of your anti-trinity doctrine..(and the deceitful ways in which you try to make your teaching seem plausible).
…as for your other video, well – Who is Sure Word of prophecy Ministries…???
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All I can say is this teaching is a re-hashed JW teaching..(I think the illustrations give it away), I also checked their other videos and they all line up with Jehovah Witnesses doctrine… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah’s_Witnesses
Quote: “reject Trinitarianism, inherent immortality of the soul, and hellfire, which they consider to be unscriptural doctrines…”
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This should set alarm bells ringing, it just shows how deceptively false doctrine creeps in under the guise of ‘true-Biblical-teaching’…
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“Take heed that NO MAN deceive you..” – JESUSDavidL, you are wrong about that. There is no embarrassment nor ignorance. I knew about his personal belief months ago because myself and MikeB contacted this guy about this a few months back and had some dialog with him. So you are clearly wrong about this assumption, so either you were listening to a different spirit or your reasoning is in error here. You should really question what else you may be wrong about too.
Unlike yourself as it appears, I am not biased toward or away of any group. I can quote from anyone if they make a valid point, and certainly this video has many great points about the Mystery Religion. For me truth is truth, no matter who utters it and I am not scared to quote from those who may differ with me regarding other beliefs.
It also stands to reason that all the Christian cults out there have truth and deceptions. If it was all 100% deceptions, then how would they have any adherents and if it was all 100% correct, then the mystery of God would be complete and we would be further along in God’s plan than we are now.
The biggest cult of all is the RCC. You adhere to the mother of all cults in principal as you agree 100% with their core doctrine. The Pope is making efforts to bring all you guys back onboard 100%. At the moment you are all one in the Trinity, but not with other doctrines. Watch for the Pope and others to follow, to relax certain points of their faith to include you guys. Of course they will never relax on the Trinity as it is what the Catholic Church is. Whether you yourself return to the home of your doctrine is up to you, but if you do not, they at least have you onside in their most important doctrine. They have your soul on that one, which is their foundation and yours too. In this regard, the Pope is more your shepherd regarding your core belief than Jesus is.
“Inside her were the souls of men.”
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”. You have rejected Jesus regarding this eternal truth and have accepted the Pope instead. This is really important because this is about eternal life. It is the foundation.A Sermon on the Holy Trinity by Martin Luther (1522):
http://www.trinitylutheranms.org/MartinLuther/MLSermons/John3_1_15.htmlLet Scripture interpret Scripture – “We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” – 1 John 5:19,20
DavidL, take off your bias glasses and you will see that the one who is true (God) has a son. So if the one who is true if Jesus, then please explain to me more about Jesus son. You see what you want to see. But I have pointed out the truth about this verse.
Your argument is not against me – but against Scripture..!!!
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You pick out certain verses in an attempt to validate your theory against the Trinity…yet the Bible clearly states that the Word was God. You reject this and re-interpret it to suit your ideas – but that’s your problem..I believe the Bible..!!!
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Bottom line – the things you teach are based on your own carnal premise, and simply hold no weight when it comes to the revelation of God and truth.If $10 buys a product then why would I pay $20 for it.
And if I can beat an army with my hands tied behind my back, then why would I raise an army to defeat them.
Likewise God delights in beating darkness with the weak things. He doesn’t need to try his hardest to defeat lies and darkness.
So Jesus words are enough too, to defeat false doctrines like the Trinity.
Jesus said, eternal life is this, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.
Game over. Jesus words win against your contrary words.
Certainly I can give you 100 scriptures. Start here:
But remember, you are the one repeatedly kicking against John 17:3, not me.
Remove the plank so you can see clearly. Take off your boots and treat Jesus words in John 17:3 with the respect that they deserve.Correction, not my scripture, but the very words of Jesus. So when Jesus says that the Father is the ONLY true God and then he further verifies that he is talking of the Father when he says, “and Jesus Christ WHOM HE has sent”, then you say this is not proof or a contradiction of the Trinity. Sorry but what planet are you from. He was very clear as to who the only true God is.
I am not buying your leaven. I will stick by Jesus words, that the only true God sent him and the only true God is Jesus, Father.
John 20:17 (English-NIV)
Jesus said, Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,
`I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
2 Corinthians 1:3 (English-NIV)
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,
1 Timothy 5:21
“I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels”.Jesus laid aside His position in the Godhead to become a man – this is what the Bible teaches…and here on earth as the Messiah He prays to the Father referring to Him as the only true God…no Spirit-led believer has a problem with this in the slightest..but because of your carnal mind-set you try and MAKE this verse contradict the Trinity..!!!
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Understand it this way – Jesus has MANY titles…He is both the Lion AND the Lamb. By using this verse to deny the Trinity you are taking one title of Christ OVER another – you are using His title of ‘Son’ to try and contradict His title of ‘God’ – that really is the folly of logic.All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness.
We can take comfort if scripture agrees with our faith and what we believe, but if it contridicts, then it is useful for correction. But it takes a humble man and true disciple to change when scripture is at odds with one’s belief.
Jesus said this while in the flesh:
Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,
`I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
So according to you, now that he is Heaven he is back as God right? Wrong.
Jesus said (while in Heaven in glory and at the right-hand of God):
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God.
Never again will he leave it.
I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
And our brother Paul who taught that for us there is one God the Father, also introduced many of his letters as expounding the truth of the one true God:
– Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
– And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.
– To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
– Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
– We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
– Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
– To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.you make a lot of false assumptions and should know better as the very diagram you use to denounce the Trinity explains perfectly that the Son is not the Father – yet both are united in the Godhead to form one God..
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So the fact that you continually bring up this wrong understanding of the Trinity (that the Son is actually the Father) can only be seen as a debating tactic to cast a confusing light over the reality of Christ’s true Deity as God..
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you say that All Scripture is inspired of God, and that it takes a humble man and true disciple to change when scripture is at odds with one’s belief.. and yet by your own words you openly incriminate yourself – for you are the one who changes John 1:1 (like the JW’s) to suit your own anti-trinity belief…!!!
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..again I will point out that these verses you use to differentiate between Father and Son are not proof against the Trinity…you miss the mark completely because every “Trinitarian” believer KNOWS that the Father is a separate Being to the Son…!!!
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But what you fail to realize and acknowledge is that, according to Jesus, the Son is ONE with the Father – and it is this UNITY of the Godhead that makes BOTH the Son and the Spirit ONE with the Father as the Triune God that all born-again saints have openly acknowledged and KNOWN to be absolutely TRUE, right down throughout the history of the whole Church-age until our own time…a Tri-unity that is also clearly seen in Satan’s counterpart 666 unity of Beast, False prophet, Antichrist…all working according to the power of Satan – three as one.Satan is the god of this age and he works through the Antichrist and the False Prophet.
God Almighty is the God of all and he works through Jesus his son, and also his Spirit.
Both the Almighty and Satan are called theos, but only one of them is the one true God.
If you say that Satan mimics the Tinity, then why is Satan called theos of this age and not the Antichrist and False Prophet.
By bringing up this idea earlier, you have inadvertantly supported the idea that Jesus taught that there is one true God who Paul calls ‘one God the Father’.
Because you are preaching this third century doctrine, you need to be careful about what scriptures you quote and what patterns you see in scripture, because they will end up supporting the truth and not the Trinity. Whereas, I am free to just quote scripture and not worry that it will somehow impose on a pet doctrine I might have. I am free DavidL. There is peace in this freedom. Let scripture teach you the truth. There is no peace when scripture becomes a tool to support a personal view. Better to let scripture reproof, correct, and encourage. After all, it is there to help you, not defend people’s pathetic reputations.
Everyday is God’s grace. A finite opportunity to be like him. More holy, more honest, more loving, and more wiser… We are not without spot and blemish yet. Why give this up to become a religious bigot, a Pharisee, or like one of those religious murderers who burned at the stake or persecuted those who did not adhere to Rome and her Trinity Doctrine. Why side with these who created the Dark Ages? Why preach their message. Why work for them? Is not your soul precious and should we not serve God and steer clear of the traditions of men and the doctrine of demons.
Jesus said, “eternal life is this, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”. Jesus also said, “my sheep hear my voice”. So why is it DavidL, that you refuse to hear Jesus on this one. Why is it that you try to talk me away from Jesus Christ. The real Jesus Christ. The one who said these words and believed them. The one who offered eternal life with these very words. And why are you trying to convince me that this is not true? Are you against me and others of obtaining eternal life?t8 it is your own logic that breeds confusion..
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Because you are committed to your fallacy you are forced to reject everything I say, but in so doing you are denying the truth about Jesus – a truth based not on my own reasoning, but in the revelation of God’s Word.
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Jesus says in John 14:23, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”
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…not just the Father and Son who will dwell in us but the Holy Spirit too – see how all Three are One in Christ…if we have Christ we have the Father and we have the Spirit.Jesus is one with the Father, and they invite us to be one with each other and one with them. This is not meant to be taken as a meta-physical gospel like the Trinity, but that we can be one in unity. The ironic thing here, is you know about this oneness as you apply it to three being God. Whereas the truth is that God is one with Christ, and we can be one with both God and Christ. This is the truth if you read the scriptures.
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