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Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,21:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,19:26) Wakeup, Quote The soul is the essence of the persons life. What do you mean by these words?
Your soul is waht you have done
in your life.
Have you been a God fearing person
or have you not.
If Christ have been introduced into your life,
What have you done with it.
If not; than what sort of a life have you been living.
Have you been a good person, or a bad person.wakeup.
Wakeup,Where in Scripture do you come by that understanding?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,05:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,21:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,19:26) Wakeup, Quote The soul is the essence of the persons life. What do you mean by these words?
Your soul is waht you have done
in your life.
Have you been a God fearing person
or have you not.
If Christ have been introduced into your life,
What have you done with it.
If not; than what sort of a life have you been living.
Have you been a good person, or a bad person.wakeup.
Wakeup,Where in Scripture do you come by that understanding?
Kerwin.Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours;
** and their works do follow them**.
Their works are to be judged.
christians or not.
*Good works will receive mercy*.
And by mercy only, can one receive life.All good works in the world; won't be enough to get the ticket to everlasting life.One need mercy.
The soul of man is the essence of the persons life.
A murderer's soul is a bad soul.
A God fearing soul is a good soul.
A non christian with many good works,will receive mercy in the second resurrection.Not the first resurrection.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 11 2013,03:48) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,05:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,21:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,19:26) Wakeup, Quote The soul is the essence of the persons life. What do you mean by these words?
Your soul is waht you have done
in your life.
Have you been a God fearing person
or have you not.
If Christ have been introduced into your life,
What have you done with it.
If not; than what sort of a life have you been living.
Have you been a good person, or a bad person.wakeup.
Wakeup,Where in Scripture do you come by that understanding?
Kerwin.Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours;
** and their works do follow them**.
Their works are to be judged.
christians or not.
*Good works will receive mercy*.
And by mercy only, can one receive life.All good works in the world; won't be enough to get the ticket to everlasting life.One need mercy.
The soul of man is the essence of the persons life.
A murderer's soul is a bad soul.
A God fearing soul is a good soul.
A non christian with many good works,will receive mercy in the second resurrection.Not the first resurrection.wakeup.
Wakeup,That passage does not answer my question of where you got your understanding of what a soul is. It does not agree with the way it was used when man was first created as Adam became a living soul when the breath meant the body. It was before he did anything good or bad and it is living. Even animals are said by Scripture to have souls and I don's see that meaning what they have done in this life.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,09:23) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 11 2013,03:48) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,05:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,21:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,19:26) Wakeup, Quote The soul is the essence of the persons life. What do you mean by these words?
Your soul is waht you have done
in your life.
Have you been a God fearing person
or have you not.
If Christ have been introduced into your life,
What have you done with it.
If not; than what sort of a life have you been living.
Have you been a good person, or a bad person.wakeup.
Wakeup,Where in Scripture do you come by that understanding?
Kerwin.Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours;
** and their works do follow them**.
Their works are to be judged.
christians or not.
*Good works will receive mercy*.
And by mercy only, can one receive life.All good works in the world; won't be enough to get the ticket to everlasting life.One need mercy.
The soul of man is the essence of the persons life.
A murderer's soul is a bad soul.
A God fearing soul is a good soul.
A non christian with many good works,will receive mercy in the second resurrection.Not the first resurrection.wakeup.
Wakeup,That passage does not answer my question of where you got your understanding of what a soul is. It does not agree with the way it was used when man was first created as Adam became a living soul when the breath meant the body. It was before he did anything good or bad and it is living. Even animals are said by Scripture to have souls and I don's see that meaning what they have done in this life.
Kerwin.Adams soul was clean and innocent,
before he sinned. After he sinned;his soul was tainted.
Animals have souls, but not to be judged,
For they dont know what is good and what is evil.
What a person has done in his life,that will be judged.
What else?
Not all souls are the same.
There are righteous souls, and there are unrighteous souls.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,03:19) So you are dictating what John should have written as he was led by the Holy Spirit?
How could I possibly dictate TODAY what was already written 2000 years ago?Instead, it is YOU who is TRYING TO (unsuccessfully) dictate what John should have written – by ADDING your own words into what he did write.
You think John should have written, “The Word came to be IN someone who was already flesh”. But give it up, Kerwin. You cannot dictate TODAY what has already been in black and white for all to see for almost 2000 years. The best you can do is try to come to an understanding that actually FITS the words John DID write all those years ago. And ALTERING his words is NOT the way to do that.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,03:19) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Now, your unscriptural claim is that “the word was made flesh by placing it in Jesus.” It seems you object to the how being my paraphrase even though it seems you do not want to go so far to deny that Jesus has the word placed in him and written on his mind. At this time you have to prove your by is supported by a stronger case than my by.
I'm not even sure if what you wrote there is English, Kerwin. I surely don't know what you're saying.But I will say that ADDING your own words into the scriptures (words that completely ALTER the meaning of the text) is NOT called “paraphrasing”. Paraphrasing is the art of conveying the exact original meaning using different wording.
“The Holy Spirit BECAME flesh” does not MEAN the same thing as “The Holy Spirit came to be IN someone who was flesh” – and therefore the latter is NOT a “paraphrase” of the former. Instead, it is a complete ALTERATION of the former, and ends up teaching a completely different thing.
Besides, didn't you just post some Wikipedia stuff to jammin about the paraphrasing of the CEV Bible? Didn't you and Wikipedia conclude that paraphrasing is not the best way to go?
As for the rest of that hard to understand response, I will point out that you're trying to say Jesus is the first recipient of that prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33. Your claim is that John 1:14 is saying that Jesus is the first to have God's law written on his heart and mind, right? And to say that, you have to believe that “the Word of God” is really “the LAW of God”, right?
So, was the LAW of God with God in the beginning?
Is the LAW of God actually God Himself?
Were all things in heaven and earth created through the LAW of God?
Did the LAW of God dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?
Was John the Baptist sent to pave the way for the LAW of God? Is that what he came to testify about – the LAW of God?
Is the LAW of God the light of the world?
You don't need to answer these, Kerwin. I posted them in the hope that you would think your doctrine through a little better before preaching it to others.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,03:19) I will let you answer that question yourself as it is about the works of the Spirit. Here are a couple of passages to assist you.
I read the passages you posted. Are you thinking that Paul is saying the time is NOW that the law of God is written on the hearts of all men, so they don't have to say to their neighbors, “Know the Lord”, because they all already know Him, from the least to the greatest?Read the last words of Hebrews 8:
8:13 When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.The new covenant has been established – that's for sure. Sacrifices are a thing of the past. But the complete fulfillment of that covenant has not come to pass yet. If it had come to pass already, where we are right now would be all there is. There would be no heaven or everlasting life to look forward to, would there? That's why the writer of Hebrews said the old is NEAR TO disappearing.
Think it out, Kerwin. What was the “Great Commission” Jesus gave to his disciples before ascending to where he was before? Wasn't it to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in his name, and teaching them to obey everything he had commanded them?
Why would that be necessary if God's law was already written on the hearts and minds of ALL MEN, so they didn't have to say, one neighbor to another, “Know the Lord”?
It was necessary because that part of the prophecy is not yet fulfilled. It won't be fulfilled until after the resurrection, IMO. It is then that all will be judged, and all those who are judged favorably, and granted everlasting life will be the ones who all already know the Lord, and will therefore not have to say to their neighbors, “Know the Lord”.
But none of that fits into this thread. The bottom line is that you have to ALTER John's words for your understanding to be realized. You have to pretend that “the Word came to be IN someone who was flesh” means the same thing as “the Word BECAME flesh”.
And the only reason I said anything at all was to point out how funny it was to see you summarizing your beliefs of the scriptures – but ALTERING those very scriptures so that they supported those beliefs.
I will continue to point it out when I see it in the future. But that doesn't mean I want a huge discussion with you about this stuff we've already discussed a hundred times.
So I'm DONE with this discussion right now. It is not the thread for it anyway.
Just remember that you have to ALTER scriptural words so your doctrine can be realized. When you come up with a doctrine that DOESN'T rely on you ALTRERING scriptural words, you'll be getting closer to the truth of the Bible.
Mike,
Quote “The Holy Spirit BECAME flesh” does not MEAN the same thing as “The Holy Spirit came to be IN someone who was flesh” – and therefore the latter is NOT a “paraphrase” of the former. Instead, it is a complete ALTERATION of the former, and ends up teaching a completely different thing. What I said was that “The word was made flesh by placing it in Jesus” was a paraphrase of the “the word was made flesh” not what you are saying. Nerveless it is true that the Word is made flesh is the same as saying “The Holy Spirit came to be in someone” because the Holy Spirit reveals the word. It is also the same as saying the word is manifest in the flesh.
Wakeup,
I have never understood where in Scripture those who espouse the tenet you do about the soul are coming from.
You seem to be claiming the soul is a record of our deeds and was a blank one when adam was first created while is serves no purpose in animals.
Do you a part of a man lives on after the death of his flesh?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,21:53) Wakeup, I have never understood where in Scripture those who espouse the tenet you do about the soul are coming from.
You seem to be claiming the soul is a record of our deeds and was a blank one when adam was first created while is serves no purpose in animals.
Do you a part of a man lives on after the death of his flesh?
Kerwin.Man can kill the body,but can not touch the soul:
Ezekiel 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: **the soul that sinneth**, it shall die.(FOREVER DESTROYED).
Ezekiel 18:5 But if a man be just, **and do that which is lawful and right**, (WORKS).
Ezekiel 18:6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, (WORKS).
Ezekiel 18:7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; (WORKS).
Ezekiel 18:8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, (WORKS).
Ezekiel 18:9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.(WORKS).
Ezekiel 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
Ezekiel 18:11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
Ezekiel 18:12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
Ezekiel 18:13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. (WORKS).
MAN CAN KILL THE BODY;BUT CAN NOT TAKE AWAY
THE LIFE TIME DEEDS/WORKS.
THAT IS STORED IN THE BOOKS.
AND MAN WILL BE JUDGED BY THE BOOKS.
CHRISTIANS WILL BE JUDGED BY THE WORKS OF FAITH.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Quote soul that sinneth I did not hear where you said a soul could commit sin. I thought you were instead saying that the soul is are cord of a man's actions. It seems I am wrong in that understanding but please let me know instead of just giving me clues to help me guess at the answer.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2013,10:38) Wakeup, Quote soul that sinneth I did not hear where you said a soul could commit sin. I thought you were instead saying that the soul is are cord of a man's actions. It seems I am wrong in that understanding but please let me know instead of just giving me clues to help me guess at the answer.
Kerwin.I have done my best to explain.
What is it that will be judged IN the SECOND RESURRECTION?Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and **the books were opened**:
and another book was opened,
**which is the book of life**:
and the dead
**were judged out of those things which were written in the books**,
**according to their works**.Is the flesh judged; or the life time works of the flesh?
The essence of the flesh?wakeup.
Wakeup,
I understand that the soul that commits sin is the one that will die. That does not seem to be what you are saying in your own words.
There is a book of the dead and a book of life and the name of the soul that commits sin is written in the book of the dead.
Psalm 42:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks,
so panteth my soul after thee, O God.In this one a soul panteth after God, how does that go with your understanding of what a soul is?
Mike,
Quote Besides, didn't you just post some Wikipedia stuff to jammin about the paraphrasing of the CEV Bible? Didn't you and Wikipedia conclude that paraphrasing is not the best way to go? Wikipedia did not voice an opinion on the subject, they did say the CEV used paraphrase.
I did voice the opinion that paraphrase is more subject to individual bias than a word for word translation.
I then used paraphrase to demonstrate that the clause “The Word was made flesh” is the result of an action and not the how, The who and why are not mentioned in that clause either. I believe we agree on the later two but have a disagreement on how the Word was made flesh.
We also have a disagreement on what Word and flesh mean with me preferring a more literal on “Word and maybe even “flesh” why you see “Word” as a title and “flesh” as meaning human being.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,12:34) Mike, Quote “The Holy Spirit BECAME flesh” does not MEAN the same thing as “The Holy Spirit came to be IN someone who was flesh” – and therefore the latter is NOT a “paraphrase” of the former. Instead, it is a complete ALTERATION of the former, and ends up teaching a completely different thing. What I said was that “The word was made flesh by placing it in Jesus” was a paraphrase of the “the word was made flesh” not what you are saying. Nerveless it is true that the Word is made flesh is the same as saying “The Holy Spirit came to be in someone” because the Holy Spirit reveals the word. It is also the same as saying the word is manifest in the flesh.
kERWIN………THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT BROTHER. , the word which Jesus said was Spirit came to be “IN” Jesus by the Anointing of the Holy Spirit. Just as it did the Prophets of old.Hebrews states…..> For “GOD SPOKE” to us in times pass through the Prophets, has in these latter days ” SPOKEN” to us “THROUGH” a SON.
Simple as that it was God who is a SPIRIT speaking “IN” and “Through” Jesus' mouth his own words. They Just Don't understand GOD was TRULY “IN” Jesus. Jesus said over and over the words he was speaking were not “HIS” word but the Father who was “IN” Him telling him what to say and even more, how to say them.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2013,23:06) Wakeup, I understand that the soul that commits sin is the one that will die. That does not seem to be what you are saying in your own words.
There is a book of the dead and a book of life and the name of the soul that commits sin is written in the book of the dead.
Psalm 42:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks,
so panteth my soul after thee, O God.In this one a soul panteth after God, how does that go with your understanding of what a soul is?
Kerwin.What are you trying to say with psalms 42:1?
That's about the desire for God in his heart.Revelation 20:12 **And I saw the dead**,(ALL DEAD).
small and great, stand before God; and
**the books were opened**:
and
**another book was opened**,
**which is the book of life**:
and *the dead* were judged out of those things which were written in the books,
****according to their works****.(THE SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE).(CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE).
********
Where does it say that one book is for the living,and one for the dead?(AND I SAW THE DEAD,SMALL AND GREAT).
THEY ARE ALL DEAD.
**********
1.BOOKS WERE OPENED; MORE THAN ONE.
2.AND ANOTHER BOOK,WHCH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE.
3.ANYONE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE SHALL LIVE.
4.ANYONE WRITTEN IN THOSE OTHER BOOKS WILL BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.SO WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THOSE BOOKS?
IS IT NOT THE WORKS?
EXPLAIN.THE BREATH OF LIFE IS BREATHING,IN AND OUT.
IF THE BREATHING STOPS;ONE DIES.
THE FLESH TURNS TO DUST.
WHAT ELSE OF THE PERSON IS LEFT?
HIS PICTURES?wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,19:34) Nerveless it is true that the Word is made flesh is the same as saying “The Holy Spirit came to be in someone” because the Holy Spirit reveals the word. It is also the same as saying the word is manifest in the flesh.
1. God was IN Jesus, doing the works.2. God BECAME Jesus, and did the works.
Kerwin, the day those two statements mean the same thing is the day your alteration of John 1:14 means the same thing as what John actually wrote.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2013,06:19) I did voice the opinion that paraphrase is more subject to individual bias than a word for word translation.
I repeat: Paraphrasing is the art of conveying the SAME EXACT MEANING using different words.And I hope you'll agree that #1 in my previous post is NOT actually a “paraphrase” of #2. Instead, they both say COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.
It is the same with your rendition of John 1:14. It says a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing than John actually wrote – and is therefore NOT a “paraphrase”.
Wakeup,
Soul is the passage from Revelation 20 you are quoting so I have no idea why you believe that certain of the books are souls. I do know that anyone written in any book but the book of life will be thrown int tho the Lake of Fire.
Revelation 20:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We have passages that mention the soul and one of those say the soul that sinneth will be thrown in the Lake of Fire and the other informs us some souls panteth for God.
Here is another one that describes a part of a human that hungers and thirst for God's righteousness. It sounds similar to the one from Psalms.
Matthew 5:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2013,21:18) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2013,06:19) I did voice the opinion that paraphrase is more subject to individual bias than a word for word translation.
I repeat: Paraphrasing is the art of conveying the SAME EXACT MEANING using different words.And I hope you'll agree that #1 in my previous post is NOT actually a “paraphrase” of #2. Instead, they both say COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.
It is the same with your rendition of John 1:14. It says a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing than John actually wrote – and is therefore NOT a “paraphrase”.
Mike,What you say John 1:14 says is not what it literally says. What you are saying with your meaning is that a creature called the word was made into a human being by transformation. I disagree.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2013,21:13) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2013,19:34) Nerveless it is true that the Word is made flesh is the same as saying “The Holy Spirit came to be in someone” because the Holy Spirit reveals the word. It is also the same as saying the word is manifest in the flesh.
1. God was IN Jesus, doing the works.2. God BECAME Jesus, and did the works.
Kerwin, the day those two statements mean the same thing is the day your alteration of John 1:14 means the same thing as what John actually wrote.
Mike,Why do you think Jesus stated that one of the twelve was a devil?
John 6:70
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
in case you need it here is another way Scripture paraphrases what he said.
Luke 22:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 12 2013,19:51) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,12:34) Mike, Quote “The Holy Spirit BECAME flesh” does not MEAN the same thing as “The Holy Spirit came to be IN someone who was flesh” – and therefore the latter is NOT a “paraphrase” of the former. Instead, it is a complete ALTERATION of the former, and ends up teaching a completely different thing. What I said was that “The word was made flesh by placing it in Jesus” was a paraphrase of the “the word was made flesh” not what you are saying. Nerveless it is true that the Word is made flesh is the same as saying “The Holy Spirit came to be in someone” because the Holy Spirit reveals the word. It is also the same as saying the word is manifest in the flesh.
kERWIN………THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT BROTHER. , the word which Jesus said was Spirit came to be “IN” Jesus by the Anointing of the Holy Spirit. Just as it did the Prophets of old.Hebrews states…..> For “GOD SPOKE” to us in times pass through the Prophets, has in these latter days ” SPOKEN” to us “THROUGH” a SON.
Simple as that it was God who is a SPIRIT speaking “IN” and “Through” Jesus' mouth his own words. They Just Don't understand GOD was TRULY “IN” Jesus. Jesus said over and over the words he was speaking were not “HIS” word but the Father who was “IN” Him telling him what to say and even more, how to say them.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Gene,Your words sound right.
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