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This is a conversation between Wakeup and myself continued from the who is the word thread.
Quote As I have said.
Your stumbling block is the appearing of Jesus in the flesh.I believe your stumbling block is that you fail to understand the idiom's of the time in which the New Testiment was wrote and for your own reasons choose to disregard anything that instructs you about them.
Quote Jesus is definitely not sitting next to His father clothed in the flesh.You dont make any difference between life in heaven and life on earth. The 24 elders and billions of angels are definitely not before the throne of God in the flesh.
You say that only evil spirits are spirit.
I say that they can also appear as flesh,but only by the
will of God.Where is your evidence that these creations of God are not there in their physical nature?
I have very little non-symbolic information to go on about how heaven is. I do know that the temple that was is supposed to be a model of God's throne room though in Jehovah's case it does not have a literal throne for him for he is spirit and cannot eat or be touched by a literal throne.
Quote You must also know the difference between evil spirits and evil angels.
Evil spirits are the souls of them giants and their wives
and children that died in the flood.
Their souls are not accepted in heaven,so they just wonder around in the earth,and in the dry desertA old Jewish belief from the first book of Enoch, and maybe the other Enochs, and Jubilees but not one I find supported in Scripture as Jesus teachings us angels neither marry nor are given in marriage. It also fits with older Canaanite and older Greek teachings where gods mate with humans.
Quote There is the body;and there is the soul.
The body is material;the soul is spiritual.
The resurrection will be of the soul,not the flesh.
The flesh will just evaporate.The body is physical and the soul is non-physical but a soul without a body is found naked and it a ghost, a shadow of the person who belongs to. With rare exceptions, these ghosts dwell in Sheol/Hades/Grave/Hell. The resurrected therefor have bodies.
Quote There is the breath of life that gives life *to the flesh*.
And the soul is the essence of the persons life.
His works during his lifetime.
Either good works or bad works.When the spirit of life first enters the human body man first become a living soul as his flesh gains life, equivalent to the beasts. It is only after that he became a Spiritual man, a man created upright and so bearing the image of God as well as the likeness of certain angels.
A soul is the part of the man that remains when he is unclothed from his body and his spirit of life returns to God. It is the part that is bore to Sheol/Hades/Grave/Hell when a man's body is laid in the burial grounds.
Note: ran spell check
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,22:16) This is a conversation between Wakeup and myself continued from the who is the word thread. Quote As I have said.
Your stumbling block is the appearing of Jesus in the flesh.I believe your stumbling block is that you fail to understand the idiom's of the time in which the New Testiment was wrote and for your own reasons choose to disregard anything that instructs you about them.
Quote Jesus is definitely not sitting next to His father clothed in the flesh.You dont make any difference between life in heaven and life on earth. The 24 elders and billions of angels are definitely not before the throne of God in the flesh.
You say that only evil spirits are spirit.
I say that they can also appear as flesh,but only by the
will of God.Where is your evidence that these creations of God are not there in their physical nature?
I have very little non-symbolic information to go on about how heaven is. I do know that the temple that was is supposed to be a model of God's throne room though in Jehovah's case it does not have a literal throne for him for he is spirit and cannot eat or be touched by a literal throne.
Quote You must also know the difference between evil spirits and evil angels.
Evil spirits are the souls of them giants and their wives
and children that died in the flood.
Their souls are not accepted in heaven,so they just wonder around in the earth,and in the dry desertA old Jewish belief from the first book of Enoch, and mabe the other Enoch's and Jublelees, but not one I find supported in Scripture as Jesus teacheds us angels neither marry nor are given in marriage. It also fits with older Cananite and older Greek teachings where gods mate with humans.
Quote There is the body;and there is the soul.
The body is material;the soul is spiritual.
The resurrection will be of the soul,not the flesh.
The flesh will just evaporate.The body is physical and the soul is non-physical but a soul without a body is found naked and it a ghost, a shadow of the person who belongs to. With rare exceptions, these ghosts dwell in Sheol/Hades/Grave/Hell. The resurected therefor have bodies.
Quote There is the breath of life that gives life *to the flesh*.
And the soul is the essence of the persons life.
His works during his lifetime.
Either good works or bad works.When the spirit of life first enters the human body man first become a living soul as his flesh gains life, equivilent to the beasts. It is only after that he became a Spiritual man, a man created upright and so bearing the image of God as well as the likeness of certain angels.
A soul is the part of the man that remains when he is unclothed from his body and his spirit of life returns to God. It is the part that is bore to Sheol/Hades/Grave/Hell when a man's body is laid in the burial grounds.
Kerwin.Either you believe in the bible or you dont.
It's no good cherry picking.
Pick only the scriptures that suites your believe.
The rest are all mistranslated.Kerwin: you have been found rejecting many scriptures
to get to your point.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2013,18:31)
Wakeup,You seem to be confused, It is I that have been forthright in quoting from Scripture and showing my reason and you who seem reluctant to. You have quoted some scripture and claimed they supported your point but not explained your reasoning for doing so. In some cases you blatantly contradicted the explicit words of Scripture and give no explanation for why you choose to do so. Sometimes I agree with your words but I have no idea how you came to it. From this it seems you hear something or come up with it yourself, like the sound, and go for it without regard for either logic or the Word of God.
For example, In my initial post you made a claim that seemed groundless to me and I asked “Where is your evidence that these creations of God are not there in their physical nature?”. You have not answered nor showed your work at the conclusion you reached. I believe you have been taught better than that.
As for me I referenced Scripture but did not quote from it in the same post. I pointed out that a body is physical; and so Adam' body was made physical, Genesis 2:7, and a soul is non-physical, it was not made from what is physical but was made when the life giving breath entered the body of Adam. I also pointed out that a soul without a body is found naked, 2 Corinthians 5:3, a ghost, 1 Samuel 28:13-15. If you are unfamiliar with the passages I reference or do not understand where I am coming from then humble yourself and ask as I asked you.
THE SCRIPTURES SEEN THROUGH KERWWIN'S EYES.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
IT IS NOT THE WORKS THAT WILL BE JUDGED.
BUT THE SPIRIT.(kerwin).Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE.(kerwin).
WHAT ABOUT FEMALE ANGELS.? (wakeup)?
WHAT ABOUT MALE AND FEMALE ANGELS FALLING IN LOVE AND WHAT ABOUT HAVING BABY ANGELS? (wakeup)?Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE. (kerwin).
MEANING THERE ARE ALSO MALE AND FEMALE ANGELS.(wakeup)?
THEY MUST BE PHYSICALLY COMPLETE.(wakeup)?Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
RESURRECTED IN GLORRIFIED FLESH AND BONE. (kerwin).
MALE AND FEMALE PHYSICALLY COMPLETE.(wakeup)?Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
JESUS MADE BETTER THAN THE ANGELS, FLESH AND BONE,BUT MORE GLORIFIED. (kerwin).
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
GOD'S IS A SPIRIT,BUT HIS SON IS FLESH AND BONE,GLORIFIED.(kerwin).
Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
NO; NOT SPIRIT,BUT FLESH AND BONE WITH THE SPIRIT, INSIDE. (kerwin).
Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
HE WAS MADE FLESH,FROM FLESH,NOT FROM SPIRIT TO FLESH, FOR HE WAS FLESH. (kerwin).
Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE,SO HE TOOK UPON HIM
FLESH AND BONE,AND WAS RESURRECTED IN FLESH AND BONE.(kerwin).2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
THOSE ANGELS NEVER DEFILED THEM SELVES WITH THE FLESH,THAT IS A HOAX.(kerwin).
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
THAT DID NOT HAPPEN,THEY NEVER LEFT THEIR ESTATE
TO DEFILE THEM SELVES WITH THE FLESH, THIS IS A HOAX.(kerwin).Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
THEY ARE ALL FLESH AND BLOOD IN HEAVEN,INCLUDING THE FOUR BEASTS.(kerwin).
Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.THOSE ANGELS DID NOT SIN IN THE DAYS OF NOAH.
THEY DID NOT MINGLE WITH WOMEN.
THAT IS A HOAX.(kerwin).Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
WHAT FOUR ANGELS? THERE ARE NO ANGELS BOUND.
BOUND FOR WHAT SIN, THEY NEVER WENT DOWN TO DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN. (kerwin).Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
THE DRAGON AND ALL THE ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE.
(kewin).
I WONDER IF HE ALSO BELIEVES THERE IS A FEMALE DRAGON. (wakeup)?Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
THOSE EVIL FLESH AND BONE CREATURES ARE RESIDING HERE ON EARTH.(kerwin).
THE APOSTLES COULD SEE JESUS COMPLETE WITH ALL HIS WOUNDS.
SO WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THE DRAGON AND HIS ANGELS.(how would kerwin explain this?)interesting
to get some knowledge in this.John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
NO; NOT SPIRIT; BUT GLORIFIED FLESH AND BONE,WITH THE SPIRIT INSIDE. (kerwin).
1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
CELESTIAL; MEANING FLESH AND BONE.(kerwin).
TERRESTRIAL,MEANING ALSO FLESH AND BONE.(kerwin).1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
YES; NATURAL AS OF FLESH AND BONE; AND SPIRITUAL
AS OF FLESH AND BONE WITH THE SPPIRIT INSIDE.
MALE AND FEMALE,WITH MALE AND FEMALE PARTS
COMPLETE.(wakeup)?1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
QUICKENING SPIRIT,MEANING; FLESH AND BONE WITH THE SPIRIT INSIDE.(kerwin).
1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
THE SPIRITUAL IS AS THE NATURAL EXCEPT THE NATURAL HAS THE SPIRIT INSIDE.(kerwin).
1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
THE EARTLY IS FLESH AND BONE;AND THE HEAVENLY IS ALSO FLESH AND BONE,WITH THE SPIRIT INSIDE.(kerwin).
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
THE IMAGE OF THE HEAVENLY IS FLESH AND BONE,
AND THE IMAGE OF THE EARTHLY IS JUST THE SAME.
(kerwin).1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
NOT NECESSARY SO; BECAUSE ALL ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE,WITH THE SPIRIT IN THEM.(kerwin).
Revelation 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
GOD DOES NOT HAVE A THRONE,HE DOES NOT NEED ONE.
(kerwin).Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
ROUND ABOUT WHAT THRONE? WHAT CROWNS?
THEY DONT NEED TO SIT. IF THEY DO THEY WOULD
JUST SIT ON THE FLOOR, WITH GOD.(kerwin).Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
AGREE; BUT NO THRONE.(kerwin).
Revelation 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
TAKE NOTE: THOSE BEASTS ARE ALSO FLESH AND BONE,
AND MALE AND FEMALE. (kerwin).Revelation 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
THEY ARE BEASTS OF FLESH
AND BONE.
THERE MUST BE FEMALE BEAST AND FEMALE ANGELS ALSO.
OR THEY WONT HAVE A COMPLETE BODY.(wakeup)?wakeup.
Wakeup,
You wrote too much for me to answer at one time. I will answer your first point using Scripture as you did.
Quote Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. IT IS NOT THE WORKS THAT WILL BE JUDGED.
BUT THE SPIRIT.(kerwin).A completely true statement of Jesus that can be misunderstood by those that do know the context both Jesus and his hearers at that time were aware of. We can sometimes derive that context from other passages. This is one of those cases.
Galatians 3:2-5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Reading this we discover that there are works that do not lead us to heaven even though they are done in obedience to God's law. Instead, these believers have begun to made perfect by the Spirit; The Spirit they received by faith.
Galatians 5:22-25
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Those who live by the Spirit bear the works of the Spirit.
Jesus was talking about the works of the Spirit and the works of Scripture even though the result, which cannot be accomplished by the later, is the same.
Note: I quoted Scripture and derived my points from those passages to show the work on how I reached my conclusion.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,01:11) Wakeup, You wrote too much for me to answer at one time. I will answer your first point using Scripture as you did.
Quote Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. IT IS NOT THE WORKS THAT WILL BE JUDGED.
BUT THE SPIRIT.(kerwin).A completely true statement of Jesus that can be misunderstood by those that do know the context both Jesus and his hearers at that time were aware of. We can sometimes derive that context from other passages. This is one of those cases.
Galatians 3:2-5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Reading this we discover that there are works that do not lead us to heaven even though they are done in obedience to God's law. Instead, these believers have begun to made perfect by the Spirit; The Spirit they received by faith.
Galatians 5:22-25
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Those who live by the Spirit bear the works of the Spirit.
Jesus was talking about the works of the Spirit and the works of Scripture even though the result, which cannot be accomplished by the later, is the same.
Note: I quoted Scripture and derived my points from those passages to show the work on how I reached my conclusion.
Kerwin.Can you please respond to my quotes above.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
and
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
and
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Quote ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE.(kerwin). Their bodies are not human flesh and bone but neither is the flesh and blood of a tree, human. They are natives of another dimension, alien to this one, though they are enough like us to be mistaken for human.
Quote WHAT ABOUT MALE AND FEMALE ANGELS FALLING IN LOVE AND WHAT ABOUT HAVING BABY ANGELS? Quote WHAT ABOUT FEMALE ANGELS.? (wakeup)? Their kind was all made at one time. There is and have never been children according to the ramification of Jesus' words. The only possible observation of women that might be angels are a couple of stork winged ones and a third mentioned in the same symbolic seeming passage, Zechariah 5:7-11. Otherwise, angels have the appearance of males.
Quote THEY MUST BE PHYSICALLY COMPLETE.(wakeup)? and
Quote MALE AND FEMALE PHYSICALLY COMPLETE.(wakeup)? Externally, yes; internally, I doubt it as they are not human.
Quote RESURRECTED IN GLORRIFIED FLESH AND BONE. (kerwin). Just like Jesus was buried in his mundane natural flesh and blood body and raised in his glorified Spiritual flesh and bone bone body, 1 Corinthians 15:35-39 in union with Luker 24:30. see note.
Note: I hope to do more than reference this.
Note: I just put a few addresses of the references from Scriptures I used in this. Most is derived from the passages you quoted and I am addressing in this post.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,12:43) Wakeup, Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
and
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
and
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Quote ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE.(kerwin). Their bodies are not human flesh and bone but neither is the flesh and blood of a tree, human. They are natives of another dimension, alien to this one, though they are enough like us to be mistaken for human.
Quote WHAT ABOUT MALE AND FEMALE ANGELS FALLING IN LOVE AND WHAT ABOUT HAVING BABY ANGELS? Quote WHAT ABOUT FEMALE ANGELS.? (wakeup)? Their kind was all made at one time. There is and have never been children according to the ramification of Jesus' words. The only possible observation of women that might be angels are a couple of stork winged ones and a third mentioned in the same symbolic seeming passage, Zechariah 5:7-11. Otherwise, angels have the appearance of males.
Quote THEY MUST BE PHYSICALLY COMPLETE.(wakeup)? and
Quote MALE AND FEMALE PHYSICALLY COMPLETE.(wakeup)? Externally, yes; internally, I doubt it as they are not human.
Quote RESURRECTED IN GLORRIFIED FLESH AND BONE. (kerwin). Just like Jesus was buried in his mundane natural flesh and blood body and raised in his glorified Spiritual flesh and bone bone body, 1 Corinthians 15:35-39 in union with Luker 24:30. see note.
Note: I hope to do more than reference this.
Note: I just put a few addresses of the references from Scriptures I used in this. Most is derived from the passages you quoted and I am addressing in this post.
Kerwin.You say: they are flesh and bone/blood,
but don't marry,but have the complete functions
of the male and female.Jesus is male.
So angels are male and female?
We will be resurrected male and female,but dont marry?
Satan is male?
The four beasts about the throne of God;
are they male or female?This is getting all out of proportion.
Kerwin;the fact is, angels are made of spirit,and we will be changed into spirit. For God is spirit, and his children will also be spirit.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
Please work at understanding my words better. The flesh and bone of angels is not human flesh and bone. Angels may not even have bone. Angels are do not marry nor are they given in marriage so any child angel was made in that form by God and not conceived of a female angel. There is definite words in Scripture that speak either of female angels or of child angels. The outside of an angel is completely functioning in all aspects mentioned in Scripture, except they neither marry or are given in marriage. The inside is anyone's guess as it is not mentioned in Scripture.
I don't know the gender of the four beasts because Scripture does not tell us. I do know that angels, except for maybe a few, are called males in Scripture.
I hope to address the resurrection issue on another post.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,16:07) Wakeup, Please work at understanding my words better. The flesh and bone of angels is not human flesh and bone. Angels may not even have bone. Angels are do not marry nor are they given in marriage so any child angel was made in that form by God and not conceived of a female angel. There is definite words in Scripture that speak either of female angels or of child angels. The outside of an angel is completely functioning in all aspects mentioned in Scripture, except they neither marry or are given in marriage. The inside is anyone's guess as it is not mentioned in Scripture.
I don't know the gender of the four beasts because Scripture does not tell us. I do know that angels, except for maybe a few, are called males in Scripture.
I hope to address the resurrection issue on another post.
Sorry Kerwin,but your explanantion is no where in scripture.
It's all made up of thin air.
Jesus said:look *this is* flesh and bone indeed.
He did not say; this is **spirit flesh** indeed.
Or *I am* flesh and bone indeed.
You have made *spirit flesh* as your own interpretation.Can you not see that you are only creating more confusion?
Flesh bodies without the complete members.
How can one tell the difference between the two gender'sAre the four beasts in heaven *spiritual flesh and bone*?
I am well informed regarding the resurrection,
as the scriptures says; we will be given a spirit body.John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh **is flesh**; and that which is born of the Spirit **is spirit**.
Kerwin: There no need to add anything to that *clear* statement.
No need to *add flesh* to the word spirit.wakeup.
Wakeup,
I was hoping that my words about Jesus' resurrection and that they were derived from 1 Corinthians 15:35-39 in union with Luke 24:39 world enlighten you on my reasoning; but it seems not to be the case. I see now that I mistyped and so gave the wrong verse of Luke 24 which could explain you not understanding. I am sorry. It is verse 39 not 30 as I erroneously typed.
1 Corinthians 15:35-39
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1) God uses Paul to speak of the resurrection.
2) The body that is sown is not the one that comes up.
3) It raises in a body as God chooses to give it.
4) Each seed its own body.
5) All flesh is not the same.To unite that Word to the Corinthians with that Word spoken through Luke I first quote.
Luke 24:39
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Now I apply Jesus' death and resurrection to the pattern set forth by Paul.
1) Jesus underwent the final resurrection.
2)
a) He was sown in a body that was proved mortal by perishing.
b) His body that came up is not the same.
c) His body that came up is flesh and bone.
3) He raised in the flesh and bone God chose to give him.
4) His mortal body has it's own resurrected body.
5) His mortal body is not the same as resurrected body.That is where the discussion on this is stands at the moment despite my error. Later on Paul calls the resurrected body a Spiritual body and the mortal body a natural body, 1 Corinthians 15:44.
You have two rational options that I see that can make at this point.
1) Claim that Jesus did not undergo the final resurrection and so was risen in a flesh and bone body that later underwent the change that undergoes those that still live at the time of his second coming.
2) Concede that Jesus underwent the final resurrection and his resurrected body is flesh and bone.There is a third possibility some have tried and that is that Jesus was a spirit when he spoke with his disciples to deny he was a spirit. Those words are in conflict with themselves and so it is not rational.
The first hypothesis fails when tested by 1 Corinthians 15:12-20.
Wakeup,
I have done two walkthroughs of my reasoning and expect you to use reason and do the same. I also expect you to address them with using a well reasoned argument.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,06:06) 1 Corinthians 15:35-39
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1) God uses Paul to speak of the resurrection.
2) The body that is sown is not the one that comes up.
3) It raises in a body as God chooses to give it.
4) Each seed its own body.
5) All flesh is not the same.
Kerwin,Good job of summarizing your thoughts on what Paul meant in verses 35-39.
Why not continue this same summary process through verse 50 for us?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,23:14) Wakeup, I have done two walkthroughs of my reasoning and expect you to use reason and do the same. I also expect you to address them with using a well reasoned argument.
Kerwin>Use logic,The *Word was spirit* made flesh.
How can the Reward be a *lesser body* than previously,
when He was spirit?Was that his reward for being faithful to his God?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 06 2013,23:12) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,23:14) Wakeup, I have done two walkthroughs of my reasoning and expect you to use reason and do the same. I also expect you to address them with using a well reasoned argument.
Kerwin>Use logic,The *Word was spirit* made flesh.
How can the Reward be a *lesser body* than previously,
when He was spirit?Was that his reward for being faithful to his God?
wakeup.
Wakeup,Where is it written that a body that is made alive by the Spirit is inferior to any other body?
Also the Word is spirit are words Jesus uttered after the Word was made flesh in him. What he is teaching us is that he utters Spiritual things because he is a Spirituals man. They are understood Spiritually.
1 Corinthians 2:13-14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
His reward for being faithful to God was that he was appointed as Lord of all things in heaven and on earth.
Philippians 2:9-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I did use logic in both my walkthroughs and you have only denied that reasoning by choosing not to address them with sound and valid reason supported by Scripture.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2013,21:56) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2013,06:06) 1 Corinthians 15:35-39
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1) God uses Paul to speak of the resurrection.
2) The body that is sown is not the one that comes up.
3) It raises in a body as God chooses to give it.
4) Each seed its own body.
5) All flesh is not the same.
Kerwin,Good job of summarizing your thoughts on what Paul meant in verses 35-39.
Why not continue this same summary process through verse 50 for us?
Mike,Paul starts talking like a Jew and I doubt anyone is interested in understanding such talk.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I did use logic in both my walkthroughs and you have only denied that reasoning by choosing not to address them with sound and valid reason supported by Scripture.[/quote]
Kerwin………Good post brother. They that teach Jesus as not being a human being from his berth into existence , are doing the very will of Satan the devil, it is Satan's will, that men see Jesus as different from the way they are. His desire is and was to give Jesus this different identity from mankind, by creating the doctrine of SEPARATION, FROM HIS human roots. Satan does not want us to see Jesus as a human being, who was perfected by the power of GOD. Jesus is the EXACT PROTOTYPE God has in mind for all humanity.
So all Satan's followers work to insure the acceptance this false doctrine , by insisting Jesus was a preexisting being , who preexisted as a GOD before his berth on this earth, and why is this so important to him (Satan), because it blinds the reality of what God can do for a 100% pure, Human being, And that he can do it equally for all human beings, This false doctrine causes people to not put “ALL” their faith in God Alone, because by accepting this, False teaching, it then causes a SEPARATION in the mind to occur in the minds of those who believe it and teach it.
They no longer IDENTIFY with Jesus on the SAME Level as themselves. This false teaching disconnects them from him mentally by moving him away from their own EXACT IDENTITY , it alters the IMAGE of JESUS from a human being to a God being, and turns the IMAGE of HIM into a MAN of SIN, mentioned in 2Ths2. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 07 2013,11:10) ….the Word is spirit are words Jesus uttered after the Word was made flesh in him.
Still adding that word “IN” into John 1:14, huh?
I wonder what doctrine you guys would come up with if you were prohibited from adding your own words into the scriptures. Perhaps the truth?
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