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For Tim and Kerwin:
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
A little food for thought before downgrading God's chosen people.
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 27 2010,09:50) HI Kerwin, The Bible clearly says Jesus' father was the “HolySpirit”,
why do you discount that FACT? (Matthew 1:18, 1:20)Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the
Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing
which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Hi Ed,The scripture you quote disagrees with your own claim. The “power of the Highest” is what impregnated Mary. The “Highest” is God, and God used His Holy Spirit for the act of impregnation. But Jesus is GOD'S Son, as the last words of your scripture clearly say.
The Holy Spirit is OF God, not God Himself.
mike
Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 28 2010,11:52) Now if you guys are asserting that we will be able to do this at some future point in time…then i say fair enough….i guess we will see
Hi DK,I've been saying that for a while. The scriptural truth is NOT that Jesus was EXACTLY LIKE US. The scriptures teach that someday WE can be LIKE he is.
mike
DK………Wrong the scripture truth Jesus was (exactly) Like us in every way at berth, That is if your believe what scripture says. The difference was the MAN Jesus, who was (exactly identical to Us) had was given the fullness of the Spirit of GOD which He recieved at the Jordan river the fullness of it , and at that time he became the SON of GOD, Making him the FIRST BEGOTTEN SON of GOD as a full SON of GOD (from Mankind), while we who have recieved The holy Spirit now we only recieved the “earnest of the Spirit” known as the Spirit of truth. However we also will someday be in the fullness of the Spirit also and we will then be as Jesus is now in every way without exception except in position of authority. Jesus came into existence with no advantage over any other human being, he was flesh and blood and a helpless baby at berth and grew in statue and in understanding exactly as other do and GOD Keep Him and Blessed Him and Taught him from his youth and revealed himself to him over time, So he grew in faith and Knowledge as he matured, gaining favor with GOD and MAN. He was foreordained for His position in life before he ever existed,
He was truly one of Us Humans in every way , and all who try to separated that identity with us are most assuredly ANTICHRISTS. Jesus did not preexist his berth on earth as any kind of being whatsoever, He merely existed in the Plan and Will of God , because that was God plan all along for mankind, and Jesus was the first to achieve that goal from humanity. The First begotten from mankind . the first to be begotten of God from making, the first to be resurected from the dead from mankind.
DK……….good to see you back hope you stay fro a while brother.
Peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2010,15:20) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 27 2010,09:50) HI Kerwin, The Bible clearly says Jesus' father was the “HolySpirit”,
why do you discount that FACT? (Matthew 1:18, 1:20)Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the
Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing
which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Hi Ed,The scripture you quote disagrees with your own claim. The “power of the Highest” is what impregnated Mary. The “Highest” is God, and God used His Holy Spirit for the act of impregnation. But Jesus is GOD'S Son, as the last words of your scripture clearly say.
The Holy Spirit is OF God, not God Himself.
mike
Hi Mike,Do you deny that the “HolySpirit” is God Himself? (John 4:24 / Ephesians 4:6)
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit,
and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own?
and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived
this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMatt Boll,
Jesus is the archetype of those that were to come. In order to be such he must be not only human but also have both a sinful nature and a spirit of righteousness just like those that are in the new covenant. He could be said to have entered the new covenant before birth though that is not exactly correct as he is more author of it as God speaks and acts through him.
As for the spirit let me point to John the Baptist who also had the Spirit though not in the same way as Jesus. Scripture tells us that John would receive the spirit in his mother’s womb, Luke 1:15 note b in the NIV. We have an example of this as he leaped in his mother’s womb when Mary entered Elizabeth’s house showing he recognized her as the mother of Jesus, Luke 1:41.
Even though Jesus was born into sin he also had a complete faith in God and so God rewarded him with the Spirit of Holiness. The spirit kept him from falling to the desires of his sinful nature even before he could tell the difference between good and evil.
It is true that our impulsive sins committed before becoming mature in Christ will be forgiven and our forgiven when we confess and repent of our sins but it is also true that only those who walk according to the spirit will enter the kingdom of heaven, Galatians 5:16-26. To do this we must believe without doubt that God can and will do it for us.
It is a big difference and it is why Jesus is the reflection of God’s glory and we are a reflection of the reflection as we are adopted sons and he is the actual one.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2010,10:23) Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 28 2010,11:52) Now if you guys are asserting that we will be able to do this at some future point in time…then i say fair enough….i guess we will see
Hi DK,I've been saying that for a while. The scriptural truth is NOT that Jesus was EXACTLY LIKE US. The scriptures teach that someday WE can be LIKE he is.
mike
That I agree with.Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 28 2010,17:24) Hi Mike, Do you deny that the “HolySpirit” is God Himself? (John 4:24 / Ephesians 4:6)
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit,
and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own?
and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived
this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Keep reading Ed.Acts 5:9 NIV
9Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord?And you are the one who said, “The Bible clearly says Jesus' father was the “HolySpirit”,”. Do you think the Holy Spirit is another God? If not, then why put it like that? God is the Father of Jesus. And He impregnated Mary by means of HIS Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not an entity that can “father” a child, it is the Spirit of God – a PART of the being of God.
mike
Kerwin:
Quote It is true that our impulsive sins committed before becoming mature in Christ will be forgiven
There's a difference between Christ and us then.Kerwin:
Quote It is a big difference and it is why Jesus is the reflection of God’s glory and we are a reflection of the reflection as we are adopted sons and he is the actual one.
And there's another one.You're not helping your case here Kerwin.
Look, you're point is that Jesus had God's “Spirit of Holiness” from before he was born. We don't. Therefore he never sinned and we do.
Big difference if you ask me.
mike
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2010,18:24) Mike Boll, How did I downgrade the righteous of the tribes of Israel?
Hi Kerwin,You said:
Quote those who call themselves Jews are heretics In short I acknowledge I am a Gentile that is overjoyed to follow Jesus and thus the trunk of Judaism and not the shed branches whatever they call themselves that have abandoned their first love.
To me it sounds like “Boy, I'm sure glad I'm not a JEW!” Am I wrong in my understanding?mike
Hi Mike,
Sorry for being off topic,
but could you please give me the link
to what Post of Martins was the final straw for him?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
We moderators see all the “report posts”, and there were many about Martian. I think the ones where he “dared” us to boot him were the last straws, but no one did anything about it because he left……..for a while.
Then when he came back with more hate, people reported it and t8 (I assume) blocked him.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,14:17) Kerwin: Quote What is written is that one becomes a son of God through receiving the Spirit of God. Jesus received the Spirit of Righteousness before he could be tempted by Satan and that made him the Son of God.
But I though your whole denial of the scriptures that clearly say Jesus pre-existed was based on the fact that it makes you feel all warm and cuddly knowing Jesus was EXACTLY LIKE US. But now you throw in an advantage that Jesus had OVER US. How can we be expected to achieve the goals that Jesus did if he was unfairly given the Spirit of Righteousness before he even had a chance to be tempted?
If we are not given that same Spirit in the same measure, then Jesus was NOT EXACTLY LIKE US.You just eliminated your whole reason for denying Jesus' pre-existence in the first place, Kerwin. So you might as well stop twisting and ignoring clear scriptures that say Jesus pre-existed – because you end up with the same result either way.
Kerwin:
Quote Many of the New Testament writers are Jews.
Are there any who are not? I thought they all were.peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,Most of the Apostles were from the tribe Benjamin, residing in Galilee.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThanks Ed. I guess that's something I haven't looked into yet……..the backgrounds of the NT writers. JA would be so proud of me for ignoring available resources!
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2010,15:10) Kerwin: Quote The answer is Jesus has no advantage over us, in regard to his not sinning despite being tempted as we are, that we cannot obtain. It is true that his faith in God has been complete since the moment he had the ability to choose to believe God and because of that he obtained and lived by the Holy Spirit.
But Jesus is said to NEVER have sinned. How did he manage that from birth until age 30……when he received the Holy Spirit?peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,I would also like to see Gene address this point!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2010,14:22) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 28 2010,17:24) Hi Mike, Do you deny that the “HolySpirit” is God Himself? (John 4:24 / Ephesians 4:6)
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit,
and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own?
and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived
this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Keep reading Ed.Acts 5:9 NIV
9Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord?And you are the one who said, “The Bible clearly says Jesus' father was the “HolySpirit”,”. Do you think the Holy Spirit is another God? If not, then why put it like that? God is the Father of Jesus. And He impregnated Mary by means of HIS Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not an entity that can “father” a child, it is the Spirit of God – a PART of the being of God.
mike
Hi Mike,You say: God is the Father of Jesus, yet the “HolySpirit” is said to have impregnated Mary! (Matt.1:18,20)
Are you saying God the Father is Jesus foster father, while the “HolySpirit” is Jesus real Father?
Does your spirit do things apart from you? Is your spirit somebody other than you?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2010,14:48) Hi Ed, We moderators see all the “report posts”, and there were many about Martian. I think the ones where he “dared” us to boot him were the last straws, but no one did anything about it because he left……..for a while.
Then when he came back with more hate, people reported it and t8 (I assume) blocked him.
mike
Hi Mike,OK; thanks for the info!
God bless
Ed JEDJ……..>Sin is not reckoned to a person until a certain age. Example all the Isrealites that were over twenty year of age died in the wilderness for their lack of Trust and faith in GOD , but all under twenty years were spared that fate. And they were not held accountable for that sin. They ask Jesus concerning a child, who sinned the Parents or the Child and Jesus said Neither of them did to cause that to happen to them. Jesus was taught God laws and statues from his youth by his parents and walked faithfully in them.God was with him even as a Child, and God can keep anyone from sinning if he so choses to that is simple for him to do, and that Should not be used to try to show separation from Jesus Humanity with all his Human brother and sisters, He was SON OF MAN,(FIRST) the second ADAM, and then Became a Son of GOD at the Jordan river when He recieved the HOLY SPIRIT INTO HIM. remember “thou art my son (THIS DAY) (I) GOD have Begotten you. It was not some time in his past GOD begot Jesus as a Son it was while He was in the flesh as a Human being Just like all of us are. Remember God said He (SHALL BE) my son and (I SHALL BE) His Father all future tense expressions and that took place at the Jordan river. WE can all come to the measure and the (FULLNESS) of the ((STATURE OF CHRIST) Jesus.
Despite what mike and others here say. Preexistences and Trinitarians continually try to drive a wedge between Jesus' (exact) Identity with Us as ONE of US HUMANS a real SON OF MAN, That is the Spirit (intellect) of Antichrist Paul and John were talking about. it was this separation cause by these false teaching .
EDJ, with that in mind go and read the teaching of the GNOSTIC'S Paul and John were dealing with and try to see what those teaching were doing and you will see they were driving a wedge of separation between Jesus and Us making Him different then we are, This is the exact same thing Preexistences and Trinitarians do today, they are separatist and there teachings had the beginnings with the Gnostic's in John and Paul's day. May GOD help you to see this and understand this .
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gen
Hi Gene,
So you're saying Jesus may have sinned between 1 and 20, but would not
have been held responsible for any such sin; is that about right?
So how do you account for the time between 20 and 30?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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