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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 26 2011,23:46) But since i believe there is only THE God, the only one that exist, than he is the only Personal God that I know of.
That scriptures teach that there is NO OTHER GOD besides THE GOD.
Hey D,Let's just drop this. I've grown weary of it because the scriptures clearly mention MANY gods, yet you stick your head in the sand and plug your ears and keep screaming, "But there is only ONE god!".
You need to start reading the scriptures from beginning to end and discover for yourself how many gods are mentioned. And sure, you and Keith can blow some of them off by claiming they are "false gods" and such…………but you can't blow off the ones who were actually vice regents of Jehovah Himself in this manner, unless you want to claim that Jehovah let "false gods" deliver His messages and accomplish His purposes. You can't blow off the ones who are with Jehovah in the "assembly of gods" this way, unless you want to claim that the most Holy Being in existence assembles with and presides over "false gods".
Wait! I just "thought" of something……….(or was this thought GIVEN to me?
)In 1 Cor 8:6, Jesus is called the "ONE Lord". Now because he is called this, do you think it means that there has really never been any other literal "lord" ever in the history of creation?
Keith seems to think that the "one God" and "one Lord" mentioned in 8:6 means that Jesus is the ONLY "God AND Lord" and the Father is the ONLY "God AND Lord", because they are "One". Do you both agree with this claim?
mike
Hey Mike,
Oh come on giving up already?
I can also say mike that i have grown weary of it because the scriptures clearl mention ONE GOD, yet you stick your head in the sand and plug your ears and keep screaming, "but there is MANY gods!"LOL…………
You do need to start reading scripture from the beginning ot the end, and discover for yourself how only One God is mentioned. And sure, you and Irene can blow some lame excuse by claiming they are "all gods" and such……..but you can't blow off the one True God who was actually the only God who is Jehovah himself and no other.
You asked two questions, and ill honestly answer them.
1. No
2. YesDeuce?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 01 2011,01:25) 1. No
2. Yes
Hi D,Then why would you think "one god" would be literal, if "one lord" is not? Do you not know that the words "god" AND "lord" were used for our ONLY Creator as well as many others? Do you forget that before Paul speaks of our "one god", he mentions that there are MANY gods in heaven and on earth?
I seriously don't get where you're having your hangup about this………….unless you prefer your own words to those of the scriptures.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2011,21:08) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 01 2011,01:25) 1. No
2. Yes
Hi D,Then why would you think "one god" would be literal, if "one lord" is not? Do you not know that the words "god" AND "lord" were used for our ONLY Creator as well as many others? Do you forget that before Paul speaks of our "one god", he mentions that there are MANY gods in heaven and on earth?
I seriously don't get where you're having your hangup about this………….unless you prefer your own words to those of the scriptures.
mike
Everything depends on context Mike
So therefore everytime is I say I believe in One God, people shouldnt believe that because its not literal?IF i say i believe in one God than I believe in one God.
Scriptures state that there is only ONE True GOD.So When paul speaks about other "so called" gods, because men called them as gods, or hold them as gods, or are in some sense in authority as if they were a god, but we all know as paul states that there are many, there is ONLY ONE GOD AND ONE LORD.
I dont get why you cant take the the literal as it is, and make up some lame excuse into deciphering the greek and hebrew to prove your point.
Why cant you take simply what scriptures state.
Mike is there only ONE GOD? does scripture not state that There is no other God be Jehovah?
To all!
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
Psa 82:1 ¶ [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Psa 86:8 Among the gods [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; neither [are there any works] like unto thy works.
In Ancient times many were called God, today we call them boss etc. We only call Jehovah God and Jesus God. A title…..
Peace Irene
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 01 2011,13:27) I dont get why you cant take the the literal as it is, and make up some lame excuse into deciphering the greek and hebrew to prove your point. Why cant you take simply what scriptures state.
Mike is there only ONE GOD? does scripture not state that There is no other God be Jehovah?
Okay D,Then why don't YOU take the "one Lord" part literally? You don't take that part literally because you KNOW it is a statement of emphasis, meaning that out of all the beings who were ever called "lord", Jesus is the "main" one, or the "head" one – above all others. We are to obey THIS PARTICULAR "Lord" above any other lords we might have ruling over us.
Surely you can understand this, and therefore answered "NO" to my question about Jesus literally being the ONLY "lord" in existence. So why can't you understand it with the word "elohim" and "theos", which were used similarly to the way "lord" was used?
And Paul doesn't say "so-called gods". He says that there are many that are called god, both in heaven and on earth. D, can you name an example of one of these "heavenly gods"? He also calls Satan a god. Not a "so-called god" or a "false god", but "the god of this world".
Irene has listed five very good scriptures to help you with this dilemma. Two of them say that YHWH is the ONLY god, yet the other three mention other gods. Now how can that be if scriptures don't contradict each other? Here's an example that might also help:
2 Samuel 7
22 “How great you are, Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears. 23 And who is like your people Israel—the one nation on earth that God went out to redeem as a people for himself, and to make a name for himself, and to perform great and awesome wonders by driving out nations and their gods from before your people, whom you redeemed from Egypt?Are you beginning to understand, D? First David says "there is NO GOD BUT YOU". But in the same prayer, He praises the God of Israel for driving out the other nation's gods. He doesn't say God drove out the other nation's "false gods" or "so-called gods", does he?
Consider this one:
Daniel 10
13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.20 So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; 21 but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.
Now what kind of being do you suppose could detain an angel sent on a mission from God Himself for 21 days? A human? An idol? A "so-called god" or "false god"? Nothing but a very powerful spirit being could do this. And in Biblical times, a very powerful spirit being was referred to as a "god" in many cases. These are not "imaginary" beings D, but real live powerful spirit creatures. Paul says these are who our battle is against in this scripture:
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.Satan is one of these………..in fact, the leader of them. He is a very powerful spirit being who has been allowed by God to act against his own God – within set parameters. (As shown in the Book of Job, Satan can only do what is allowed by God Himself.) Yet Paul uses the word "god" to describe this very powerful spirit being. Do you understand? There are MANY gods, in heaven and on earth. Satan is one of these. The Prince of Persia is another. Michael the Archangel is another. And so on, and so on.
So Paul and Jesus are not saying there are literally no other gods at all, but instead emphasizing the ONE God who is above all of the other ones. Much like Paul wasn't saying there are literally no other lords at all, but instead emphasizing the ONE Lord who is above all of the other ones.
I hope you understand this D, for I won't go through all this again for you. You asked me why I can't simply take what the scripture states. Well first, we must take ALL scriptures into account, not just one of them. And secondly, if you want to take 1 Cor 8:6 and John 17:3 to mean there literally is only ONE God, then you must accept the One they both name AS that "only ONE God". And that is the Father alone. Not Jesus, and not some combination of the two. (For more on this subject, check out the "One Question for Keith" thread – where he is now stuck in his own words and so far refusing to answer my last post.
)D, I know this post is long, but I won't respond to a long response from you. This post was like the sacrifice of our Lord – once for all time.
If you still don't understand that there are many gods mentioned in the scriptures, there is nothing more I can do for you.peace,
mikeQuote (Baker @ May 02 2011,00:30) To all!
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
Psa 82:1 ¶ [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Psa 86:8 Among the gods [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; neither [are there any works] like unto thy works.
In Ancient times many were called God, today we call them boss etc. We only call Jehovah God and Jesus God. A title…..
Peace Irene
Your just proving my point Irene… lol
Hi Mike,
Im terribly bored tonight sooooo Im here. HA.
Quote Then why don't YOU take the "one Lord" part literally? You don't take that part literally because you KNOW it is a statement of emphasis, meaning that out of all the beings who were ever called "lord", Jesus is the "main" one, or the "head" one – above all others. We are to obey THIS PARTICULAR "Lord" above any other lords we might have ruling over us.
Actually Its more of a state of Clarity that though many were called "lord" there is and always was, ONE lord. You just believe its a emphasis, not that Paul's intent was ever to state so. You clearly says there is only ONE lord.Quote Surely you can understand this, and therefore answered "NO" to my question about Jesus literally being the ONLY "lord" in existence. So why can't you understand it with the word "elohim" and "theos", which were used similarly to the way "lord" was used?
Surely you can understand that im treating "elohim"-"Theos" and Lord the same way. In other words, if I am the Lord of this household, than I am counted a Lord or even in the British Kingdom there are those considered as "lords" for some kind of standard in soceity. But we know that the Bible speaks of ONE LORD, that supplies all our needs, that by His will alone grants authority that only comes from above. In other words even Pilate was Lord over the Lord at one point, but even Jesus said that his authority only comes from above, or whats granted. So therefore clearly there is only ONE in charge of it all, and is the only true Potter and we are the clay.Quote And Paul doesn't say "so-called gods". He says that there are many that are called god, both in heaven and on earth. D, can you name an example of one of these "heavenly gods"? He also calls Satan a god. Not a "so-called god" or a "false god", but "the god of this world".
Paul didnt say that, I did. I actually mentioned several times that Satan is a god of this world, does that mean he is your god mike?
is SATAN your God? was he EVER YOUR GOD? is there a point in time that SATAN was your god?Quote Are you beginning to understand, D? First David says "there is NO GOD BUT YOU". But in the same prayer, He praises the God of Israel for driving out the other nation's gods. He doesn't say God drove out the other nation's "false gods" or "so-called gods", does he?
Ok Mike than the next step is to question your beliefs.
DO YOU BELIEVE the GOD RA IS REAL?
The you believe that the Egyptian gods are real?
Dude seriously this is childs play. WE know that these gods are not real, they never existed, they are our IMAGINATIONS of men. Read Rom1. They are idols, imaginations of trying to explain god and this life. You really believe in these gods? and if you do show me an example of thier works?what happen with Baal and Elijah? why didnt Baal light up the freakin alter, becuase the GUYdidnt exist.
Really dude this is rediculuos. [/quote]
Quote Satan is one of these………..in fact, the leader of them. He is a very powerful spirit being who has been allowed by God to act against his own God – within set parameters. (As shown in the Book of Job, Satan can only do what is allowed by God Himself.) Yet Paul uses the word "god" to describe this very powerful spirit being. Do you understand? There are MANY gods, in heaven and on earth. Satan is one of these. The Prince of Persia is another. Michael the Archangel is another. And so on, and so on.
Mike, i totally understand the terms, but you take it as if these are really Gods when they are not.The God of Gods brings about a soverighty over everything.
Quote So Paul and Jesus are not saying there are literally no other gods at all, but instead emphasizing the ONE God who is above all of the other ones. Much like Paul wasn't saying there are literally no other lords at all, but instead emphasizing the ONE Lord who is above all of the other ones.
Here is the problem with your notions, is that the bible is clear that there is no other God and there was never another one formed after. There is but one God mike.
You want it to say that mike, but take what he says plainly.Quote
I hope you understand this D, for I won't go through all this again for you. You asked me why I can't simply take what the scripture states. Well first, we must take ALL scriptures into account, not just one of them. And secondly, if you want to take 1 Cor 8:6 and John 17:3 to mean there literally is only ONE God, then you must accept the One they both name AS that "only ONE God". And that is the Father alone. Not Jesus, and not some combination of the two. (For more on this subject, check out the "One Question for Keith" thread – where he is now stuck in his own words and so far refusing to answer my last post. )
One subject at a time old man.
Simply lets put it like this, im taking all scriptures into account and espeacily the ones that state over and over again that there is only ONE God.
Yet you manage the pull the minimal times its ever mentioned or states that there are other gods that exist, yet were never consider as actual gods.
For example, Judges were called by elohim, but were not literal "gods".
its as simple as that. you want it to say things that way, but the bible as a whole doesnt teach that.
It has always taught that the ONE TRUE GOD, will be all in all.or we could not simply take the one word "God" literally refering to the God we say we believe in.
for example:
1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
IF we go by your theology, to which God will be all in all?
Jesus?
IF God was simply a title than to whom does this passage refer to, and to WHICH of your gods.Quote
D, I know this post is long, but I won't respond to a long response from you. This post was like the sacrifice of our Lord – once for all time. If you still don't understand that there are many gods mentioned in the scriptures, there is nothing more I can do for you.
Well i think thats stupid. How can you write a long post and not expect me to respond to every little thing you write.
In other words your saying, "hey let me say whatever i want, but im not going to respond to you have more to say"
thats a bit unfair.
make your posts short than.If you simply cant understand there is only ONE true GOD in scripture than your simply fooled dude.
Deuce,
There is only one "true" God as HE is the source of/for everything. And there is only one "true" Lord as Jesus was placed in authority of everything by the Father. Any other gods or lords are positions and powers within creation not necessarily under subjection to the Father or His Son at this time.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (Baker @ May 02 2011,03:30) To all!
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
Psa 82:1 ¶ [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Psa 86:8 Among the gods [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; neither [are there any works] like unto thy works.
In Ancient times many were called God, today we call them boss etc. We only call Jehovah God and Jesus God. A title…..
Peace Irene
Irene,
The Father is the personage of God while the Son as His "agent" (Lord of Heaven and Earth) is within the position of God.My opinion – Wm
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
In other words, if I am the Lord of this household, than I am counted a Lord or even in the British Kingdom there are those considered as "lords" for some kind of standard in soceity. But we know that the Bible speaks of ONE LORD, that supplies all our needs, that by His will alone grants authority that only comes from above. In other words even Pilate was Lord over the Lord at one point, but even Jesus said that his authority only comes from above, or whats granted. So therefore clearly there is only ONE in charge of it all, and is the only true Potter and we are the clay.
So you DO understand after all. So where's the problem? Jesus being the "only Lord" does not mean King David, Samuel, and Elijah were "false lords" or "idols", right? So "ONLY" is not to be taken literally but, in your own words, to CLARIFY which Lord is above all the other lords.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
I actually mentioned several times that Satan is a god of this world, does that mean he is your god mike?
is SATAN your God? was he EVER YOUR GOD? is there a point in time that SATAN was your god?
Of course not. Why would Satan BEING a god mean that he had to be MY god?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
DO YOU BELIEVE the GOD RA IS REAL?
The you believe that the Egyptian gods are real?
I don't know anything about "RA", but yes, the gods of the Egyptians were real. And powerful too, judging from the fact that they turned their priests staffs into snakes and made frogs appear out of thin air, etc.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
You really believe in these gods? and if you do show me an example of thier works?
See above. Also, tell me what fake idol was powerful enough to delay Daniel's angel for 21 days.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
Mike, i totally understand the terms, but you take it as if these are really Gods when they are not.
And therein lies the problem, D. Because YOU (and society today), think of "god" as "THE Omniscient Creator of All Things", you are blind to the Biblical use of the word.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
The God of Gods brings about a soverighty over everything.
There can be no such thing as a "God of gods" if there is literally only one God.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
Here is the problem with your notions, is that the bible is clear that there is no other God and there was never another one formed after. There is but one God mike.
You want it to say that mike, but take what he says plainly.
Really? God says, "Apart from me, there is no god". God also says, "Apart from me, there is no savior". Would you like to discuss the many saviors that God sent and empowered?Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.Isaiah 19:20
It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, He will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.Get it? God doesn't mean He is the only savior, period. He means that no one else could save anyone from anything if not for Him.
If there is not LITERALLY only one Lord, and not LITERALLY only one savior, then you are blind to think there is LITERALLY only one god, when the phrase "God OF gods" prohibits your conclusion.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,01:22)
IF we go by your theology, to which God will be all in all?
Jesus?
IF God was simply a title than to whom does this passage refer to, and to WHICH of your gods.
YHWH. Why, do you have doubts about which God is refered to here?Mike,
You are irresponsibly misusing the Term 'God' to give your opponent cause to oppose your claims.The word and term 'God' means 'Mighty One'.
Yes, the 'gods' of scripture were 'Mighty Men', Heroes, Men of Godly or UnGodly valour as Satan IS a Mighty One of Ungodly valour.
Deborah was a Judge, one of mighty power OF and IN the LAW at that time.
Samson was also a mighty one in dispensing the LAW – he was a 'god' of the LAW.Moses was called 'One like God' (As God) to his brother Aaron. This not that he was a God in the sense that he was a Spirit of Almighty Power.
Your discussion are implying (Whether you realise it or not) that these human persons are also GOD like God Almighty – and that is what your opponents are arguing against you.
You have given them cause to imply what you don't realise you are implying.
'God' is a TITLE. A title that implies one of great power and might.
Hence even John 1:… can be seen as saying 'And the WORD was a Mighty One'.
Read that and see that it clears up the anomaly because as you and many others have said – it makes NO SENSE (In English) to say 'And the WORD was GOD' when the very previous verse clarifies by saying 'And the WORD was WITH GOD' – and … The following verse FURTHER clarifies 'He was in the beginning WITH GOD'It is clear that 'God' the word and term has to be suitably defined contextually.
Why is said of Jesus that he …SHALL BE CALLED… (a definite affirmative fact) MIGHTY GOD.
Mike, THE TRUE GOD is not MADE. Nor Created. Nor BECOMES. He IS, he Just IS – hence his NAME 'I AM' suitably, admirably, totally… describes The One True God Most High in a complete and succinct two word statement: 'I AM'.Quote You have given them cause to imply what you don't realise you are implying. 'God' is a TITLE. A title that implies one of great power and might.
Hence even John 1:… can be seen as saying 'And the WORD was a Mighty One'.
Read that and see that it clears up the anomaly because as you and many others have said – it makes NO SENSE (In English) to say 'And the WORD was GOD' when the very previous verse clarifies by saying 'And the WORD was WITH GOD' – and … The following verse FURTHER clarifies 'He was in the beginning WITH GOD'It is clear that 'God' the word and term has to be suitably defined contextually.
i been trying to say this for the longest timeall
Quote 'God' is a TITLE. A title that implies one of great power and might.
Hence even John 1:… can be seen as saying 'And the WORD was a Mighty One'.
Read that and see that it clears up the anomaly because as you and many others have said – it makes NO SENSE (In English) to say 'And the WORD was GOD' when the very previous verse clarifies by saying 'And the WORD was WITH GOD' – and … The following verse FURTHER clarifies 'He was in the beginning WITH GOD'It is clear that 'God' the word and term has to be suitably defined contextually.
this is a waits of time ,Christ came to make his father known so that we can be close to him like being one with the father ,a father is a close relationship ,the word GOD distance us from him and his power,
I will remain in my father quarters while others will still looking for word that dragged them away from the living God,and remain blind to the truth and love of the father.
Pierre
SF,
I have passed over these other threads as it seemed a pointless argument.I have told Mike about his style of argument – that they are not robust – he THINKS he is being true but truth is not his aim – it is just to argue.
What I have written I have written many times so it onlyshows that no one read it, and even if they did, they clearly did not understand – and then what else have they not understood that they later 'discover' like it had never been said here!
'God' is a TITLE… like 'King' so can be applied to many in context -but – all in all – there is One to whom the title is all encompassing : the God of ALL that are called Gods. The only uncreated God : YHVH.
Quote (Istari @ May 21 2011,05:20) Hence even John 1:… can be seen as saying 'And the WORD was a Mighty One'.
And so we can see that more than Jehovah are very powerful spirit beings who are called "god", right?Now pay attention to SF's point, Istari. He is saying that any other mention of a "god" in scripture is not a god at all, so therefore Jesus must be THE God, since there is only one.
Do you agree with this Istari?
Don't post that I'm being "irresponsible" when you have no idea what the discussion is really about, okay? I know exactly what I'm doing, and it has taken longer than expected because of SF's absolute insistence that there is only ONE god, period. That is NOT scriptural, no matter how politically correct it is in our day and age.
Who is "Beelzebub" guys? Any idea?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2011,17:58) Quote (Istari @ May 21 2011,05:20) Hence even John 1:… can be seen as saying 'And the WORD was a Mighty One'.
And so we can see that more than Jehovah are very powerful spirit beings who are called "god", right?Now pay attention to SF's point, Istari. He is saying that any other mention of a "god" in scripture is not a god at all, so therefore Jesus must be THE God, since there is only one.
Do you agree with this Istari?
Don't post that I'm being "irresponsible" when you have no idea what the discussion is really about, okay? I know exactly what I'm doing, and it has taken longer than expected because of SF's absolute insistence that there is only ONE god, period. That is NOT scriptural, no matter how politically correct it is in our day and age.
Who is "Beelzebub" guys? Any idea?
MikeReligious meaning
Ba‘al Zəbûb is variously understood to mean "lord of flies",[2][3][4][5] or "lord of the (heavenly) dwelling".[6][7][8] Originally the name of a Philistine god,[9] Beelzebub is also identified in the New Testament as Satan, the "prince of the demons".[10][11] In Arabic the name is retained as Ba‘al dhubaab / zubaab (بعل ألذباب), literally "Lord of the Flies". Biblical scholar Thomas Kelly Cheyne suggested that it might be a derogatory corruption of Ba‘al Zəbûl, "Lord of the High Place" (i.e., Heaven) or "High Lord".[12] The Septuagint renders the name as Baalzebub (βααλζεβούβ) and as Baal muian (βααλ μυιαν, "Baal of flies"), but Symmachus the Ebionite may have reflected a tradition of its offensive ancient name when he rendered it as Beelzeboul.[13]
The source for the name Ba‘al Zebûb / Beelzebub is in 2 Kings 1:2-3, 6, 16 where King Ahaziah of Kingdom of Israel (Samaria), after seriously injuring himself in a fall, sends messengers to inquire of Ba‘al Zebûb, the god of the Philistine city of Ekron, to learn if he will recover.
Ahaziah fell through the lattice in his upper chamber at Samaria and was injured. So he sent messengers whom he instructed: "Go inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this injury." (JPS translation)
Elijah the Prophet then condemns Ahaziah to die by Yahweh's words because Ahaziah sought counsel from Ba‘al Zebûb rather than from Yahweh.In Mark 3:22, the Pharisees accuse Jesus of driving out demons by the power of Beelzeboul, prince of demons, the name also appearing in the expanded version in Matthew 12:24,27 and Luke 11:15,18-19. The name also occurs in Matthew 10:25.
Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.─Matthew 12:25-28Pierre
Exactly Pierre.
So is it safe to say that Beelzebub is Satan, the ruler of the demons of whom Jesus spoke?
mikeboll64,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote So you DO understand after all. So where's the problem? Jesus being the "only Lord" does not mean King David, Samuel, and Elijah were "false lords" or "idols", right? So "ONLY" is not to be taken literally but, in your own words, to CLARIFY which Lord is above all the other lords.
No, King David nor samuel nor Elijah were false lords nor idols but nevertheless the only "authority" or title that was given to them came from the One True Lord (who is the only one).
This True Lord has no comparison, has no equal.
He is his own Category. ITs a Emphasis to be called the Lord of Lords.Quote Of course not. Why would Satan BEING a god mean that he had to be MY god?
So Satan has NEVER been your god?
So you have never been in this world or subjected to this age?
Why wouldnt it mean that Satan is your god though he is Called a god?Quote I don't know anything about "RA", but yes, the gods of the Egyptians were real. And powerful too, judging from the fact that they turned their priests staffs into snakes and made frogs appear out of thin air, etc.
Doesnt mean they were gods, they were called false idols, but of course there is a demonic forces that are always there to cause confusion and destruction. seeking to destroy.
But i wouldnt called that, or them a god as you do.Quote See above. Also, tell me what fake idol was powerful enough to delay Daniel's angel for 21 days.
See above, demonic forces do exist. Fake idols are things that men make up that are enforced by Demonic forces. The bible for example is something physical, but the power of the words are beyond whats printed.
Thats why even Israel at one time was cursed and losing a war because someone had an idol hidden away in there stuff, yet Joshua went to go seek that and destroy it.Quote And therein lies the problem, D. Because YOU (and society today), think of "god" as "THE Omniscient Creator of All Things", you are blind to the Biblical use of the word.
I totally understand the biblical definitions of words that MUST be defined by the context. Yet im defining God simply as a "supreme being" equal to God Almighty.
Just how Allah, is not real, or budda, or any other gods that one can think of are not real true God.Quote There can be no such thing as a "God of gods" if there is literally only one God.
OF course there is, the whole emphasis of the Phrase brings out those thoughts. This GOD who is the GOD OF EVERYTHING, is solely the ONLY ONE. Its a emphasis.Quote Really? God says, "Apart from me, there is no god". God also says, "Apart from me, there is no savior". Would you like to discuss the many saviors that God sent and empowered?
Yes God is the only savior! he shares his glory with no OTHER.
Thats the whole point.ok so Lets say that God sends you to preach to a nation in Africa, and everyone turns and repents and are conformed to the image of the Son based on the message that you delivered to them.
Who is the savior, You or God?
Quote Get it? God doesn't mean He is the only savior, period. He means that no one else could save anyone from anything if not for Him. If there is not LITERALLY only one Lord, and not LITERALLY only one savior, then you are blind to think there is LITERALLY only one god, when the phrase "God OF gods" prohibits your conclusion.
Of course mike, but your meaning it to say there are many saviors just LIKE GOD. which isnt true.
there is no other God but God,
there is no other savoir but God,
there is no other Lord but God,Quote YHWH. Why, do you have doubts about which God is refered to here?
based on your definition on God.
How would you know to whom things refer too based on your irresponsible defintion on terms.
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