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Hi Dennison,
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you?
"Son of God" as in Son of the HolySpirit (Luke 1:35): making Jesus lineage 1/2 God.
"Son of Man" as in the Son of Mary (Mark 6:3): making Jesus lineage 1/2 Human.
Sorry for not being specific enough.
I REPEAT: What does "Son of God" mean to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,19:46) Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2011,06:26) I have no idea why you believe Jesus is called God as Jahovah is God in scripture.
Hi KerwinBecause the reality is Jesus currently rules supreme over all for "all authority and power", including all judgment is in his hands!
Unlike satan who is called the god of this world and who appears as an angel of light and usurps power over those who do not believe in Jesus,
Jesus is the "God" of all creation who sits in the throne of God ruling as God.
It is obvious satan is not "a god" at all but only rules by deception because he has no power over the believers.
Context clearly tells us that Jesus is our Lord and God. John 20:28, Titus 2:13,14
WJ
Worshipping Jesus,Scripture calls Satan a god of this world as he serves that role as the gods of other nations serve a same roll in regards to their respective nations. He is not worthy of worship. Steven calls the gods of other nations, members of the heavenly hosts.
Quote Acts 7 (Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 41`And they made a calf in those days, and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands,
42and God did turn, and did give them up to do service to the host of the heaven, according as it hath been written in the scroll of the prophets: Slain beasts and sacrifices did ye offer to Me forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel?
43and ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan — the figures that ye made to bow before them, and I will remove your dwelling beyond Babylon.
Jesus does not have authority over God, 1 Corinthians 15:27.
Quote 1 Corinthians 15:27(Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 27for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
As for John 20:28 and Titus 2:13, Jesus does reveal God.
Quote John 14 (Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 8Philip saith to him, `Sir, shew to us the Father, and it is enough for us;'
9Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father?
10Believest thou not that I [am] in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works;
Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2011,21:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,19:46) Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2011,06:26) I have no idea why you believe Jesus is called God as Jahovah is God in scripture.
Hi KerwinBecause the reality is Jesus currently rules supreme over all for "all authority and power", including all judgment is in his hands!
Unlike satan who is called the god of this world and who appears as an angel of light and usurps power over those who do not believe in Jesus,
Jesus is the "God" of all creation who sits in the throne of God ruling as God.
It is obvious satan is not "a god" at all but only rules by deception because he has no power over the believers.
Context clearly tells us that Jesus is our Lord and God. John 20:28, Titus 2:13,14
WJ
Worshipping Jesus,Scripture calls Satan a god of this world as he serves that role as the gods of other nations serve a same roll in regards to their respective nations. He is not worthy of worship. Steven calls the gods of other nations, members of the heavenly hosts.
Quote Acts 7 (Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 41`And they made a calf in those days, and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands,
42and God did turn, and did give them up to do service to the host of the heaven, according as it hath been written in the scroll of the prophets: Slain beasts and sacrifices did ye offer to Me forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel?
43and ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan — the figures that ye made to bow before them, and I will remove your dwelling beyond Babylon.
Jesus does not have authority over God, 1 Corinthians 15:27.
Quote 1 Corinthians 15:27(Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 27for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
As for John 20:28 and Titus 2:13, Jesus does reveal God.
Quote John 14 (Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 8Philip saith to him, `Sir, shew to us the Father, and it is enough for us;'
9Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father?
10Believest thou not that I [am] in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works;
'Jehovah'/'YHVH' is HEBREW for 'I Am'.This can only be used as the name for God Almighty, the everlasting and 'One and Only True God' as 'I Am' means:
'He who always was, always is, and always will be'
And we know that Jesus gave up his position at one time.
And we know that Jesus was a Man at one point.
And we know that Jesus was subject to sin as Man.
And we know that Jesus relied on his Father for all that he did.
And we know that Jesus is called the SON OF GOD meaning he came from God – therefore was not Always existing.
And we know that Jesus took on the Sins of mankind at one time.
And we know that Jesus DIED at one time for the Sake of that Sin.
And we know that he was raised again by the SPIRIT OF GOD (Note: not by 'His Spirit' but the Spirit of the Father – who IS God: The Spirit of God)
And we know that the Father GAVE Jesus power and authority – to rue for a period of time.
And we know that Jesus will HAND that power BACK to his Father when all is accomplish.So, which of the above 'We know's is an attribute of God Almighty?
Can God be removed from his own position?
Can God become Man?
Can God take on Sin? (And God CANNOT LIE NOR BE TEMPTED)
Can God Die?
Can God be GIVEN power and Authority (God Owns All power and Authority)
Can God give his power and authority BACK to anyone (To Whom?)See, who is GOD?
Trinitarians define God as three in one. Three entities in one being.
But each is INDEPENDENT? Each has a separate 'Status' and has separate attributes!!
How ridiculous…!If each IS GOD then each has ALL the attributes of GOD.
But:
The Holy Spirit never speaks of it's own accord!
The Son can become MAN/Flesh – and become Sinful – what?
The Son can Die – wwwhhhaattt!!! God cannot die? How?
The Holy Spirit is 'passed' from one 'part' of 'God' to another???
The Father is the 'Master' of both the Son AND the Spirit (….Of the Holy Spirit / ….of the Son)
The Father OWNS ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY – the SON does not – and no mention is made concerning the Holy Spirit.The Apostles send greetings in the name of the FATHER and the SON – ONLY… why do they not send greetings from GOD ALONE so as to include the HOLY SPIRIT??? no, Greetings from "God the Father" and from the Lord Jesus Christ!
Jesus is mentioned as being 'Lord' – not 'God' – only the father is called 'God' – and no mention of the Holy Spirit at all – strange? You bet?
But not really – for if ONLY God is God, if Only the Father is God, then it is right that that ONLY the Father IS addressed as GOD.
Jesus, being subservient to his Father (As even Trinies allude to in the 'Heirachial three in one God') is rightly called 'Lord' – for 'God' is higher than 'Lord'.
And as to the Holy Spirit: it is 'Of God' – and 'God' is the Father.God – The Father
|
Of
|
/ \
/ \
The The
Son Holy SpiritIs it intriguing how Trinitarians never address the point that the FATHER is the OWNER of the HOLY SPIRIT.
How the HOLY SPIRIT is 'Of the Father' and 'Of God'
But never 'Of the Son' but only 'FROM the Son' AFTER it is GIVEN to him FROM the Father.
(I will send you another FROM the Father – but it will not speak of itself but TAKE of what is mine – for the FATHER has GIVEN me ALL THINGS)So, the Father is the owner of ALL THINGS including the HOLY SPIRIT – and the Son partakes of that ALL – including the HOLY SPIRIT.
How then is the HOLY SPIRIT an autonomous one third part 'God' (Oh, there are no 'parts' to God are there – they are all at one and the same time the One SAME GOD but yet NOT for they are all heirachially different and yet are EQUALLY GOD yet NOT EQUAL – all at the same time -!!!)
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:08) Mike tried to used a shady tactic to try to excuse the mention of Jesus as God Almighty by stating that he is "one of many gods". We wont let him make that excuse.
Yes, Mike has tried to use the very teachings of scripture as a "shady tactic"!
And I agree that you will try your best to not let me use the scriptures for my understanding, because by doing so, I WON'T EVER come up with the assinine notion that the Son OF God Almighty is the very God Almighty that he is the Son OF.
D, WHO exactly is "God Almighty"? If you say "God Almighty" is the Father AND the Son together, then WHO exactly is the Son OF "God Almighty"?
Is Jesus his own Son? Is he really the GRANDSON of God the Father and the SON of "God the Son"?
We have all been given the right to become SONS of God and BROTHERS of Jesus Christ. How does THAT fit into your craziness? Will we become both sons AND brothers to God Almighty?
Will YOU become a BROTHER of God Almighty, D?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,06:59) Paul said there are "no gods but one", his language cannot be any more clear.
Paul said there are MANY gods, both in heaven and on earth. And when he spoke of there being "no God but one" FOR US, he clearly told us WHO that "one God" was – THE FATHER.His language could not be any more clear, Keith.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,07:46) Jesus is the "God" of all creation who sits in the throne of God ruling as God.
No, Jesus is the Son OF "the God of all creation", who sits AT THE RIGHT HAND of God Almighty.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,07:46) It is obvious satan is not "a god" at all but only rules by deception because he has no power over the believers.
Satan IS a god, because Paul clearly said he was. Paul did NOT say "false god", did he? He was also the god of Ekron, who many people worshipped. The god that even the king of Israel sent to inquire of.Jesus also told us to pray that we would NOT be tempted by him, for he DOES indeed have the power to tempt us and lead us into wickedness, like he tried to do with Jesus.
Do you understand this, Keith? Satan could not have offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world if they were not HIS to give. He truly IS the god of this world for the time being. He truly DOES have much power over the affairs of humans, which is why the angel said, "But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”
We cannot resist or defeat him on our own, which is why we pray for God Almighty to deliver us from the wicked one. Job was truly a believer, yet Satan did MUCH damage to him and his family. So you are pulling the wool over your own eyes by pretending Satan has no power over you. Our only defense is to pray to God Almighty for the strength to overcome the temptations Satan is very capable of putting on us. It was through strength from and faith in God that Jesus overcame the Devil's temptations in the wilderness. And it will be through that same strength from and faith in our God that WE can overcome Satan's advances.
The problem with you and D is that in order for you to make Jesus be God Almighty Himself, you must imagine that Paul spoke of "false gods" when he didn't. You must imagine that Satan is a "false god" when it is very clear that he is not. In other words, in order to support your doctrine, you guys must add words and implications into the scriptures that aren't even there.
Try taking the words of scripture as they are for once, and you'll come to a much different understanding………….the correct one.
Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2011,17:46) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 06 2011,03:21) Pierre, You should re-read what im sayin because right now your making yourself sound ignorant.
Im the Son of my Father, and im still HUMAN.
Jesus is the Son of God, and he is? what?
Hi Dennison,Jesus is also the son of his mother, and she is?
what?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Touche' Ed!Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2011,00:43) Hi D, So you disagree with Tertullian's common sense understanding that He who makes is one, and he through whom the thing is made is another?
It is for this point that I brought up Tertullian in the first place, and you've not commented on this part of his writing.
Hi Mike,
Im telling you that Tertullians a deluded. 
I can see that from your own deluded mind, someone who makes a perfectly common-sense statement like the one Tertullian made must be "deluded".
Let those words ring in your head for a while, D. Maybe they'll clear out the cobwebs.
HE WHO MAKES IS ONE, AND HE THROUGH WHOM THE THING IS MADE IS ANOTHER.
Now add those common-sense words to the prayer in Acts 4. In that prayer, you'll notice that Jesus is listed as someone OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO the God who created the heavens, the earth, and EVERYTHING in them. And by being listed as someone OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO that One, he is simultaneously listed as one OF the "EVERYTHING in them" that was created BY that One.
Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2011,04:35) Steven calls the gods of other nations, members of the heavenly hosts.
But God turned away from them and gave them over to worship the hosts of heaven,Thank you for that one, Kerwin!
It is another clear instance of gods being worshipped who are neither God Almighty nor "idols".Quote (Istari @ June 18 2011,08:41) If each IS GOD then each has ALL the attributes of GOD.
Good point.Paul says that since Jesus died and was raised, death NO LONGER has mastery over him. When did death EVER have mastery over God Almighty?
Hi Dennison,
What makes you think I don't believe (according to SF) in preexistence?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2011,23:42) Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2011,04:35) Steven calls the gods of other nations, members of the heavenly hosts.
But God turned away from them and gave them over to worship the hosts of heaven,Thank you for that one, Kerwin!
It is another clear instance of gods being worshipped who are neither God Almighty nor "idols".
Idols are images of the god they represent just like Jesus and the angels of God are.Quote Exodus 20(Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 3`Thou hast no other Gods before Me.
4`Thou dost not make to thyself a graven image, or any likeness which [is] in the heavens above, or which [is] in the earth beneath, or which [is] in the waters under the earth.
5Thou dost not bow thyself to them, nor serve them: for I, Jehovah thy God, [am] a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third [generation], and on the fourth, of those hating Me,
6and doing kindness to thousands, of those loving Me and keeping My commands.
At times images are called by the what they represent.
Quote Genesis 31:19(Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 19And Laban hath gone to shear his flock, and Rachel stealeth the teraphim which her father hath;
You can also find places where angels are referred to as Jehovah. It appears to be a manner of speech. It can also explain why Jesus called Peter Satan when the devil tricked that apostle into representing him.
Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2011,09:53) Idols are images of the god they represent just like Jesus and the angels of God are.
Sometimes they are. Other times, the idol itself IS the god. The man imagines it, designs it, and fashions it out of wood, stone, and/or metal………….then worships it.This is true in the case of the golden calf. The Israelites had no reason to think Jehovah was a calf, and therefore no reason to fashion a calf to represent him. Therefore the calf was not an image of the God it was made to represent.
Still other times, the gods they worshipped were real, as in the case of Satan, the god of Ekron.
Satan was also a "host of heaven", so who's to say other REAL "hosts of heaven" were not also worshipped?
What your scripture does for me is show that since the "hosts of heaven", or angels, ARE real, then many REAL beings have been worshipped as gods – not just Satan. And that fits right in with Paul saying, "there are many gods and many lords, whether IN HEAVEN, or on the earth…….."
peace,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ June 19 2011,09:53) You can also find places where angels are referred to as Jehovah. It appears to be a manner of speech. It can also explain why Jesus called Peter Satan when the devil tricked that apostle into representing him.
Yes, many times the vice regent OF Jehovah was called "Jehovah" or "God".But when Jesus called Peter "Satan", I believe it was only a play on words. For example, if you started being verbally abusive to me all of a sudden, I could say, "What brought this on, Istari?" to YOU.
All
today some religion are cleverly pointing out that the statue they pray too ,is only a symbol of the reality and so make you feel it is ok to worship that representation,the cross is one of them and Mary,Joseph,and ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;to long of a list
those are idols,and so those who worship trough them are idol worshipers.Pierre
Hi Pierre,
That doesn't just go for Mary, the cross, and the Saints, etc, but for Jesus himself. God said that no one has seen His form, so don't worship ANYTHING with a form, whether it be celestial bodies or the form of a human.
Jesus most definitely had a form, right?
Add that to the fact we are not to worship the creation, but ONLY the Creator (as in singular). And Jesus was the firstborn OF every creature, making him a creature himself.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 20 2011,03:45) Hi Pierre, That doesn't just go for Mary, the cross, and the Saints, etc, but for Jesus himself. God said that no one has seen His form, so don't worship ANYTHING with a form, whether it be celestial bodies or the form of a human.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,Do you know where that can be found?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 20 2011,10:45) Hi Pierre, That doesn't just go for Mary, the cross, and the Saints, etc, but for Jesus himself. God said that no one has seen His form, so don't worship ANYTHING with a form, whether it be celestial bodies or the form of a human.
Jesus most definitely had a form, right?
Add that to the fact we are not to worship the creation, but ONLY the Creator (as in singular). And Jesus was the firstborn OF every creature, making him a creature himself.
peace,
mike
Mike Quote (Ed J @ June 19 2011,11:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 20 2011,03:45) Hi Pierre, That doesn't just go for Mary, the cross, and the Saints, etc, but for Jesus himself. God said that no one has seen His form, so don't worship ANYTHING with a form, whether it be celestial bodies or the form of a human.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,Do you know where that can be found?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,Didn't I just read where you said you could help US to find where certain scriptures are?
(Just kidding, only my little sister can tell you where every scripture is all the time! )You can find it in Deut 4, starting with verse 15.
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