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Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 02 2009,08:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 01 2009,05:17) Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 30 2009,16:39) bodhitharta,
And how long does that punishment last?
I would like to say forever but I am still researching that as it may be imposed in various degrees including forever. I will study it a little more and give an opinion(with scriptures backing up the findings, I will be using both sources that I use) Get back to you soon.Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 02 2009,05:57) Hell, no matter where it would be or what metaphor is used about it still exists and is described of as a punishment and not a perception. Of course you must also understand as you have said previously there is great evil and pain in the world today this does not stem from perceptions but actions of men, when someone is being tortured, raped or killed it is not their perception of such it is happening.
Likewise, this shows that actual punishment is compatible with actual evil being no less than a perception and to occur in reality.
So, separation is not the issue because it is a casting out of one condition into another condition. Imagine being placed on one of the planets in the body you are now in it would be hell and if you were not allowed to die it would stay hell but it would not be God that inflicted this upon you it would be your own wronging of your own soul
Hi BD,How does this ‘evil person’ get to your(never ending) torture planet?
It seems your imagination is leading your words instead of the HolySpirit.
I suggest you get your information from God’s Word instead of from men;
they seem to be just confusing you(Babylon) more and more.Rev.14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image,
and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,
which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone
in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb(Not some torture world BD):
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night,
who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of the Living God. (Matt.16:18)
The torment stops when they stop worshipping the beast(this includes you BD) and image;
once a person becomes a “Christian” they are plucked out of the never ending fire.
Zech.3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD
that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this [Christian] brand plucked out of the fire?Why do you continue to peddle such garbage?
ED,Do you know what a metaphor is?
I said "IMAGINE"
Stop misquoting:
Zechariah 3
1And he sheweth me Joshua the high priest standing before the messenger of Jehovah, and the Adversary standing at his right hand, to be an adversary to him.2And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary: `Jehovah doth push against thee, O Adversary, Yea, push against thee doth Jehovah, Who is fixing on Jerusalem, Is not this a brand delivered from fire?'
Stop inserting:
You are not the witness of God, you have not even represented the scriptures properly. You are a witness of your own cunning and invention
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 01 2009,21:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 01 2009,05:17) Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 30 2009,16:39) bodhitharta,
And how long does that punishment last?
I would like to say forever but I am still researching that as it may be imposed in various degrees including forever. I will study it a little more and give an opinion(with scriptures backing up the findings, I will be using both sources that I use) Get back to you soon.
According to scripture, the wicked shall be destroyed. They will perish.John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.2 Corinthians 4:3
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.2 Thessalonians 2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:9-11This is not to disagree with your position T8 because I don't have enough information to totally disagree with you but for sure Hell in this regard is a place of torment and not anihilation as it happens day and night forever and evr
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 02 2009,09:00) You are not the witness of God, you have not even represented the scriptures properly. You are a witness of your own cunning and invention
1John 2:22 Who is a liar(guess who) but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father(HolySpirit) and the Son(Jesus Christ).Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 02 2009,14:17) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 02 2009,09:00) You are not the witness of God, you have not even represented the scriptures properly. You are a witness of your own cunning and invention
1John 2:22 Who is a liar(guess who) but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father(HolySpirit) and the Son(Jesus Christ).
Jesus is The Christ, so how did I lie? If you were the "witness" of God you would at least have known that I have posted hundreds of times that Jesus is The Christ.Show how you are a witness of God, Edward.
I really mean it, because if it's true I want to support you but you lack knowledge of the scriptures and knowledge of God.
Who is your Lord?
Hi,
Any quotes from a book of man can only expose it's lack of life.
The words of Jesus are Spirit and life.Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 02 2009,05:57) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 01 2009,21:35) Hey Bod: Where is Hell? We know when Jesus used the word ghenna it was talking about the trash dump outside Jerusalem. He was using it as a mental/spiritual picture of what it would be like to be separated from God! Do you believe God is everywhere? If you agree that God is everywhere then there is no place that he is not! He is in everyone and everything. You cannot separate yourself from God if you believe he is everywhere.
If Hell is a place where God is not, then it does not exist. There is no Hell in heaven. There is only heaven and earth! Heaven is God or where God is. God is also inside every human being. This is the good news from Jesus that we either believe or we don't believe. If we
believe, we experience life/God, if we don't believe, we experience the illusion of death/sin/or separation from God. It has to be an illusion of separation because it is not of the truth. There is no sin or separation from God, he is everywhere. We either believe it or we don't.
Now the mind is powerful and a person becomes what he believes God says he is. If he believes God says he is a sinner then that is what is truth to him. Its is not the truth. Yet it is truth to him. That is what I call illusion. A belief that seems real but is not of Truth. IMO, TK
For God to be everywhere does not mean he is in everything God is not His creation, His creation is a Sign He is the Reality.Hell, no matter where it would be or what metaphor is used about it still exists and is described of as a punishment and not a perception.
Of course you must also understand as you have said previously there is great evil and pain in the world today this does not stem from perceptions but actions of men, when someone is being tortured, raped or killed it is not their perception of such it is happening.
Likewise, this shows that actual punishment is compatible with actual evil being no less than a perception and to occur in reality.
So, separation is not the issue because it is a casting out of one condition into another condition. Imagine being placed on one of the planets in the body you are now in it would be hell and if you were not allowed to die it would stay hell but it would not be God that inflicted this upon you it would be your own wronging of your own soul.
Hey Bod: What I am saying is you don't have to go to another planet to live in metaphoric hell. But the metaphoric hell is now, here on this planet for anyone who doesn't hold fast to the belief in their perfection provided by Jesus/truth!Temptation is to disbelieve the truth. A challange against the faith. Temptation to disbelieve ones purification in Christ. Temptation to believe that what they do or don't do joins them to God or separates them from God.
Temptation to believe they are sinners and in sin which separates them from the life and good of God.
The great evil and pain you refer to in this world came from incorrect perceptions of Adam and on down the line. Believing comes first then physical creation.
One would have to believe evil and therby create evil in his physical life.
Now Jesus has taught us that if we believe in our purification from sin/error and believe in good only and love et.al. then we will create that in our lives, here, and now!
Belief is always first in the mind then manifestation physically.
If we see (understand) the truth in us we will experience the goodness we hold within. This is the Kingdom of God working within us.
The reason that there is no sin in God is God cannot dwell or think in sin. God is good only in him is no darkness or evil. Therefore he can only create the good that he is.
Man may choose to believe in evil and bad and hurt and sin and thereby create those things in his life. If man errantly believes in an opposite to God/good, then he must face the incorrect creation(sin) he has chosen to believe.
There is no opposite to God. God is absolute, all encompassing, all in all. One has to believe he is outside of God and believe he is a partaker of evil, darkness, and weeping and gnashing of teeth to forsake his salvation. Bless you, TK
To all: I can't emphasize enough. We are sons of the living God. We have the Christ within. We are creators like our Father in heaven. What we perceive and believe will be experienced in this life. If we follow our father God and his nature of love, good, kindness etc. IN THE MIND FIRST and then it will be produced in this physical world. A creator dreams the creation first then sees to its manifestation. What we choose to believe about sin affects our lives. If we believe our salvation from sin and all its byproducts then we live a purified life here on this planet with God and Jesus within us. If one continues to believe he is in sin or is a sinner he has nullified his purification and chosen a path of degradation and destruction. Its our choice!! Bless all, TK
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 03 2009,04:56) Hi TK,
But is it true?
Hey Nick: Only if you believe the Bible!!! TKQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 02 2009,16:08) Who is your Lord?
Hi BD,Your question ‘who is your Lord’ provides NO clarity.
LORD: in the Old “Testament” refers to YHVH called in English God=26.
Lord: in the New “Testament” refers to YÄ-shü-a called the Christ.What you offer is confusion?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 03 2009,08:38) Hi TK,
Does the bible say you become what you believe or is that your idea?
Nick: The Bible says that whosoever believes what God says through Jesus has found the truth. If Jesus says my words are spirit and they are life, then that is the truth.The Bible says that whosoever believeth in Jesus shall not perish but have eternal life. But you can't believe in life/Jesus at the same time as believing in evil/death.
If Jesus says the Kingdom of God is within you then it is the truth. No need to look further for the Kingdom to come. Jesus said the Kingdom would not come with sign to observe.
Whatever Jesus says I believe. If Jesus says that he and the father are one then so it is.
If Jesus says that he and the father will make their abode in us then that is the end of the discussion for me. They reside within.
If God and Jesus and the spirit (which is God) dwell within us then they are not out somewhere or over there or over here. They are within us always.
You know this is what I believe but you ask so I re-wrote. God Bless you, TK
Years ago and also true today, people all followed other Gods. Rather than the one God. Christians developed idols of stone and carvings and started worshipping a man with long hair! Hindus etc also had statues. So Mohammad turned a people back to the one God. That is why in a mosque there is no images. They also believe Jesus was the Messiah, and that Jesus will return .
It really seems to me from observation, that theres 2 different groups of Christians in the world. Theres the Pro Isreal anti Arab Christians, and then theres the Love thy neighbour Christians. I found the majority of love thy neighbours are Anglicans or Catholics or Orthodox. I think Jesus taught the love thy neighbour too.
Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 03 2009,21:48) Years ago and also true today, people all followed other Gods. Rather than the one God. Christians developed idols of stone and carvings and started worshipping a man with long hair! Hindus etc also had statues. So Mohammad turned a people back to the one God. That is why in a mosque there is no images. They also believe Jesus was the Messiah, and that Jesus will return . It really seems to me from observation, that theres 2 different groups of Christians in the world. Theres the Pro Isreal anti Arab Christians, and then theres the Love thy neighbour Christians. I found the majority of love thy neighbours are Anglicans or Catholics or Orthodox. I think Jesus taught the love thy neighbour too.
Hi Karmarie,Your words are full of double talk. It is obvious from you words that you are anti Israel.
Based on BD’s comments on this forum, he believes the bible (falsely) to be corrupted;
and I’m guessing you share in this belief. Yet he continually uses it to propagate his own beliefs.Catholics teach a doctrine called “The Trinity” which most Arabs call adding gods to God.
On the one hand you say “they” are the ones that show love, and on the other hand
you are taught to kill “them” for their belief in it. Where do you really stand on this issue?There is nobody here against Arabs; we are only false doctrines, hypocrisy and a lying tongue.
You site Jesus as “The Messiah”, but is this what you really believe? Trying to drive Christians
into two camps shows your bigotry towards believers in the one true God, YHVH.Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 04 2009,05:18) Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 03 2009,21:48) Years ago and also true today, people all followed other Gods. Rather than the one God. Christians developed idols of stone and carvings and started worshipping a man with long hair! Hindus etc also had statues. So Mohammad turned a people back to the one God. That is why in a mosque there is no images. They also believe Jesus was the Messiah, and that Jesus will return . It really seems to me from observation, that theres 2 different groups of Christians in the world. Theres the Pro Isreal anti Arab Christians, and then theres the Love thy neighbour Christians. I found the majority of love thy neighbours are Anglicans or Catholics or Orthodox. I think Jesus taught the love thy neighbour too.
Hi Karmarie,Your words are full of double talk. It is obvious from you words that you are anti Israel.
Based on BD’s comments on this forum, he believes the bible (falsely) to be corrupted;
and I’m guessing you share in this belief. Yet he continually uses it to propagate his own beliefs.Catholics teach a doctrine called “The Trinity” which most Arabs call adding gods to God.
On the one hand you say “they” are the ones that show love, and on the other hand
you are taught to kill “them” for their belief in it. Where do you really stand on this issue?There is nobody here against Arabs; we are only false doctrines, hypocrisy and a lying tongue.
You site Jesus as “The Messiah”, but is this what you really believe? Trying to drive Christians
into two camps shows your bigotry towards believers in the one true God, YHVH.
HiI had to laugh a bit, I am not anti Isreal, I am anti nothing, I believe in peace and loving thy neighbour. This WAS the mesage that Jesus gave. Sadly for a small percentage of Christianity that message is ignored.
And I follow Jesus. Not Paul. I am not anti Paul at all, only I prefer to follow the religeon of Jesus. It keeps it simple. So I guess that would label me a christian. Iv known Jesus all my life, its the second time iv been asked that question on this forum.
Its pretty obvious that most religeon is corrupt today. Theres possibly no truth anywhere. Jesus said "when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
There are two camps of Christianinty. I saw a documentary yesterday on some Christians who went on a bus tour of Isreal, they prayed, were baptised in Jordan, cried, sang held thier hands up, then when asked about the Arabs they said the Arabs were thier enemies because the Arabs were Gods enemies and the look in thier eyes was so angry.
I dont seem to recall anywhere in Jesus's teachings or Pauls or the other apostles where it mentions the Arabs being Gods enemies, or that we should hate them. Do you?
Then theres the other type of Christian. Spreading the Real message. They are not concerned in what happens over there. They, like Muslims, believe God is the God of everyone, anywhere. Its beutiful! They help, they dont judge, they love, they put others first, thier arms are allways open to anyone.
You ask me do I really believe Jesus is the messiah, yes I do and so do Muslims.
Hi Nick, true, but I just think that banning someone like BD and putting them into the same category as athiests to post in is wrong.
No, that is true,
but ask any Muslim who Allah is, and they will say it is the God who created the heavens and the earth, the God of the same bible,
In the beginning of Christianity, Gnostics formed, from Christianity, they believed the creator God in the old testement was a lesser God not worthy of worship. This is what the new church had to fight against. However Muslims dont fall into that category. They worship the creator God. They use the name Allah as do Christians who speak Arabic. Its just language difference. They also believe Jesus was the promised messiah.
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