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Tigger…..Where it says in scripture “you are gods” that is given in a possessive sense, not that they were truly gods themselves, but that they were GOD’S POSSESIONS . Scriptures show in many places, there is “ONLY” ONE “TRUE” GOD, Therefore all other so-called gods are false gods. GOD HIMSELF SAID HE LOOKED FOR OTHER GODS AND FOUND NONE. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
Ed J
“Hi Tigger,
Do you believe this verse is true?
And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3)
The verse is saying: Eternal life is knowing JEHOVAH and Jesus Christ whom he has sent – do you agree?”
[It is plainly saying that the Father (which many scriptures show is Jehovah/YHWH) is the only true God.]
….
miia
“How can you Know that?
The ‘a’ was not in the original text.
The Holy Spirit does not add the ‘a’.
Man adds the ‘a’.Not wanting to argue about this just giving my opinion.”
[Hi, miia.
Lesson B above explains how translators know when to add the understood “a/an” to a NT Greek count noun. Please read it and get back to me.]
…
Nick Hassan
“Hi Tigger,
SO CALLED gods.
But for US there is one God, the Father.
Are you one of US”
[1 cor. 8:6 – “so-called” is an additiuon to the NT text, see interlinear or KJV.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/8-5.htm]
…
Gene Balthrop
“Tigger…..Where it says in scripture “you are gods” that is given in a possessive sense, not that they were truly gods themselves, but that they were GOD’S POSSESIONS . Scriptures show in many places, there is “ONLY” ONE “TRUE” GOD, Therefore all other so-called gods are false gods. GOD HIMSELF SAID HE LOOKED FOR OTHER GODS AND FOUND NONE. IMO”
[The Greek text of 1 Cor. 8:5 uses the plural nominative case for “gods” (theoi) and is correctly translated as “gods” without an apostrophe. This means that they are themselves gods. If a possessive were intended, the NT Greek word would have been in the singular genitive case (theou) and would have been translated as “god’s” with the apostrophe. –
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/8-5.htm ]
………………..
As I have asked numerous times on various sites:
“Clearly, I believe (know) that John 1:1c is properly translated as “and the Word was a god.”
If you have any questions about the necessity for this translation as carefully examined in the first 5 Lessons (A-E) above, please ask. I suggest you start with the first lesson only (A) and continue with it until any and all questions you may have are answered by me. Then continue on to lesson B, etc.”
Is there no one here (as on all other sites) that will actually examine my study and reply to what I have written in it?
Hi Tigger,
No offense, but I don’t follow the teachings of men, (though I understand the time involved: have done my own web based study but deleted). I’ve heard the same John 1.1 arguments by arians and also some trinitarians who can say “the word was a God”, or “the word was divine”. But, in the end only God has the truth, and it’s him we should go to. And the spirit says “In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God.”Are you or have you ever been a JW? That’s what I’m interested in knowing.
Ed J
“Hi Tigger,
Do you believe this verse is true?
And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3)
The verse is saying: Eternal life is knowing JEHOVAH and Jesus Christ whom he has sent – do you agree?”
[It is plainly saying that the Father (which many scriptures show is Jehovah/YHWH) is the only true God.]
Hi Tigger,
I see that you don’t want to answer the question that I actually asked – that’s fine.
I have highlighted it for you in case you reconsider and actually choose to answer.___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODTigger……If a direct scripture says, “YOU” ARE “ONLY” “TRUE” “GOD”, then common sense says that all other GODS, ARE “FALSE” GODS. It doesent take a greek scholar to understand that.
Besides the use of upper case and lower case lettering it did not even exist in the original greek writtings, that started only about 700-900 years ago. All Greek lettering was in uper case. So there is no lower case little god written in scriptures , only upper case big GOD written in scriptures.
Do you actually think JOHN who know Jesus, was not able to clearly say that the word he was speaking about was ANOTHER GOD NAMED JESUS. GOD AND HIS WORD IS ONE AND THE SAME BEING, JESUS SAID GOD IS A SPIRIT, AND SPIRITS CAN INDWELL MEN, JESUS CLEARLY ALSO SAID OVER AND OVER, THAT GOD THE FATHER WAS “IN” HIM , YOU FAIL TO BELIEVE HIM, BUT THINK THAT JESUS HIMSELF WAS (A) GOD . Jesus recond himself as a SON OF MAN OVER AND OVER ANDSAID THIS , the son of man ca do “nothing” of himself, the father who is “IN” HIM,”HE” does the works.
WHAT YOU ARE PREACHIN IS A PURE FALSE TEACHING, AND PLAYING THE UPPER AND LOWER CASE GAME TRICK WITH THE GREEK WORDING IS JUST A DECEPTIVE PLOY, YOU AS WELL AS THE REST OF ALL TRINITARIAN TEACHERS HAVE FALLEN FOR THE BIGGEST “LIE” EVER DESINGED BY SATAN HIMSELF, ANE THAT IS TO MAKEJ ESUS INTO A GOD. THAT IS EXACLTY WHAT SATAN WANTS PEOPLE TO THINK, BECAUSE THAT FALSE “IMAGE” OF HIM BEING A GOD, TURNS THE “IMAGE’ OF HIM FROM A PURE HUMAN BEING INTO A GOD, MAKING HIS IMAGE INTO A “MAN OF SIN”, 2Ths2.
You cannot decieve those who have the spirit of TRUTH in them, but the ones who do not “LOVE THE TRUTH”, God will send to them a “STRONG DELUSION”, IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BELIEVE A “LIE”, AND THAT “LIE” IS THAT JESUS IS A GOD.
peace and love to you and yours. …………………….gene
I am disappointed that no one here will respond to my actual lessons. That’s all I asked for. I will gladly explain any questions concerning it (starting with Lesson A of course).
***
miia
“…. But, in the end only God has the truth, and it’s him we should go to. And the spirit says “In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God.”
Are you or have you ever been a JW? That’s what I’m interested in knowing.”
[In the end only men have translated the NT Greek text into English according to their own knowledge and prejudice. The original NT Greek is what was inspired by God and it is that which we should do our utmost to honestly translate into English in spite of personal beliefs and traditions. And that is what I have done to the best of my abilities (and that of noted Trinitarian NT Grammars) with John 1:1c.
I believe that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and the Christ of God. I also believe that the original texts of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired word of God. I see no reason to launch into any off-track discussion about sects or organizations any of us belong to.
If you really want to answer my original posts (esp. Lessons A-E) here, it would be greatly appreciated if you would actually do so. Starting with questions or criticisms of Lesson A would be a wonderful start.]
***
Ed J:
Hi Tigger,
I see that you don’t want to answer the question that I actually asked – that’s fine.
I have highlighted it for you in case you reconsider and actually choose to answer.***
Gene Balthrop:
“….WHAT YOU ARE PREACHIN IS A PURE FALSE TEACHING, AND PLAYING THE UPPER AND LOWER CASE GAME TRICK WITH THE GREEK WORDING IS JUST A DECEPTIVE PLOY, YOU AS WELL AS THE REST OF ALL TRINITARIAN TEACHERS HAVE FALLEN FOR THE BIGGEST “LIE” EVER DESINGED BY SATAN HIMSELF, ANE THAT IS TO MAKEJ ESUS INTO A GOD. ….
“You cannot decieve those who have the spirit of TRUTH in them, but the ones who do not “LOVE THE TRUTH”, God will send to them a “STRONG DELUSION”, IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BELIEVE A “LIE”, AND THAT “LIE” IS THAT JESUS IS A GOD.”
[If you would actually spend some time reading my lessons, you would find that I am far from a Trinitarian!! You would also understand why “a god” is the proper translation for John 1:1c and what “a god” means in scripture.
In English translation the capital ‘G’ in ‘God’ shows that this is the only true God, the Almighty, Most High YHWH alone. Any other translation of theos into English which refers to another person (whether evil or godly) will be translated as ‘god’ with the lower case ‘g.’
You say “You cannot decieve those who have the spirit of TRUTH in them” and yet you were clearly deceived in your belief that ‘gods’ in John 10:34 (“you are gods”) means that ‘gods’ is possessive and shows that they BELONG TO God. A study of English and of NT Greek both show that to be false as shown in my last post. (I erroneously ascribed your quote of “you are gods” to 1 Cor. 8:5 in my last post. It would be very helpful if everyone here would give the source of their quotes.)
The Spirit of Truth seems to depend on some actual study. As Prov. 2:4, 5 tells us : “if you seek her [wisdom and understanding] as silver, and search for her as hidden treasures; then you shall understand the fear of Jehovah, and FIND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.” – The Interlinear Bible.]
***
Is there really no one here who will ask questions, analyze, or criticize my actual study (A-E, starting with A, of course) and forgo the off-subject comments?
I don’t see how you can infer that I “don’t want to answer the question.” I assumed you were asking if the Father is also named Jehovah – which I answered. As for it meaning eternal life to gain this knowledge of the Father and his Christ, of course I believe that. That is what the scripture clearly says. – reply to Ed J which didn’t post above.
tigger2,
I hope to examine John 1:1c to show that the very grammar used by John himself shows the actual intended meaning (whether ‘the Word was God,” or the “Word was a god”).
That is a technical question but the answer is irrelevant. The unwritten context is that John, a Jew, is a strict monotheist and so does not believe there is more than one deity. The Koine Greek word “theos” like many words has multiple definitions as does the English word “was”. If an interpretation uses a definition to prove there is more than one God or start a new teaching then their teaching is false.
If “the Word was a god” is used then it is a personification of the Word of God and if “the word was God” then the quality of the word is God.
As for it meaning eternal life to gain this knowledge of the Father and his Christ, of course I believe that. That is what the scripture clearly says
hi Tigger. i don’t know if that was just an error (or the question you were answering EdJ), but scripture doesn’t actually say that eternal life is gaining knowledge of the only true God and Jesus Christ. it says it is to know them. big difference. anyone can know about the Father and Son, but knowing them is different.
the NWT wrongly translates it as:
“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”other versions translate it as:
New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.English Standard Version
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.American King James Version
And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.still am curious if you are or have been a JW. you don’t want to answer so that’s fine.
Is there really no one here who will ask questions, analyze, or criticize my actual study (A-E, starting with A, of course)
hi Tigger. reader fatigue is common on the net these days. i can’t sit at a computer for long. perhaps someone else will.
Kerwin: “The unwritten context is that John, a Jew, is a strict monotheist and so does not believe there is more than one deity. The Koine Greek word “theos” like many words has multiple definitions as does the English word “was”. If an interpretation uses a definition to prove there is more than one God or start a new teaching then their teaching is false.”
[Yes, John would not have accepted the idea that there was anyone equal to the one Jewish Most High God, YHWH. However, that does not disallow the term for a god (theos) being used for false gods AND for God-appointed gods. If you would only actually read Lesson B, at least, you would find proof for this. John himself uses this concept more than any NT writer.]
***
Miia: “….scripture doesn’t actually say that eternal life is <i>gaining knowledge</i> of the only true God and Jesus Christ. it says it is <i>to know</i> them”
T2 answer: A noted TRINITARIAN scholar of NT Greek writes:
“The differences between ‘ginosko’ [Jn 17:3] and ‘oida’ [2 Thess. 1:8] demand consideration: (a) ‘ginosko’ frequently suggests inception or PROGRESS in knowledge, while ‘oida’ suggests fulness of knowledge, e.g., John 8:55,
Ye have not known him' (‘ginosko’), i.e., BEGUN to know,but I know Him’ (‘oida’), i.e.know Him perfectly;' [John] 13:7,What I do thou knowest not now,’ i.e. Peter did not yet [fully, completely] perceive (‘oida’) its significance,but thou shalt understand,' i.e.,get to know (‘ginosko’), hereafter'”. – p. 628, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, W. E. Vine, Thomas Nelson, Inc. [Words in brackets and capitalized emphasis added.]But, much more important, NO ONE HERE IS WILLING TO DISCUSS WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN IN MY LESSONS CONCERNING JOHN 1:1c
miia: “hi Tigger. reader fatigue is common on the net these days. i can’t sit at a computer for long. perhaps someone else will.”
I understand reader fatigue, believe me.
But each lesson is relatively short, and taken one at a time are not that intimidating. One could print out lesson A and read it at leisure. But no one seems to be willing to even read just the first portion of lesson A and get back to me with a reasoned response.
In regards to Lesson a, I find what you wrote very interesting but I have come to see John 1:1 as taken out of context by most readers as far as believers equating John 1:1 with Genesis 1:1, I see John as using the language poetically and not as a historical statement but linking the two poetically has been very effective but throughout John’s writings he repeats this phrase in much more obviously poetic ways. It is my current opinion that John 1:1 is referring to “the beginning of the Gospel” not the beginning of Creation
John tends from waver to glimmers of creation to current things, such as the Word became flesh which would of course be not at the beginning but then saying all things were made through the Word….this is all rather esoteric and not at all practical as Luke writes
tigger,
I have actually into the issue and those God calls god bear his likeness in true holiness and righteousness or are credited with bearing that likeness.
John speaks to his audience, whom I believe are Hellenized Jews, since Philo of Alexandria spoke in a similar way. The later literally personalized the Word of God. I believe he even called it an arch angel. He did not believe it was a person though some accused of him of claiming that.
It sounds like you are one of those that believe Jesus is an angel and so read that unwritten context into John 1.1c.
Hi Tigger,
Since John 1:1 interests you I will comment on it if you want.
I’m interested in personal interactions, not in lessons.Lessons implies that you are the teacher,
but that might not be the case._____________
God bless
Ed JEd J wrote:
“Hi Tigger,
“Since John 1:1 interests you I will comment on it if you want.
I’m interested in personal interactions, not in lessons.”[Since this discussion is supposed to be about the first 7 (or 5) posts here, perhaps you should start a new discussion if you don’t want to discuss them.]
Since this discussion is supposed to be about the first 7 (or 5) posts here
Hi Tigger,
Perhaps you already have your mind made up.
If so, then sorry for my intrusion into this thread,
I though maybe you wanted to discuss the matter.____________
God bless
Ed JSeriously? you can’t allow the person teaching to teach on his own thread?
If you can’t learn how to be a good student you will never be a good teacher…..If his teaching is not cohesive he is inviting you as a STUDENT
to examine his work….Your arrogance is distasteful and quite UGLY.
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