Saul 'paul' of tarsus

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 28 2009,08:01)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2009,05:42) Would you appreciate someone calling the book you wrote that “Book of Garbage”? Hi BD, It wouldn't matter, because We(all us believers) don't worship a book, We worship the Living GOD! 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Turn to the Living GOD, and stop worshiping satan(BD). Ed J

If you don't worship a book, you then agree that other books beside the Bible can lead you to salvation , right?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 28 2009,08:41)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 28 2009,05:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 27 2009,20:16) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 27 2009,13:31) So what some people were twisting was that Jesus had already returned such as the preterist like ED and The Thinker both who have decided that Jesus second coming has already come and gone. Hi BD, You really don't understand “The God”(YHVH) of “The Bible” at all, do you? You should get yourself a Strong's Concordance, and throw away your 'book of garbage'; you might actually learn something about the God we all serve here at [Heaven.net.nz]! Elements, in 2Peter 3:10, should have been translated as “Rudiments”; meaning satan's military command, which is now coming to an end! (Daniel 11:32) “The day of the LORD” has come Just as the Bible declared it would, as a thief in the night, that's why you were caught unawares. (Luke 21:34-35) Isaiah 2:12 For the “day of the LORD” of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: Ed J (Daniel 11:18) What “Book of Garbage”? Would you appreciate someone calling the book you wrote that “Book of Garbage”? I dont think Ed J was calling the book you wrote garbage, i think he meant another one? Ed? (my mums a writter too)

It doesn't matter what book ED was talking about because I am sure whatever book he is calling garbage he has never read.

I don't mind honest opinions but the fact is ED has never read My Book or The Quran therefore he is an assumer and a poser.

he will mis-spell words to make them fit his vision but he will not add actual real data to allow himself to be teached he is another Paul using Craftiness and Guile

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You efforts to turn the words of God against Himself are an exercise in folly and futility.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 28 2009,12:18)

Hi BD, You efforts to turn the words of God against Himself are an exercise in folly and futility.

I know you mean well, but you should really study first and then critisize

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You would teach God how to teach?
Who appointed you a judge of God and His faithful servants?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 28 2009,13:10)

Hi BD, You would teach God how to teach? Who appointed you a judge of God and His faithful servants?

You are behaving mad but not accurate

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Your faith is in another god but you attempt to judge the God of Israel?

[karmarie]

Hi Cp

So, if Paul taught a lie,

What do you believe is the truth?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 28 2009,15:16)

Hi BD, Your faith is in another god but you attempt to judge the God of Israel?

Nick, why do you believe in “gods” I only believe in GOD there is not more than one to believe in.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You are confused .
For us there is one God, the Father, and one lord, Jesus Christ. [1Cor8]

But then you are not one of us.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 28 2009,18:53)

Hi Cp So, if Paul taught a lie, What do you believe is the truth?

Hi KM

I know your question was directed to CP but I would just like to say that Paul taught both the truth and also lied whenever he felt necessary this can be best expressed by this:

1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (King James Version)

21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

This has two effects the message does spread faster but the message is mixed and hence you have so many denominations believing so many different things.

I don't think as far as Paul is concerned it matters what you believe as long as you confess Christ as being sent from God the problem is he did this so well that Christ often became as God to some in-fact a great many, actually Most christians believe that as the Majority of Christians are Catholics or Protestants both who believe Christ to be God

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You are not equipped to judge Paul.
You need the wisdom of the Spirit not man's

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2009,06:33)

Hi BD, You are not equipped to judge Paul. You need the wisdom of the Spirit not man's

Yeah, BD.

Only Nick is qualified to interpret the rantings of Saul of Tarsus.

Stuart

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD: Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar. Love in Christ, Marty For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Romans 3:6-8 I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention. Hi BD: The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying.  He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards. But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more.  Please read this in context. Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.   Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?   Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”   Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)   Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?   Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?   Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.   Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,   Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;   Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]   Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?   Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]   Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)   Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?   Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”   Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!   Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.   Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.   Love in Christ, Marty You ar e completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old Testament The “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1-3 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalm 53:1-3 There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament. He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile. 2 Corinthians 12:15-17 Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says: God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-5 and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant: Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Psalm 51:3-5 Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it Psalm 51 1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. 4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. 6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. 7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. 9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. 14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. 15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. 18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem. 19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

No, no, no. I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said. It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi BD:

This is the Apostle Paul:

Quote

2 Corinthians 4 1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 28 2009,13:25)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2009,06:33) Hi BD, You are not equipped to judge Paul. You need the wisdom of the Spirit not man's Yeah, BD.   Only Nick is qualified to interpret the rantings of Saul of Tarsus. Stuart

Would it be considered in bad taste if I actually found it humorous?

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,05:22)

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 28 2009,18:53) Hi Cp So, if Paul taught a lie, What do you believe is the truth? Hi KM I know your question was directed to CP but I would just like to say that Paul taught both the truth and also lied whenever he felt necessary this can be best expressed by this: 1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (King James Version) 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. This has two effects the message does spread faster but the message is mixed and hence you have so many denominations believing so many different things. I don't think as far as Paul is concerned it matters what you believe as long as you confess Christ as being sent from God the problem is he did this so well that Christ often became as God to some in-fact a great many, actually Most christians believe that as the Majority of Christians are Catholics or Protestants both who believe Christ to be God

Hi Bod

So sort of like mixing in with a crowd of different people , being like them, then teaching them something they didnt know.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,10:10)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD: Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar. Love in Christ, Marty For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Romans 3:6-8 I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention. Hi BD: The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying.  He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards. But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more.  Please read this in context. Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.   Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?   Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”   Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)   Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?   Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?   Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.   Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,   Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;   Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]   Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?   Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]   Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)   Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?   Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”   Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!   Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.   Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.   Love in Christ, Marty You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old Testament The “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1-3 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalm 53:1-3 There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament. He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile. 2 Corinthians 12:15-17 Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says: God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-5 and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant: Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Psalm 51:3-5 Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it Psalm 51 1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. 4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. 6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. 7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. 9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. 14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. 15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. 18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem. 19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar. No, no, no.  I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said.  It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit. Love in Christ, Marty

But God is not the author of confusion and yet you admit

“It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.”

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 29 2009,12:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,05:22) Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 28 2009,18:53) Hi Cp So, if Paul taught a lie, What do you believe is the truth? Hi KM I know your question was directed to CP but I would just like to say that Paul taught both the truth and also lied whenever he felt necessary this can be best expressed by this: 1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (King James Version) 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. This has two effects the message does spread faster but the message is mixed and hence you have so many denominations believing so many different things. I don't think as far as Paul is concerned it matters what you believe as long as you confess Christ as being sent from God the problem is he did this so well that Christ often became as God to some in-fact a great many, actually Most christians believe that as the Majority of Christians are Catholics or Protestants both who believe Christ to be God Hi Bod So sort of like mixing in with a crowd of different people , being like them, then teaching them something they didnt know.

Yes, just like that. Psalm 51 explains Paul's position in total clarity.

Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
1 Thessalonians 4:4-6

But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isaiah 61:5-7

For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Romans 2:23-25

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,14:35)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD: Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar. Love in Christ, Marty For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Romans 3:6-8 I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention. Hi BD: The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying.  He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards. But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more.  Please read this in context. Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.   Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?   Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”   Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)   Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?   Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?   Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.   Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,   Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;   Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]   Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?   Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]   Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)   Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?   Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”   Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!   Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.   Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.   Love in Christ, Marty You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old Testament The “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1-3 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Psalm 53:1-3 There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament. He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile. 2 Corinthians 12:15-17 Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says: God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-5 and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant: Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Psalm 51:3-5 Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it Psalm 51 1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. 4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. 6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. 7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. 9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. 14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. 15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. 18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem. 19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar. No, no, no.  I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said.  It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit. Love in Christ, Marty But God is not the author of confusion and yet you admit “It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.”

Hi BD:

Yes, some things that the Apostle Paul writes are hard to understand, but when I do not understand something, I go to God in prayer and ask Him to give me understanding. I can assure that the Apostle Paul is not a false prophet, but this is what the Apostle Peters says about some of his epistles:

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2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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