Saul 'paul' of tarsus

[NickHassan]

Hi CP,
He is not a deceiver but is not understood by those who do not know the Spirit.[Acts 17]

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (CLIO-PATRA @ Dec. 23 2009,12:06)

Hi WJ …. hmmmm Your quote :For instance all the talk about Paul being a coward when History shows that Paul was beheaded in Jerusalem for his testimony of Jesus just as he had prophesied!   Not correct WJ … Paul if beheaded at all was in Rome – history does say that he was beheaded by Nero … so I guess appealing to Ceasar was not in his best interest … specially as Agrippa said to  Festus says he would have let him go if he (Paul) had not appealed to Ceasar. Acts26:32 Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar. There you go WJ you can't win em all!! If he had not been such a coward and trying to save his own neck … he might have lived even longer being the great deceiver!! It was James the brother of John the son of Zebedee who was beheaded in Jerusalem he was probably the first of the genuine apostles to die a violent death. Would you be so kind as to tell me how to colour code please for the life of me I cannot fathom out how work with these buttons – Blessings all and Shalom.

My Apology!

You are correct, a typo on my part. Paul was beheaded in Rome as a martyr for his testimony of Jesus.

You assume Paul’s appeal to Caesar was because he was a coward. Which makes no sense at all. Paul was a persecutor of the Church and witnessed the stoning of Stephen. He knew what risk he was taking for preaching Jesus since he was the biggest persecutor of the Church. Acts 8:1-4

Paul used his Roman citizenship to further the Gospel, and that was the reason for his appeal to Caesar so that he could bring the Gospel to Rome and to Caesar! Rom 15:16

He arrived in Rome c AD 60 and spent two years under house arrest.[6]

Irenaeus of Lyons believed that Peter and Paul had been the founders of the Church in Rome and had appointed Linus as succeeding bishop.[31] Though not considered a bishop of Rome, Paul is considered highly responsible for bringing Christianity to Rome.

Tradition has said that Paul was beheaded, likely at Tre Fontane Abbey (English: Three Fountains Abbey). By comparison, Peter was crucified upside-down. This account fits with the report from Acts that Paul was a Roman citizen and would have been accorded the more merciful execution.[dubious – discuss] Paul's death is commonly dated to c 60-62[32] or c 62-65,[6] or c 65-67,[33] in any case during the reign of Nero. Source

Quote (CLIO-PATRA @ Dec. 23 2009,12:06)

Not correct WJ … Paul if beheaded at all was in Rome – history does say that he was beheaded by Nero … so I guess appealing to Caesar was not in his best interest … specially as Agrippa said to  Festus says he would have let him go if he (Paul) had not appealed to Caesar. Acts26:32 Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar.

Read on my friend!

And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, “Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him“. Acts 28:30, 31

Paul finished the course and what God had called him to do. His bonds were the means God used to preach the Word all over the then present world. Oh that’s right Jesus had told Paul this would happen!

WJ

PS

To see how to type for colors etc click on the reply button then scroll down and look at the text that has colors or Bold or what ever and that will give you an idea!

[bodhitharta]

Quote (CLIO-PATRA @ Dec. 24 2009,04:06)

Hi WJ …. hmmmm Your quote :For instance all the talk about Paul being a coward when History shows that Paul was beheaded in Jerusalem for his testimony of Jesus just as he had prophesied!   Not correct WJ … Paul if beheaded at all was in Rome – history does say that he was beheaded by Nero … so I guess appealing to Ceasar was not in his best interest … specially as Agrippa said to  Festus says he would have let him go if he (Paul) had not appealed to Ceasar. Acts26:32 Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar. There you go WJ you can't win em all!! If he had not been such a coward and trying to save his own neck … he might have lived even longer being the great deceiver!! It was James the brother of John the son of Zebedee who was beheaded in Jerusalem he was probably the first of the genuine apostles to die a violent death. Would you be so kind as to tell me how to colour code please for the life of me I cannot fathom out how work with these buttons – Blessings all and Shalom.

This is what I have been saying,

Jesus said: And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mark 13:20-22

But they did believe Paul even though Paul says:

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Philippians 1:17-19

But, I do not say that Paul was not doing what he should have done because the Prophecy was set:

They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Deuteronomy 32:20-22

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
Romans 10:18-20

So, it had to be done. and Paul says why:

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Romans 9:2-4

And why would he even say he wished he were accursed to Christ?

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:31-33

In other words Paul feels:

Romans 11:31-33 (King James Version)

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

and now you know:

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:3-5

Paul finally says that his method cannot fail because by speaking of the grace of God even if he do so unrighteously :

Romans 3:3-6 (King James Version)

3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

[NickHassan]

Hi Bd,
Those who hate Christ, despite their pious claims, and hate His godly Spirit hate Paul.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2009,04:33)

Hi CP, He is not a deceiver but is not understood by those who do not know the Spirit.[Acts 17]

This is what I am saying, why do you keep avoiding the truth even when the author admits his own deceit? You will never know the truth unless you accept what the scriptures say and then go from there.

But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17

What does the bible say about Guile, Nick?

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 1 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
9.1 Peter 2:22

Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1 Peter 2:21-23 (in Context) 1 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
10.1 Peter 3:10

For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1 Peter 3:9-11 (in Context) 1 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)
11.Revelation 14:5

And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Revelation 14:4-6 (in Context) Revelation 14 (Whole Chapter)

Question Nick, did Paul use guile? Is Guile deceit?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2009,09:34)

Hi Bd, Those who hate Christ, despite their pious claims, and hate His godly Spirit hate Paul.

Do you mind explaining how the Spirit of Christ shoed Paul to use Guile and Craftiness as confessed by Paul?

[NickHassan]

Hi Bd,
You must be as cunning as serpents….
God wants all to be saved and is more tolerant than you are.

[942767]

Hi CLIO-PATRA:

If the Apostle Paul is wrong regarding salvation being by “faith” so that it might be by grace, please tell me how then are we to be saved?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2009,09:45)

Hi Bd, You must be as cunning as serpents…. God wants all to be saved and is more tolerant than you are.

Is that really coming from you that wishes to condemn Muslims?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
The muslim faith is pointless.
Like many trivial amusements it entertains the lost.
Let the dead bury the dead but the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ is still being preached..

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,09:50)

Hi CLIO-PATRA: If the Apostle Paul is wrong regarding salvation being by “faith” so that it might be by grace, please tell me how then are we to be saved? Love in Christ, Marty

If you are saved by faith so that it might be by grace then please explain to me how a sacrifice was needed at all?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2009,10:02)

Hi BD, The muslim faith is pointless. Like many trivial amusements it entertains the lost. Let the dead bury the dead but the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ is still being preached..

Is that your version of tolerance?

Can a person receive Salvation by the grace of God, yes or No?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
We are not here to justify anything to intellectual rebels but to offer salvation in Jesus.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 24 2009,10:05)

Hi BD, We are not here to justify anything to intellectual rebels but to offer salvation in Jesus.

Can a person receive Salvation by the grace of God, yes or No?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 24 2009,10:02)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,09:50) Hi CLIO-PATRA: If the Apostle Paul is wrong regarding salvation being by “faith” so that it might be by grace, please tell me how then are we to be saved? Love in Christ, Marty If you are saved by faith so that it might be by grace then please explain to me how a sacrifice was needed at all?

Hi BD:

Faith is believing that the Word of God is true, and so, the faith to which I refer includes the fact that Jesus is God's “Only Begotten Son and His Christ”, that he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross, and he was resurrected from the dead, and is now in his exalted position as head of the church at the right hand of God his and my Father.

The sacrifice is needed to wash away your sins when you come to God with a repentant heart through what He has done for you through this sacrifice, and also, to wash away your sins when you fall short of perfect obedience after you become a born again Christian.

This is what the Apostle Peter has to say:

Quote

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1Pe 1:22 ¶ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently: 1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1Pe 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,10:51)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 24 2009,10:02) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,09:50) Hi CLIO-PATRA: If the Apostle Paul is wrong regarding salvation being by “faith” so that it might be by grace, please tell me how then are we to be saved? Love in Christ, Marty If you are saved by faith so that it might be by grace then please explain to me how a sacrifice was needed at all? Hi BD: Faith is believing that the Word of God is true, and so, the faith to which I refer includes the fact that Jesus is God's  “Only Begotten Son and His Christ”, that he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross, and he was resurrected from the dead, and is now in his exalted position as head of the church at the right hand of God his and my Father. The sacrifice is needed to wash away your sins when you come to God with a repentant heart through what He has done for you through this sacrifice, and also, to wash away your sins when you fall short of perfect obedience after you become a born again Christian. This is what the Apostle Peter has to say: Quote 1Pe 1:18   Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;   1Pe 1:19   But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:   1Pe 1:20   Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,   1Pe 1:21   Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.   1Pe 1:22 ¶ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:   1Pe 1:23   Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.   1Pe 1:24   For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:   1Pe 1:25   But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.   Love in Christ, Marty

But what of the faith and salvation through grace before Christ?

Paul uses these as an example as well.

Can you receive salvation by faith in God alone

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,15:54)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,10:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 24 2009,10:02) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,09:50) Hi CLIO-PATRA: If the Apostle Paul is wrong regarding salvation being by “faith” so that it might be by grace, please tell me how then are we to be saved? Love in Christ, Marty If you are saved by faith so that it might be by grace then please explain to me how a sacrifice was needed at all? Hi BD: Faith is believing that the Word of God is true, and so, the faith to which I refer includes the fact that Jesus is God's  “Only Begotten Son and His Christ”, that he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross, and he was resurrected from the dead, and is now in his exalted position as head of the church at the right hand of God his and my Father. The sacrifice is needed to wash away your sins when you come to God with a repentant heart through what He has done for you through this sacrifice, and also, to wash away your sins when you fall short of perfect obedience after you become a born again Christian. This is what the Apostle Peter has to say: Quote 1Pe 1:18   Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;   1Pe 1:19   But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:   1Pe 1:20   Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,   1Pe 1:21   Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.   1Pe 1:22 ¶ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:   1Pe 1:23   Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.   1Pe 1:24   For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:   1Pe 1:25   But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.   Love in Christ, Marty But what of the faith and salvation through grace before Christ? Paul uses these as an example as well. Can you receive salvation by faith in God alone

James had something to say on that:

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. . . But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? . . For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:18,20,26

[Constitutionalist]

Faith makes works manifest.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 23 2009,03:42)

Now you have done it Cleo-patra. You can't post in the believers section any more. Never the less, an interesting discourse. Tim

Because one disagrees with the Paulene writings makes them a non-believer of the rest?

Pretty Judgemental!

Cleo-patra didn't seem to disregard all the other teachings.

Is it in the by-laws somewhere that if one disagrees with Paul they are banned? If so could you show it to me?

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2009,18:53)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 23 2009,13:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2009,14:33) Hi CP, How would you rate your chances if Paul does not measure up? Chances for what? Hi CON, Measuring up. I guess CP has done more miracles, raised more from the dead and preached better and wiser messages.

Paul raised the dead? What miracles did Paul do? I have must of missed something, I am anticipating your showing me.

Ron

[Author]

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