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Hi Mia:
Marty, I partly agree with Gene on Matthew 24. See the verse you quoted
Of course, you are free to agree with whomever you wish, but I have not seen the abomination of desolation not the time of trouble such as never has occurred since the world began nor will ever occur again. The abomination of the desolation is the onset of this tribulation, and immediately after the tribulation, the scriptures state that we will see Jesus coming in the clouds for his church.
Luke 21 has it this way:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Daniel 12:
Daniel 12King James Version (KJV)
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Zechariah 14
Zechariah 14King James Version (KJV)
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Hi Marty,
You say you have not seen the abomination.
You won’t, because it was before 70ad (been and gone).
The disciples took heed to Jesus’ warning and ran to Pella in 66ad when they saw the abomination which causes desolation. Three and a half years later (just as Jesus foretold), the temple, and Jerusalem were left DESOLATE.
Matthew 24 describes two time frames. Firstly, the Roman world/ End of the age/ Destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. Second stage from Matthew 21 onward is the lead up to the end of the world and the return of Christ. If you don’t believe me, study the words in Greek before Matthew 21 compared to Matthew 21 onward.Likewise, Luke 1-24 is about Jerusalem, and the abomination of desolation is identified as “Jerusalem surrounded by armies”, and the Disciples/ early church were warned to flee to the mountains (they fled to Pella).
Then, verse 25 onward is regarding the world, leading up to the return of Christ.[5] And as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said,
[6] “As for these things which you see, the days will come when there shall not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
[7] And they asked him, “Teacher, when will this be, and what will be the sign when this is about to take place?”
[8] And he said, “Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying,I am he!' and,The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.
[9] And when you hear of wars and tumults, do not be terrified; for this must first take place, but the end will not be at once.”
[10] Then he said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom;
[11] there will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.
[12] But before all this they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors for my name’s sake.
[13] This will be a time for you to bear testimony.
[14] Settle it therefore in your minds, not to meditate beforehand how to answer;
[15] for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.
[16] You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and kinsmen and friends, and some of you they will put to death;
[17] you will be hated by all for my name’s sake.
[18] But not a hair of your head will perish.
[19] By your endurance you will gain your lives.
[20] “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
[21] Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it;
[22] for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written.
[23] Alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! For great distress shall be upon the earth and wrath upon this people;
[24] they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.Marty, the Old Testament verses you quoted above are fulfilled. That’s the conclusion I came to. They have to be understood spiritually (yes Ed, see, I do), and were fulfilled in Christ, His standing on the Mt of Olives, His salvation of the world, healing waters, continuous day not darkness, Heavenly Jerusalem, and so on.
Nick…. The pieces of the puzzle fits, he that has the eyes to see let him see.
peace and love to you and yours …….gene
Miia……you have it right. the abomnation that makes desolation spoken by Daniel the prophet, has been fulfilled. JESUS was warning the deciples of the their impending situation. Then he went on to explain about what was going to take place at his return.
By the way the “powers of heaven”, are the gravitational pull between the planets that lock the heavens together, they shall be shaken, and that willcause the earth to shall reel to and fro like a drunkard. Isa 24:20 , imagine the waves that will produce it could wipe out over half the earths population, becaus most people live along the sea areas of the world. There will be giant sunnies waves could be as high as three hundred feet i believe is possible. IT also shows that the world will see it comming on the earth, in advance and with our powerfull tellescopes that is very possible, it will be a giant CELESTIAL event. when we see these things taking place we need to know it is the sign for the return of JESUS. WE can know this, the world as a whole will not. IMO
peace and love to you and yours ………gen
kerwin….AT LEAST 95% of all “christain” churches today believe AND WORSHIP JESUS AS A GOD. The apostle PAUL in, 2Ths2, was not talking to or about the whole world as many mistakingly believe, he was addressing the CHURCH itself, and what was going to take place in it. The mystery of iniquity was already beginning to form even in his day, within the Church of God itself, PAUL was not talking about the world, nether was JOHN when he spoke concerning the many Antichrists that were already existing in the church. Non of their concerns was about the world, they were concerned about what was going on in the churches and the dangers the church faced both then and after their demise. IMO
peace and love to you and yours …….gene
Hi GB,
With a little bit of logic glue you can make your fabrication work?
After Gene said this to me,
I have to agree with you Nick!I said THE EXACT OPPOSITE of this first line, proving
that Gene is not processing information he reads correctly…“EDj……To me it is clear that to see Jesus as a GOD,
and worship him as such, is IDOLATRY, and breakes the commandmets of God,
“YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME”, AND God the Father said clearly
there is No God besides me, he said he know none other God but him alone.” – Gene Balthrop…hey, maybe it is because Gene has no “Free Will”;
he says he only has a captivated will, maybe he is right ???_______________
God bless
Ed JGene,
The U.S is more dominated by the Trinitarian heresy that some other countries so 95% is probably too high but maybe not by much. I am not sure why you chose to separate Christians out of the group of humanity. Islam believe in one God and in Jesus even though their Jesus, like those of many heretics, is not the true Jesus. Hindus also be in many gods that are one true God, Brahman, though they include humans in that unity. Buddhism may be similar since it is an offshoot of Hinduism. The Hindus even believe in Jesus but like many heretics he is a different Jesus than that testified in Scripture. False doctrines abound and somehow the false Prophet will have to unite them. He will have to also appeal to Atheist. All this is necessary for the whole world to be fooled.
Hi Marty,
You say you have not seen the abomination.
You won’t, because it was before 70ad (been and gone).
The disciples took heed to Jesus’ warning and ran to Pella in 66ad when they saw the abomination which causes desolation. Three and a half years later (just as Jesus foretold), the temple, and Jerusalem were left DESOLATE.Hi Miia,
What was this ‘abomination of desolation’ that they all saw that was set up in 66ad?
…and please be specific
Ed,
I think Gene holds his will is captivated by both his own desires and the circumstances of his choices.
I disagree as desires are part of the circumstances and circumstances are what I consider in making my choice.
Gene,
I think Paul was addressing the whole world as heretics may or may not be considered part of the church. For a Catholic is not different than a Hindu though the later split off from the true doctrine earlier.
kerwin…. HIS LETTER WAS SENT TO THE CHURCH OF GOD AT THESLANICA , and was only speaking to those who were in the church. JUST the same as all his letters were sent to the churches, and the same applies to JOHN also.
ANOTHER POINT Paul said it would come after a falling away, now who were those that could fall away the world , ho never was part of the church , or the true church itself. ALSO he plainly said that it would come from “THE MIDST”, he was speaking about the true church and their “falling away” from the “TRUTH”.
This should not be a problem for you or anyone else to understand Kerwin.
peace and love to you and yours ………gene
Gene,
All his letters were sent to the church but they were not without prior context. As I said preciously he is not teaching a new thing but one already known among both the Jews and the Christians. That is that one would come in the spirit of Belial, the lieutenant of Satan, to lead the wicked against the people of God in the last days. He is also known the prince Gog in the book of Revelation and is probably referred to in Danial as well.
I am not so bold as some to claim my understanding are inspired by God and so I choose to traditional understandings when I can and when they are consistent with Scripture.
In verse 3 of 2 Thessalonians 2 we are told there is a great falling away first. There has been a great falling away from the truth which is why so many heresies abound. The Roman Empire established the Catholic Church and attempted to truly make it the universal church by oppressing other sects to resolve that issue to resolve that issue even as that tolerated pagan religions. Never the less, I cannot sure that is the great falling away as the truth has not spread to all nations.
Dear Friends,
Be not deceived,for in order for one to see God one must see his Christ first.One cannot see God apart from Christ.When Isaiah saw God in Isa.6 he saw Christ as is revealed in St John 12.The disciples prayed to see the Father to satisfy themselves and just what was Christ’s response? If you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father. Even St Paul who was devout in his religion knew not nor saw God until he saw Christ and was saved,for he asked just who was the Lord who spoke to him and it was Jesus Christ.
Abraham,Issac,Jacob,Moses,Isaiah,Ezekiel and all the holy saints of old saw God and it was only in the form of of Christ. For thus God has chosen to reveal himself in human form,that is in the blessed image of his only Son.
Just who was that eternal logos which was with God and was God and became flesh?
It is only Christ as both God and man which tears down the fleshly temples and doctrines that separate us from him. And that was Christ’s mission on earth which he accomplished.
Thus no matter what temple ye seek God in whether it be spiritual or physical or both ye must have the man and God called Jesus Christ sitting there or ye seek in vain for He is the way,truth and life and no man sees or knows the Father apart from him.
By separating the Father from the Son you lose both and see not the Truth.
Ye need not worship a being called Trinity or three Gods called Trinity but only God in the holy form of the man called Jesus Christ.
All blessings to all of the seekers of Heaven.net.
It was not the devil,nor the antichrist,nor St Paul, St John or the RC church who raised up and put the man called Jesus Christ in God’s temple. It was God himself thus we must also worship Christ in our temples as God has ordained.
Of course God was in Christ and Christ was also in God while the fleshly form of God went about reconciling the world,even you, to himself.
Dear Nick,
Fear not Satan’s doctrines or lies for Christ came to bring us to God and raise us up as himself in God’s temple.
AndrewAD….YOU have fallen for THE DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION, hook line and sinker., John 1:18…JESUS said “NO MAN” HAS SEEN THE GOD “AT ANY TIME”, the only begotten (human born son) Son which is in the bosom (closest ) of the FATHER, HAS “DECLARD” Him. JESUS NEVER TOOK THE POSITON OF A God of any kind. Or haven’t you read the words of JESUS, John17:3 “and this is eternal life, that they might know YOU the ‘ONLY TRUE GOD”, and Jesus the anointed whom you have sent.
How plain, how simple, the man JESUS BELIEVED AND SAID THAT GOD WAS THE ‘ONLY” TRUE GOD. SO to me that means all other so-called God’s are false Gods.
AndrewAD, sorry brother but there is no trinity , nor is there anyother GOD besides to “ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD” and anyone else that is being desplayed and worshiped as a God is a liar, and those who believe it loves not the truth, and GOD has sent them a strong delusion, in order for them to believe “THE LIE” . AND THAT LIE IS THAT JESUS IS A GOD AND HE IS WORSHIPED BY NEARLY ALL CHRISTAINS AS SUCH. THIS WHOLE FALSE TEACHING CAME FROM THE VERY MIDEST OF THE CHURCH AND BECAME THE ESTABLISHED DOCTRINE OF THE “CHRISTIAN” CHURCHES IN 325 AD, BY THE PAGAN EMPERIOR CONSTANTINE HIMSELF.
IDOLATRY, will not be tolerated by, “OUR ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD.”. YOUR choice, believe it or reject it.
peace and love to you and yours ……..gene
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