- This topic has 2,237 replies, 40 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Jodi,
Yes we need to pray to spared hard testing.
Luke 22:31
“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;Hi Jodi,
Of course if we do not know the existence of the god of this world then man becomes the enemy.
And the fear of man the curse.Deuteronomy 1:17
' You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike You shall not fear man, for the judgment is God's The case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.'Psalm 118:6
The LORD is for me; I will not fear; What can man do to me?Proverbs 29:25
The fear of man brings a snare,But he who trusts in the LORD will be exaltedQuote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2009,23:19) Hi Jodi,
Of course if we do not know the existence of the god of this world then man becomes the enemy.
And the fear of man the curse.
Huh?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2009,22:54) Hi Jodi,
In Christ you should not fear Satan.
If you can accept the truth of scripture Rom16 says“17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
We will crush him.
Hi Nick,Here is a question for you, WHY HAVE YOU CHANGED THE SUBJECT? Why don't you address the subject matter?
Luke 10:13 `Wo to thee, Chorazin; wo to thee, Bethsaida; for if in Tyre and Sidon had been done the mighty works that were done in you, long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes, they had reformed; 14 but for Tyre and Sidon it shall be more tolerable in the judgment than for you. 15 `And thou, Capernaum, which unto the heaven wast exalted, unto hades thou shalt be brought down. 16 `He who is hearing you, doth hear me; and he who is putting you away, doth put me away; and he who is putting me away, doth put away Him who sent me.'
17 And the seventy turned back with joy, saying, `Sir, and the demons are being subjected to us in thy name;' 18 and he said to them, `I was beholding the Adversary, as lightning from the heaven having fallen; 19 lo, I give to you the authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and on all the power of the enemy, and nothing by any means shall hurt you;
The Old Testament and the New speak of men, kings, kingdoms of which are exalted to the heavens but are brought down, or cast out of the heavens and have fallen.
There is not a scripture that speaks of a supernatural being exalting himself as a god, and then God punishing him by casting him down to earth.
2 Kings 13:23 But the Lord was gracious to them, had compassion on them, and regarded them, because of His covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not yet destroy them or cast them from His presence.
2 Kings 24:20 For because of the anger of the Lord this happened in Jerusalem and Judah, that He finally cast them out from His presence. Then Zedekiah rebelled against the king of Babylon.
2 Chronicles 20:7 Are You not our God, who drove out the inhabitants of this land before Your people Israel, and gave it to the descendants of Abraham Your friend forever? 8 And they dwell in it, and have built You a sanctuary in it for Your name, saying, 9 'If disaster comes upon us–sword, judgment, pestilence, or famine–we will stand before this temple and in Your presence (for Your name is in this temple), and cry out to You in our affliction, and You will hear and save.'
Psalms 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8 Make me hear joy and gladness, That the bones You have broken may rejoice. 9 Hide Your face from my sins, And blot out all my iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. 11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. 12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, And uphold me by Your generous Spirit. 13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, And sinners shall be converted to You.
David considers his house, his city to be the city of YHWH,
Psalms 101:1 A Psalm of David. I will sing of mercy and justice; To You, O Lord, I will sing praises. 2 I will behave wisely in a perfect way. Oh, when will You come to me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart. 3 I will set nothing wicked before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; It shall not cling to me. 4 A perverse heart shall depart from me; I will not know wickedness. 5 Whoever secretly slanders his neighbor, Him I will destroy; The one who has a haughty look and a proud heart, Him I will not endure. 6 My eyes shall be on the faithful of the land, That they may dwell with me; He who walks in a perfect way, He shall serve me. 7 He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house; He who tells lies shall not continue in my presence. 8 Early I will destroy all the wicked of the land, That I may cut off all the evildoers from the city of the Lord.
Jeremiah 23:6 And the oracle of the Lord you shall mention no more. For every man's word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our God. 37 Thus you shall say to the prophet, 'What has the Lord answered you?' and, 'What has the Lord spoken?' 38 But since you say, 'The oracle of the Lord!' therefore thus says the Lord: 'Because you say this word, “The oracle of the Lord!” and I have sent to you, saying, “Do not say, 'The oracle of the Lord!' ” 39 therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence. 40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.' “
Jeremiah 52:2 He also did evil in the sight of the Lord, according to all that Jehoiakim had done. 3 For because of the anger of the Lord this happened in Jerusalem and Judah, till He finally cast them out from His presence. Then Zedekiah rebelled against the king of Babylon.
The bible shows that it is MAN, who is CAST OUT of God's presence.
Hi Jodi,
Yes Satan appears only a few times in the OT.
But the NT reveals the fulness of the OT through the mouth of Jesus.The adversary appears in the Old Testament directly as man, and directly as God's messengers.
From my understanding and the scriptures that I have given, of which no one seems to want to discuss, the adversary against man is never said to be a sinful supernatural being who wants to be a god.
Below are two examples where !tX (saw-tan') is not directly referred to man or to God's messengers, however there is no evidence to have us believe that the adversary is an evil and sinful supernatural being in those texts. Actually IMO they fit quite clearly with how !tX (saw-tan') has been directly referred to in other scriptures.
Here as God's messenger-
Psalms 109:1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise; 2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. 3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. 4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer. 5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office. 9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
David is specifically asking God to bring God's messenger of infliction onto his enemies.
Here as man-
1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.David consistently calls his enemies who want to fight him his adversaries. A threatening force wanting to defeat him, would certainly drive him to number his men.
Hi Jodi,
Yes the carnal men of the OT could be shown so little of what was happening behind the scenes.
Jesus the teacher opens up the heavenly aspects.
Satan has always been busy.!tX (saw-tan') is definitely prevalent in our world! A man certainly can prove to be his own enemy, as well as an adversary to God and most certainly to other people. As well, God's messengers of infliction are certainly at work today being adversaries unto man.
Quote A DRAGON doth draw a third of the stars? The dragon is specifically said to be kings, satan is a WORD meaning adversary, devil a WORD meaning slanderer. How EXACTLY do KINGS and kingdoms fight IN heaven and draw stars?
–jodi
spirit creatures (Angels) are also called stars in the Bible.
Example:
JOB 38:7
“When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?”And, if you don't think this war happens in heaven, then why these words:
“and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth.”
“but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven.”
And then it twice speaks of them being “hurled down.”What do you think “heaven” represents here, if taken symbolically?
Quote From my understanding and the scriptures that I have given, of which no one seems to want to discuss, the adversary against man is never said to be a sinful supernatural being who wants to be a god. I'm curious what you make of 2 cor 4:4:
2 CORINTHIANS 4:4
“among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”Jesus also spoke of “the ruler of the world” who was clearly in opposition to him. I wonder who you think this is?
JOHN 14:30
“I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me,”Jodi, I'm curious who you think this is:
MATTHEW 13:24-30
“Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’””MATTHEW 13:37-42
“In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be.”Who is the enemy?
Jesus is the sower, but who is the enemy that sowed the weeds? He is called the devil or slanderer. But who is this slanderer that could do this thing?1 JOHN 3:8
“He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.”Or,
1 JOHN 3:8
“He who carries on sin originates with the slanderer, because the slanderer has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the slanderer.”To me, this seems like one person, who has been sinning from the beginning. What man existed in the beginning that still exists?
JOHN 8:44
“YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, …. he is a liar and the father of [the lie].”It seems there is one specific special slanderer that has existed for a long time. Does it not?
HEBREWS 2:14
“Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil;”How can the “one”, “the slanderer” cause death? Who is this one?
LUKE 10:18
“At that he said to them: “I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from HEAVEN.”
REVELATION 12:8-9
“but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in HEAVEN. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”
(If you take Revelation to be symoblic, what of Luke's account? Do both accounts not suggest that there is one who is an opposer and slanderer that was cast out of heaven…hence, a spirit creature, not a man.)MATTHEW 25:41
““Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.”
It seems there is one “slanderer” (devil) and he has messengers (angels.)If this is a human, who is it?
Hi Jodi:
You say:
Quote God created the enmity God said, “I will put emnity…” not create emnity. I believe that there is a difference.
Hi Nick:
You say relative to satan:
Quote We will crush him But the scripture actaully states:
Quote 20And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly Hi David:
You ask:
Quote Who is the enemy?
Jesus is the sower, but who is the enemy that sowed the weeds? He is called the devil or slanderer. But who is this slanderer that could do this thing?The good seed is the Word of God. The weeds that are sown are by these:
Quote Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Quote Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Quote Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Marty
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
