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Quote (acertainchap @ July 28 2007,00:18) Quote (david @ April 01 2007,08:53) I don't believe this. And I don't believe that Jehovah created evil. I believe that he made men in such a way that they have free will. (Ecclesiastes 7:29) “See! This only I have found, that the [true] God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans.””
(Deuteronomy 32:5) “They have acted ruinously on their own part; They are not his children, the defect is their own. A generation crooked and twisted!”
When one is about to sin, evil enters their mind. This enters through choice. God didn't create evil but he created free-will. If we make bad choices on that free-will, then evil results as a consequence.
I guess Isaiah just did not know what he was talking about.“That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS” (Isaiah 45:6-7)
Why is it so hard to believe that God created everything. Nothing that exists was created without Him.
Tim
Quote (acertainchap @ July 28 2007,00:18) Quote (david @ April 01 2007,08:53) I don't believe this. And I don't believe that Jehovah created evil. I believe that he made men in such a way that they have free will. (Ecclesiastes 7:29) “See! This only I have found, that the [true] God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans.””
(Deuteronomy 32:5) “They have acted ruinously on their own part; They are not his children, the defect is their own. A generation crooked and twisted!”
When one is about to sin, evil enters their mind. This enters through choice. God didn't create evil but he created free-will. If we make bad choices on that free-will, then evil results as a consequence.
Amen to this. When the scripture states that God creates evil, it is speaking in terms of the calamities that he creates. He does this in the interest of leading men to repentance.God Bless
When Isaiah said that God creates evil the same Hebrew word ra was used for evil
that was used to mean evil 442 other times in the old testament.
There is no reason to believe that at this one time it meant something else other
than evil.Tim
Quote (acertainchap @ July 28 2007,00:18) When one is about to sin, evil enters their mind. This enters through choice. God didn't create evil but he created free-will. If we make bad choices on that free-will, then evil results as a consequence.
So it was the free will choice of the Pharaoh to defy God and Moses.Exd 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
Exd 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
Exd 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
I don't think so.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ July 29 2007,07:03) Quote (acertainchap @ July 28 2007,00:18) When one is about to sin, evil enters their mind. This enters through choice. God didn't create evil but he created free-will. If we make bad choices on that free-will, then evil results as a consequence.
So it was the free will choice of the Pharaoh to defy God and Moses.Exd 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
Exd 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
Exd 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
I don't think so.
Tim
Hi Tim VI:While it is true that the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart, according to the scripture. The following scipture shows that he, that is Pharoah had a “free will” and chose not to obey God.
Quote Exodus 5
5:1
And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.
5:2
And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go ? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.God Bless
Hi,
It was by the will of God that Satan was allowed to kill Job's children, destroy his possessions and nearly kill him.[Jb 1-2]Quote (TimothyVI @ July 28 2007,09:55) “That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS” (Isaiah 45:6-7) Why is it so hard to believe that God created everything. Nothing that exists was created without Him.
Tim
I checked this passage on http://www.biblegateway.com and do not see the 'AND CREATE EVIL' part anywhere. This is something that you made up.The darkness means the night, and God chose the color black to represent the darkness so that we could see it's differences from the light. Which I might add is an entirely different hue.
Quote (942767 @ July 29 2007,05:24) When the scripture states that God creates evil, it is speaking in terms of the calamities that he creates. He does this in the interest of leading men to repentance. God Bless
And these calamities are seperate from the problem of evil or essence of evil.Quote (acertainchap @ July 30 2007,10:17) Quote (TimothyVI @ July 28 2007,09:55) “That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS” (Isaiah 45:6-7) Why is it so hard to believe that God created everything. Nothing that exists was created without Him.
Tim
I checked this passage on http://www.biblegateway.com and do not see the 'AND CREATE EVIL' part anywhere. This is something that you made up.The darkness means the night, and God chose the color black to represent the darkness so that we could see it's differences from the light. Which I might add is an entirely different hue.
Yep you are quick chap, you caught me. I just made that up when I wrote it in 1500 for the KJV bible.
I also convinced some other publishers to use the same lie.
What can I say. You caught me.Isa 45:7
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things. YLTIsa 45:7
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things. DBYIsa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make shalom, and create evil. I am the LORD, who does all these things. HNVIsa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. KJVTim
to all ..>good explains what evils is and evil explains what good is, how could we truley know the difference if you didn't experience them. I believe it was needfull for us to experience both good and evil first hand and thats why God allowes it.
Quote (acertainchap @ July 29 2007,17:17) Quote (TimothyVI @ July 28 2007,09:55) “That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS” (Isaiah 45:6-7) Why is it so hard to believe that God created everything. Nothing that exists was created without Him.
Tim
I checked this passage on http://www.biblegateway.com and do not see the 'AND CREATE EVIL' part anywhere. This is something that you made up.The darkness means the night, and God chose the color black to represent the darkness so that we could see it's differences from the light. Which I might add is an entirely different hue.
ACC,Use bible.cc as another source in your searches. It will allow you to see verses as translated in several different versions of the Bible.
Is 45:7NASB: The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these. (NASB ©1995)
GWT: I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things.(GOD'S WORD®)
KJV: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
ASV: I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
BBE: I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
DBY: forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.
ERV: I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
JPS: I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
WBS: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
WEB: I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
YLT: Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'Quote (TimothyVI @ July 30 2007,12:23) Quote (acertainchap @ July 30 2007,10:17) Quote (TimothyVI @ July 28 2007,09:55) “That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS” (Isaiah 45:6-7) Why is it so hard to believe that God created everything. Nothing that exists was created without Him.
Tim
I checked this passage on http://www.biblegateway.com and do not see the 'AND CREATE EVIL' part anywhere. This is something that you made up.The darkness means the night, and God chose the color black to represent the darkness so that we could see it's differences from the light. Which I might add is an entirely different hue.
Yep you are quick chap, you caught me. I just made that up when I wrote it in 1500 for the KJV bible.
I also convinced some other publishers to use the same lie.
What can I say. You caught me.Isa 45:7
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things. YLTIsa 45:7
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things. DBYIsa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make shalom, and create evil. I am the LORD, who does all these things. HNVIsa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. KJVTim
Hi Tim. I meant no offense to you when posting my thoughts. It is what I believe about this subject at the present time.Peace Brother.
That's O.K. chap.
Like most of us I get many things wrong when studying scriptures.
Sometimes I actually get irritated that they seem so confusing.
However, I never make any thing up as you implied. My interpretation
may just be different. On the contrary, many Christian theologians and translators have
certainly made things up. I merely wanted to give you the opportunity to
see for yourself the false statements. You must make up your own mind.Blessings to you friend,
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ July 31 2007,01:02) That's O.K. chap.
Like most of us I get many things wrong when studying scriptures.
Sometimes I actually get irritated that they seem so confusing.
However, I never make any thing up as you implied. My interpretation
may just be different. On the contrary, many Christian theologians and translators have
certainly made things up. I merely wanted to give you the opportunity to
see for yourself the false statements. You must make up your own mind.Blessings to you friend,
Tim
“I merely wanted to give you the opportunity to
see for yourself the false statements.”*I know that, friend. I shouldn't have implied that you made that up.
“On the contrary, many Christian theologians and translators have
certainly made things up.”*I hope not but you may indeed be right. This might have been why you are of this interpretation. I'm not 100% sure on the origin of evil at the moment either. Just stay strong.
Peace!
Quote (acertainchap @ July 31 2007,01:13) *I hope not but you may indeed be right. This might have been why you are of this interpretation. I'm not 100% sure on the origin of evil at the moment either. Just stay strong. Peace!
Hi chap,Your reply to my statement that translators and theologians have made things up was “I hope not”.
People have obviously decided that the scribes added to the scriptures, consequently we have removed things like 1 John 5:7 from all newer additions of the bible. Even the canonization was not inspired by God. If it was then how could the protestants remove 14 complete books from the official authorized bible that we consider to be the right one.
The scriptures themselves tell us to not believe everything that is written because the scribes lied.
Jer 8:8 “How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made {it} into a lie.
This is why we need God to help us see the truth.
Tim
Quote (acertainchap @ July 30 2007,10:20) Quote (942767 @ July 29 2007,05:24) When the scripture states that God creates evil, it is speaking in terms of the calamities that he creates. He does this in the interest of leading men to repentance. God Bless
And these calamities are seperate from the problem of evil or essence of evil.
That's the way I see it.God's evil or clamity brings about GOOD. So in reality God's evil is not as Satan's evil. If you don't know what is bad then you don't know what is good.
Isa 45:7
(ASV) I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
(CEV) I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the LORD, do all of this.
(DRB) I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
(ESV) I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
(GNB) I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the LORD, do all these things.
(GW) I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things.
(KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(KJV+) I form3335 the light,216 and create1254 darkness:2822 I make6213 peace,7965 and create1254 evil:7451 I589 the LORD3068 do6213 all3605 these428 things.
(KJVR) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(LITV) forming light, and creating darkness; making peace, and creating evil. I, Jehovah, do all these things.
(MKJV) forming the light and creating darkness; making peace and creating evil. I Jehovah do all these things.
(MSG) I form light and create darkness, I make harmonies and create discords. I, GOD, do all these things.
Hi,
Satan is condemned and he knows it.
So now his only pleasure is insulting God and using men to do it.God used Judas to accomplish his will – do you think he will forever punish Judas?
OR did Satan use Judas to accomplish his will?
God also hardened Pharroah (sp) to accomplish his will. OR did Satan do that?
Hmmm there seems to be some question as to who causes men to do evil or speak out against God? God or Satan?
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