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Nick,
From what I can see chapter 1 and 2 say that it is God through the adversary “Satan” testing Job.
Satan said for GOD to put forth his (Gods hand) and to cause evil things to Job – then God said it is in your (Satans) hand
for God to effect the physical realm he uses physical things – that is why God putting forth his hand is also Satan putting forth his hand – Satan is the instrument of God.
Nick…..why would you have to remove anything from the text, Evil ( the adversarial Spirit (EVIL) that work in the children of disobedience) is everywhere. and does go to and fro thought the earth just as it says, But it is God who controls and send it, to accomplish His Purposes. There is no separate (BEING) Creature going around jumping into people at his will, there is only (EVIL AND GOOD) (SPIRIT) or INTELLECTS and its every where life is, and it will always exist, because life will always consist of (good and evil) You or no one else has ever seen any demon, devil, or Satan, Creatures or beings any where or ever will. YOU have only seen Evil influencing Human Being going around seeing who they can devour. Humans are the Satan's and the devils, and who become totally influenced are considered to be (POSSESSED) BY IT.
reread what Jodi said and think about it Nick this time.
love and peace………..to you Nick……………..gene
Hi:
Many things in the scriptures are difficult to understand, and so, sometimes we like Job do not understand, but this is the attitude that we as Christians need to take as we seek to understand:
Quote Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
Job 13:16 He also [shall be] my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.Quote Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Quote 1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Quote Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves Quote Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Quote Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Quote Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world Quote Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Quote Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Quote Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Quote Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Quote Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
We, as born again Christains could not become like Jesus, if we did not have this world in which to learn to apply the Word of God to our daily lives. God has allowed this world of sin to call every man the opportunity to be reconciled to Him through His wonderful provision. As Christians, we would not have the privilege of serving God in exercising His plan to save His children from the destruction caused by sin.
God is also working from above sending judgments upon the earth mingled with mercy. For the most part, men do not think about their need for God unless there are problems.
For a Christian this world is the refining fire, and also for Job.
Quote 1Pe 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.
Quote Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Job 38:2 Who [is] this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Hi MK,
Certainly God allows Satan to test his children.
Satan can do nothing without the agreement of God.
And His children are given tools to confront and defeat Satan
God does not tempt men but we are warned of Satan, the roaring lion.1 Peter 4:18
AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 26 2008,06:08) Nick…..why would you have to remove anything from the text, Evil ( the adversarial Spirit (EVIL) that work in the children of disobedience) is everywhere. and does go to and fro thought the earth just as it says, But it is God who controls and send it, to accomplish His Purposes. There is no separate (BEING) Creature going around jumping into people at his will, there is only (EVIL AND GOOD) (SPIRIT) or INTELLECTS and its every where life is, and it will always exist, because life will always consist of (good and evil) You or no one else has ever seen any demon, devil, or Satan, Creatures or beings any where or ever will. YOU have only seen Evil influencing Human Being going around seeing who they can devour. Humans are the Satan's and the devils, and who become totally influenced are considered to be (POSSESSED) BY IT. reread what Jodi said and think about it Nick this time.
love and peace………..to you Nick……………..gene
So you say GB and with conviction.
But we prefer the pure words of God.Is what we can see all that there is?
Can you see God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,16:26) Hi 94,
What we believe is not necessarily correct
Hi Nick:If you would like to teach me, I am alway open to correction if it is the Word of God. Maybe, you have a better understanding than me, and that is OK. I want the truth from whomever it comes.
God Bless
Nick ………I agree with Gene ……….
How does God chasten us – does he use adversity? In 1 Peter it says our adversary the devil “roams” seeking to “devour” Brethren are also given over to Satan (adversary) for the destruction of the flesh – so that the spirit is saved in the day of the lord – Job was chastened and scourged – and he praised God in the end.
Hebrews 12:5-6
Hbr 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou [bthe chastening of the Lord[/b], nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Mar 9:49 Mar 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Also I notice this says that the devil is our adversary not Gods adversary
GB,
Jodi and yourself express such serious doubts about scripture I am surprised you would offer yourselves as useful to help interpret it. If you do not believe it yourself can you help others?Hi mk,
Does God rate any adversaries and give them any glory?
Satan's fate is already sealed.
Jn16
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Ephesians 2:2
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.Rev20
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,08:39) Hi mk,
Does God rate any adversaries and give them any glory?
Satan's fate is already sealed.
Jn16
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Ephesians 2:2
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.Rev20
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
What are you talking bout Nick?God uses the adversary (satan) to chasten his children – then he will destroy the destroyer, I did not say that the devil was good or to be praised, he is to be destroyed along with all that is of the devil and the world (the flesh)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,15:53) Hi 94,
Why do you teach that the breath of God is the Spirit of God?
Scripture does not.
Hi Nick:I believe that the Spirit of God is the life of God. His very presence with us.
The scripture states that God breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils and he became a living soul, and after Jesus was resurrected from the dead, he said the following:
Quote Jhn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, HE BREATHED ON[them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jhn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.
And so, if my understanding is not correct, please give me the proper understanding if you have it. Thanks.
Hi 94,
The breath of God is not said to be the Spirit of God so we should not say so.
Jesus imparted the Spirit by his breath but he is not God.Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 26 2008,06:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,08:39) Hi mk,
Does God rate any adversaries and give them any glory?
Satan's fate is already sealed.
Jn16
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Ephesians 2:2
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.Rev20
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
What are you talking bout Nick?God uses the adversary (satan) to chasten his children – then he will destroy the destroyer, I did not say that the devil was good or to be praised, he is to be destroyed along with all that is of the devil and the world (the flesh)
Hi mk,
I agree.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,08:35) GB,
Jodi and yourself express such serious doubts about scripture I am surprised you would offer yourselves as useful to help interpret it. If you do not believe it yourself can you help others?
Nick,It seems to me that Jodi and Gene, and others express doubt over your interpretation of scripture and are seeking to understand what scripture means in context and not just what the physical words taken literally are, when we are told that the physical things that happened in the OT are examples “types” – there is a lot in the bible that needs to be understood with spiritual eyes.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,16:01) Hi 94,
If Adam received the Spirit of God and we all derive our life through him then we are all of the Spirit.
Not so ..we must be born again.
Hi Nick:Adam cannot give life to our soul. His seed is in his sperm, and this life is the life of the flesh.
Only God can give life to your soul, and he gave life to Adam, but through sin, Adam died. God had said to him, that if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “in the day that he ate of it, he would surely die”. Well he did eat, and he soul died in the day that he ate because he lost his fellowship with God. He continued to live in the flesh until his body detiorated and went back to the dust. But in this state of living. He was not in communion with God. And the same with us, if we have not been born again, we are physically alive but we are dead to God in our sins. We have no personal relationship with Him. And so, the Apostle Peter states:
Quote 1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. The gospel is to be preached to every creature. We were all in sin and dead to God at one time.
Hi 94,
The spirit of God cannot die.
Scripture does not say God gave His Spirit to Adam then removed it.
Adam was our example of man with natural life, alike to all flesh, being unable to follow the ways of God.We do not follow the natural man but the new Adam, the source for us of eternal life.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,10:25) Hi 94,
The spirit of God cannot die.
Scripture does not say God gave His Spirit to Adam then removed it.
Adam was our example of man with natural life, alike to all flesh, being unable to follow the ways of God.We do not follow the natural man but the new Adam, the source for us of eternal life.
Totally agree Nick – well said.Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 26 2008,07:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,08:35) GB,
Jodi and yourself express such serious doubts about scripture I am surprised you would offer yourselves as useful to help interpret it. If you do not believe it yourself can you help others?
Nick,It seems to me that Jodi and Gene, and others express doubt over your interpretation of scripture and are seeking to understand what scripture means in context and not just what the physical words taken literally are, when we are told that the physical things that happened in the OT are examples “types” – there is a lot in the bible that needs to be understood with spiritual eyes.
Hi mk,
Yes.But we see men allegorising what they cannot fit into their human doctrines.
We must let scripture speak and be allowed to interpret itself without our embellishments.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2008,08:25) Hi 94,
The spirit of God cannot die.
Scripture does not say God gave His Spirit to Adam then removed it.
Adam was our example of man with natural life, alike to all flesh, being unable to follow the ways of God.We do not follow the natural man but the new Adam, the source for us of eternal life.
Hi Niick:I never said that the Spirit of God can die, but God can and does withdraw His Spirit from someone who practices sin wilfully.
The scripture states:
Quote Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The instruction from God to Adam was:
Quote Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.Quote Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.He lost His fellowship with God because of disobedience, and so, he, his soul, is dead to God in his sins even if he is physically alive until the body detiorates and goes back to the dust.
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