Satan

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (chosenone @ Dec. 25 2008,06:40)

God describing Himself in the book of Isaiah: Is.45:7   I am Ieue Alueim, and there is none else. Former of light and creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Ieue Alueim, made all these things. God, describing making the “Adversary” (satan). Is.54:16 Behold! I, I created the artificer who blows into the fire of coal, And brings forth an implement for his occupation. And I, I created the ruiner (satan) to harm. Blessings.

HI CO

Well at least you admit that satan is a created being and not just an evil intellect or evil thought.

Unless yoiu want to teach that God creates “evil thoughts” or “evil intellects” as GB calls it.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16)

Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring. The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.   The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined.

Hi Jodi

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16)

Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God.

This is an untrue statement!

Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH…

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3

And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6

WJ

[Jodi]

Evil thoughts form from the imaginations of men when they strive to serve their flesh. These thoughts then become evil spirits that go out into the world and corrupt the influencial minds of others.

Jas 3:15
This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.

Those who say demonics represent evil spirit beings not apart of our created earth, ignore plain scripture and follow the superstitions and traditions of men.

[Jodi]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51)

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring. The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.   The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined. Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. This is an untrue statement! Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH… And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6 WJ

WJ,

The adversary WAS RIGHT, and God knew it. The messenger's work brought Job into repentence.

I suggest you reread Job.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You say
“Evil thoughts form from the imaginations of men when they strive to serve their flesh. These thoughts then become evil spirits that go out into the world and corrupt the influencial minds of others. “

This is a strange new teaching.
Where does it come from?

Somebody's thoughts?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:59)

Evil thoughts form from the imaginations of men when they strive to serve their flesh. These thoughts then become evil spirits that go out into the world and corrupt the influencial minds of others. Jas 3:15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. Those who say demonics represent evil spirit beings not apart of our created earth, ignore plain scripture and follow the superstitions and traditions of men.

Hi jodi

Nice try but no apples.

This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish (daimoniōdēs)
. James 3:15

Notice the Greek word for devilish is not “diabolos” but “daimoniōdēs” which means;

1) resembling or proceeding from an evil spirit, demon-like

Its found only this one time in the NT.

It is an adjective. Notice the Greek meaning is that the wisdom proceeds “from” an evil spirit or the “devil”.

Found here.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,08:04)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring. The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.   The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined. Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. This is an untrue statement! Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH… And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6 WJ WJ, The adversary WAS RIGHT, and God knew it. The messenger's work brought Job into repentence. I suggest you reread Job.

Hi Jodi

What? The adversary “satan” was right in trying to move Gods hand against Job to destroy him without cause?

It seems you need to read the book again because it is satan that rains fire down and destroys his family and possesions and afllcts job with boils and almost takes his life.

Can you show us where God does this to any of his people that are walking upright and perfect before him.

You have a warped understanding of God if you believe God does these things to the righteous.

WJ

[942767]

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:59)

Evil thoughts form from the imaginations of men when they strive to serve their flesh. These thoughts then become evil spirits that go out into the world and corrupt the influencial minds of others. Jas 3:15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. Those who say demonics represent evil spirit beings not apart of our created earth, ignore plain scripture and follow the superstitions and traditions of men.

Hi Jodi:

When these evil thoughts are obeyed, then they become part of a man's spirit. Sin or the spirit of disobedience to God entered into the world by one man, Adam. When he obeyed the serpent, the spirit of disobedience became became a part of his nature, and only way to correct this is if God's forgives the sin and washes it away by the blood of the lamb.

Then that person who is obeying evil, entices others to do the same, and the spirit enters into him and so forth.

Quote

Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not. Pro 1:11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause: Pro 1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit: Pro 1:13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil: Pro 1:14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse: Pro 1:15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path: Pro 1:16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood

[chosenone]

Two scriptures that show God is the author of ALL things.

Ro.11:36 … seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!

Eph.1:11 … being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One (God) Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,

All creation is subject to Gods' will, He is operating all. Likened to a play, He (God) is the author, we are the actors. All the script is predestined as to Gods directions.
He uses evil to accomplish His will, it is hard to understand at times, but His ways are not our ways, they are on a much higher plain.
At the consummation, the completed creation, God will be “ALL in all”. (1Cor.15:25) For He must be reigning until He (Jesus) should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him (God), Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So this is the spirit that returns to God at death? [eccl12]

Tarnished?

[Jodi]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,13:17)

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,08:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring. The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.   The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined. Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. This is an untrue statement! Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH… And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6 WJ WJ, The adversary WAS RIGHT, and God knew it. The messenger's work brought Job into repentence. I suggest you reread Job. Hi Jodi What? The adversary “satan” was right in trying to move Gods hand against Job to destroy him without cause? It seems you need to read the book again because it is satan that rains fire down and destroys his family and possesions and afllcts job with boils and almost takes his life. Can you show us where God does this to any of his people that are walking upright and perfect before him. You have a warped understanding of God if you believe God does these things to the righteous. WJ

Good Evening WJ,

Job 2:10
He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

7:17 “What is man that you make so much of him, that you give him so much attention, 18 that you examine him every morning and test him every moment? 19 Will you never look away from me, or let me alone even for an instant? 20 If I have sinned, what have I done to you, O watcher of men? Why have you made me your target? Have I become a burden to you? 21 Why do you not pardon my offenses and forgive my sins? For I will soon lie down in the dust; you will search for me, but I will be no more.”

10:1 “I loathe my very life; therefore I will give free rein to my complaint and speak out in the bitterness of my soul. 2 I will say to God: Do not condemn me, but tell me what charges you have against me. 3 Does it please you to oppress me, to spurn the work of your hands, while you smile on the schemes of the wicked?

Job 12:9 Which of all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this? 10 In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.

When you read through the book of Job it is evident that God found it necessary to test Job.

WJ, you can destroy a person and not kill them, you destroy their life, as I have already mentioned. The adversary specifically said

9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

Destroying everything that a person has is destroying them.

You are forcing the text and distoring it to fit your man made tradition.

The book of Job declares Job's suffering as coming from God, because the adversary was one of HIS messengers.

[Jodi]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,13:17)

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,08:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring. The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.   The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined. Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. This is an untrue statement! Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH… And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6 WJ WJ, The adversary WAS RIGHT, and God knew it. The messenger's work brought Job into repentence. I suggest you reread Job. Hi Jodi What? The adversary “satan” was right in trying to move Gods hand against Job to destroy him without cause? It seems you need to read the book again because it is satan that rains fire down and destroys his family and possesions and afllcts job with boils and almost takes his life. Can you show us where God does this to any of his people that are walking upright and perfect before him. You have a warped understanding of God if you believe God does these things to the righteous. WJ

Are you trying to say that Job was perfect, like Jesus without sin?

Like I said before you cannot read through the book of Job and not see that God found it necessary to inflict Job.

You seem to claim that God allowed the adversary to inflict Job in order to show the adversary that Job would still remain faithful. However the entire book after Chapter 2 is about God and Job, and has nothing to do with the adversary.

With your understanding God allows the torture of someone NOT FOR THEIR OWN benifit, but just to prove something to someone esle, I ask you -what kind of fair God is that?

God brings forth blessings and cursings onto mankind and He accomplishes this through His messengers. The adversary in Job is no exception.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,12:20)

Hi 94, So this is the spirit that returns to God at death? [eccl12] Tarnished?

Hi Nick:

The spirit that God gives his children is the Word of God that they obey. This is the spirit that goes back to God, and will be with Him in the spiritual body at the coming of the Lord for the church. The Word of God, the Word that He would teach His children, was with God in the beginning, and will be with Him for in eternity in those who have obeyed Him. He did not give us the spirit of disobedience, but it will go back to him to be destroyed.

He has a book of life called the lamb's book of life in which all the works of man are recorded.

He also has another book in which the works of those who are not obeying. These are the works of the devil that Jesus has come to destroy, and has by obeying God without sin even unto death on the cross.

Quote

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Quote

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Quote

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The “devil” is also called the serpent and is presented as someone in the garden of Eden who tempted Adam and Eve to disobey God, but the judgment rendered to the serpent by God is that he would crawl on his belly and eat dust all of the days of his life, but the seed of the serpent, the word that he sowed in Adam and Eve heart that caused them to disobey God, entered into the world through them. Before this Adam and Eve were in innocence, they knew no other voice but that of God. After their sin, they had knowledge of good and evil. The good being obedience to God and the evil obeying another voice other than that of God. When a child is born into this world, he is also in innocence, Jesus included. We, all of humanity, except for Jesus listened to the wrong voice, the tempter, and sinned against God. The serpent is in the garden dwelling in those who are practicing sin willfully.

[Jodi]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 24 2008,12:51)

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring. The adversary in Job was in alliance with God, he was a messenger of God, a Son of God, who's job was to roam the earth and watch over men.   The book of Job makes it clear that the messenger of God acting as an adversary to Job, was right, in that Job needed infliction to be refined. Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 25 2008,07:16) Throughout the book of Job it is made clear that Job's infliction came from God. This is an untrue statement! Would you rather believe the eyewitnesses of carnal men or the words of YHWH… And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although “THOU MOVEDST ME AGAINST HIM, TO DESTROY HIM WITHOUT CAUSE”. Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, BEHOLD, HE IS IN THINE HAND; “BUT SAVE HIS LIFE“. Job 2:6 WJ

Oh, so according to you WJ, when it fits YOUR theology, only the quoted words of God coming from the bible are true, but the rest of the bible is carnal man speaking and is a LIE??

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
The Spirit is the Word of God?
Man has a spirit that has been passed on from Adam and that goes back to God at death.

The Spirit of God is given to us from Jesus and abides in us forver as it did with Jesus forever uniting him with us as he is with God.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,13:22)

Hi 94, The Spirit is the Word of God? Man has a spirit that has been passed on from Adam and that goes back to God at death. The Spirit of God is given to us from Jesus and abides in us forver as it did with Jesus forever uniting him with us as he is with God.

Hi Nick:

The Spirit of God is His Spirit, the Spirit of the Father, (1 Co. 2:10-13), and He forms our spirit, the spirit of His children, within us by teaching us His Word through His Son and His Christ who has said to us:

Quote

Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

Quote

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

In Adam, the seed of Adam is his sperm, and the life of the flesh is in the blood.  The soul is dead to God through the spirit of disobedience or sin.  In Christ Jesus, the life of the soul is in the spirit of obedience to God's Word.

Adam did have the Spirit of God within him, and he was a living soul until he sinned and died spirtually and ulitmately, physically.  He was a son of God, but he lost his fellowship with God.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
We are not physically dead when the word is sown.
We have the breath of God through Adam.

Adam never was given the Spirit of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
The second Adam became for us a lifegiving Spirit.

The spirit of man returns to God but the Spirit of God is given without repentance and abides unto eternal life.

[chosenone]

Hi WJ.
You say, “You have a warped understanding of God if you believe God does these things to the righteous”.

His Son “Jesus” died a painfull, cruel, death. As was for most of His (Jesus) deciples, who also died violantly by human hands. He (God), could have prevented this, but did He?

Blessings.

Blessings.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2008,14:02)

Hi 94, We are not physically dead when the word is sown. We have the breath of God through Adam. Adam never was given the Spirit of God.

Hi Nick:

No, we are not physically dead when the gospel is preached to us, but our soul is dead to God because of sin. The life of our flesh is in the blood. If we are wounded and bleed to death, our body dies, and if we are dead to God in our tespasses, the soul will be destroyed either through the seven last plagues or at the second resurrection.

God breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils and he became a living soul. This is the Spirit of God that was given him. His soul was alive to God through that Spirit. Just as we who are born again Christians have the Spirit of our Father dwelling within us because we are the children of God. Adam was a child of God in innocence before his fall. At our birth, we do not have the Spirit of God dwelling within us. When we are born into this world, someone spanks us on the rear and we begin breathing oxygen. This is not the breath of God that Adam received. If we are born to Christian parents, they have the Spirit of God dwelling within them, and we are alive to God because of our parents, but when we become of age we have to make the decsision whether or not we will serve God or not. “Except a man be born of Water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kindgom of God”.

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