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Nick……..you need to clarify what or who the serpent is or what it is. I believe it is EVIL at work in the form of Knowledge. What do you think it is.
love and peace …………………………gene
GB,
We have heard all your own ideas on these matters.
But the Son of God told us about Satan.
We should listen to him.Nick….I agree we should to all seek to (understand) His words .
love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Gene, explain to me these verses.
Rev. 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Georg
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2008,10:03) Nick……..you need to clarify what or who the serpent is or what it is. I believe it is EVIL at work in the form of Knowledge. What do you think it is. love and peace …………………………gene
GB,
Is this the right approach?
Is this the right spiritual question?
Should we plumb the minds of men or enquire of scripture?Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 17 2008,14:44) Gene, explain to me these verses. Rev. 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Georg
Georg……first we need to know who is the old dragon or serpent and his messengers (or Angles) are. I will give you (MY) take on what i think it's saying. I could be wrong it Just my understanding on it because the scriptures does not make it clear.I believe EVIL always existed and will always exist, it is as much part of Life as GOOD is. They can not be separated from life because life contains them they (good and evil) are a creation og GOD Himself. And they are produced from the one tree.
Now with that said, before there were men on the earth Good and Evil existed in a state of opposition to one another from the day God created them even in the Heavens and when man came to be on the earth and wanted to be like GOD it was required for him to experience Evil as well as Good. Because true life did and will always consist of these opposite forces. And as Michael and His angles Concord EVIL and cast off evil from them, we too must struggle with these forces and master EVIL and Chose the GOOD, God has emerged us into an Evil World in order for us to taste EVIL first Hand and grow to Hate it and LOVE the GOOD.
This casting out on the earth took place in the beginning of HUMAN Existence and remains to this day. Those who are in Heaven have master Evil, and we must also. With the power of GOD we will.
Satan or serpent or dragon are terms that represent the whole of EVIL and His angles are the individual (WORDS or SPIRITS) which are from the Whole of EVIL.
Georg …..this is the way i understand it at this time.
love and peace to you and yours brother……………….gene
GB,
You say
“Now with that said, before there were men on the earth Good and Evil existed in a state of opposition to one another from the day God created them even in the Heavens “Where is this creation of amorphous evil and good to be in constant opposition written?
Not here
Is 45
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Sounds more like a yin yan philosophy.
Nick………Next you will be saying where is it written , that life is the opposite of Death or Up is the opposite of Down, or right is opposite of left, or hot is opposite of cold. or north is opposite of South, or East opposite of west, along with thousands of other then that are no written. Some things GOD gives us enough sense to KNOW. Nick if you don't know good and evil are opposites , that would make you dumber then a bag of Hammers. “O” thats right LOGIC you don't except. So unless it is written you don't believe it .
Sound like stupid to me, I believe i would rather sound like yin yan Brother
peace …………….gene
peace
Gene
If these scriptures don't make it clear, then what are you looking for to make it clear; a mudslide?
It says they were angels; aren't angels created spirit beings?Georg
Gene
If these scriptures don't make it clear, then what are you looking for to make it clear; a mudslide?
Georg
I have no idea how this double take happened, go back a page.
Goerg…….. I am not sure i am following you are we talking about the word Angles?…>Angles are (ministering) Spirits as scripture say, the question is what is a Spirit, as i have ask here several times, The only place i can find that defines Spirit is when Jesus said ” the (WORDS) i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT. So what is SPIRIT (WORDS) these are not beings, when we are told to try the (Spirits) we are being told to try the words . Now what is a (WORD) is it not the expression of our intellect or what we think. So we are ministered to by Words and these are ministering Spirits, GOD word is a ministering SPIRIT. God and his word are the same, God is a Spirit and ministers to us through His words. God's word is the mind of GOD and if we have his words abiding in us we have the mind of the anointing (Christ) . Also remember it says ” in the beginning was (the word) and the word was with God and the WORD (was) GOD. Also Jesus said GOD was Spirit and they who worship HIM must worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH, He could have Just as easily said God is the WORD and those who worship Him must worship in WORDS of TRUTH> Until i see a better explanation of the Word Spirit, this is the way i see it.
love to you and yours Georg…………gene
GB,
Your thoughts do not gel with scripture and that is why folks cannot accept them.
Spiritual understanding matches bible knowledge.
No intellect as Spirit in scripture.
Just in your ideas.Nick,
Is your MIND not intellect?
I showed you where the mind is compared to man's spirit within him.
Do you not believe scripture?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 19 2008,04:00)
Goerg…….. I am not sure i am following you are we talking about the word Angles?…>Angles are (ministering) Spirits as scripture say, the question is what is a Spirit, as i have ask here several times, The only place i can find that defines Spirit is when Jesus said ” the (WORDS) i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT. So what is SPIRIT (WORDS) these are not beings, when we are told to try the (Spirits) we are being told to try the words . Now what is a (WORD) is it not the expression of our intellect or what we think. So we are ministered to by Words and these are ministering Spirits, GOD word is a ministering SPIRIT. God and his word are the same, God is a Spirit and ministers to us through His words. God's word is the mind of GOD and if we have his words abiding in us we have the mind of the anointing (Christ) . Also remember it says ” in the beginning was (the word) and the word was with God and the WORD (was) GOD. Also Jesus said GOD was Spirit and they who worship HIM must worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH, He could have Just as easily said God is the WORD and those who worship Him must worship in WORDS of TRUTH> Until i see a better explanation of the Word Spirit, this is the way i see it.love to you and yours Georg…………gene
Hi GB
'BUT TO WHICH OF THE ANGELS SAID HE AT ANY TIME, SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL?” Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Heb 1:13, 14
You say…
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 19 2008,04:00)
Angles are (ministering) Spirits as scripture say, the question is what is a Spirit, as i have ask here several times,
Then you say…Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 19 2008,04:00)
So what is SPIRIT (WORDS) these are not beings, when we are told to try the (Spirits) we are being told to try the words . Now what is a (WORD) is it not the expression of our intellect or what we think. So we are ministered to by Words and these are ministering Spirits, GOD word is a ministering SPIRIT.
You say these Angels are “words”, so according to Heb 1:13 God spoke to “words” which you say are ministering spirits.Yet you have the nerve to say to NH…
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2008,15:05)
Nick if you don't know good and evil are opposites , that would make you dumber then a bag of Hammers. “O” thats right LOGIC you don't except. So unless it is written you don't believe it .Sound like stupid to me, I believe i would rather sound like yin yan Brother
You would have to erase a whole lot of scripture that shows that spirits are sentient beings, to believe that spirits are simply intellects or words as you say.
Is God who is Spirit a “word” or “intellect”, or maybe he is a bunch of words or intellects which would mean that we have recieved many spirits of God.
If we have recieved “one Spirit” and words are spirits, then that would mean that we have recieved “one word”.
And you think that NH sounds stupid?
Your constant name calling and patronizing attitude against others (especially NH) who do not agree with you is troubling.WJ
Nick, you say Gene's words are not scripture?
Quote God's word is the mind of GOD and if we have his words abiding in us we have the mind of the anointing (Christ) . 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (New International Version)
15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16″For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”[a] But we have the mind of Christ.Sounds like scripture to me?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 19 2008,06:26) Your constant name calling and patronizing attitude against others (especially NH) who do not agree with you is troubling.
This is true. I wish that Gene and Nick could debate with more respect towards one another. I respect them both and so it's hard for me to hear them treat each other poorly.Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 19 2008,06:31) Nick, you say Gene's words are not scripture? Quote God's word is the mind of GOD and if we have his words abiding in us we have the mind of the anointing (Christ) . 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (New International Version)
15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16″For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”[a] But we have the mind of Christ.Sounds like scripture to me?
Hi not3,
The Word of God is OF God.
It is not the mind of God though does reflect it.
It is not the Spirit of God though enlivened by it.Accuracy is essential
Gene
A lot hes been said since I read your post, and readied to post back.
Satan's angels fought, and Michal's angels fought. Angels are created spirit beings, I can't believe you have a problem understanding that.
When Jesus said, my words are spirit, he also said, the body prophets nothing; in other words, his words are food for the mind, the spirit. He also said, I'm the bread of life, he told the woman by the well, I'm the living water. How are you going to define water and bread?
That's all I need to say, Wj has filled in nicely.Georg
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 19 2008,04:00) Goerg…….. I am not sure i am following you are we talking about the word Angles?…>Angles are (ministering) Spirits as scripture say, the question is what is a Spirit, as i have ask here several times, The only place i can find that defines Spirit is when Jesus said ” the (WORDS) i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT. So what is SPIRIT (WORDS) these are not beings, when we are told to try the (Spirits) we are being told to try the words . Now what is a (WORD) is it not the expression of our intellect or what we think. So we are ministered to by Words and these are ministering Spirits, GOD word is a ministering SPIRIT. God and his word are the same, God is a Spirit and ministers to us through His words. God's word is the mind of GOD and if we have his words abiding in us we have the mind of the anointing (Christ) . Also remember it says ” in the beginning was (the word) and the word was with God and the WORD (was) GOD. Also Jesus said GOD was Spirit and they who worship HIM must worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH, He could have Just as easily said God is the WORD and those who worship Him must worship in WORDS of TRUTH> Until i see a better explanation of the Word Spirit, this is the way i see it. love to you and yours Georg…………gene
Gene –I agree with what some have said, I don't think you can say that because Jesus defined his words {rhema} are spirit, and that because some angels are ministering spirits, that all angels (messengers) are not beings but are words/intellect.
We are also told that some angels (messengers) are not spirit but flesh and blood people who Gods uses as a messenger.
Thats like saying because cats are animals and dogs are animals – cats must be dogs.
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