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Hi Jodi,
Even the psalms give him a mention.
Ps 109
6Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2008,14:02) Hi Jodi,
Job 1-2 is of the OT and shows the amazing powers of the being called Satan.
The adversary in Job and in Zacharia were angels of God, and thus being they were granted the powers of the Holy Spirit!Hi Jodi,
So the power of the Holy Spirit is given to angels to kill and destroy home and cause winds and boils?
Surely you are not speaking of the Spirit of Life?
This is new teachingQuote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2008,13:51) Hi Jodi,
Yes Satan controls carnal man.
Praise God for the freedom in Jesus.
Yes, the Carnal Mind controls the carnal man, but Jesus destroyed that enmity!
Hi Jodi,
ENMITY
From dictionary .comenmity
6 dictionary results for: enmity
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) – Cite This Source – Share This
en·mi·ty /ˈɛnmɪti/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[en-mi-tee] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ties. a feeling or condition of hostility; hatred; ill will; animosity; antagonism.So which hostility did Jesus destroy??
Between carnal man and his carnal mind??
This is getting wierd.
Hi Jodi,
“. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places. “
Are our enemies then men?
Are men not flesh and blood?
Or are our enemies evil angels?Hi jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,08:14) For he is our peace, the one who made both groups into one and who destroyed the middle wall of partition, the hostility, 2:15 when he nullified in his flesh the law of commandments in decrees. He did this to create in himself one new man30 out of two, thus making peace, 2:16 and to reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by which the hostility has been killed.
This is typical of how you have been misusing the scriptures.This scripture is speaking of Yeshua abolishing the law that separated the Jew and Gentiles through ordinances thereby bringing all men into one Body in Christ.
It has nothing to do with a carnal, sinful mind or Adamic nature that was in Yeshua.
Yeshua's death delivered us from the power of the commandment (the law) that slew us because of sin. The only way he could do that is to be sinless, perfect and holy.
Yeshua is the perfect second Adam that had no evil nature.
The temptations of Christ were from without and not from within as clearly shown in the wilderness experience.
You have no incident or scriptural proof that Yeshua was drawn away of his own lust.
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35
For he hath made him to be sin for us, “who knew no sin”; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor 5:21
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. Jn 14:30
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: “Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth”: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:21-24
The temptations Yeshua experienced as the above show were from without him and not from within him. Yeshua had no lust in himself. To say this is to say that he was a sinner. Yeshua challenged anyone who could convince him of sin.
If you say that Yeshua is the Word that was with God and the Word that was God and that Word was the Fathers “thought and plan” as you and GB say, that came in Yeshua then you are saying that the thought and plan of God was imperfect and left Yeshua with a sinful nature. Hogwash!
Yeshua is the Lamb of God, and the Lamb of God had to be without any blemish at all.
WJ
Jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
The bible clearly speaks of Kings dwelling in heaven and God bringing them down to earth. If you don't understand what that means, then I can see why it is you're such a puppet to the traditions of man.Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
You have no clear scripture that shows “kings in heaven being cast down”. If you are speaking of Lucifer, that is ambiguous.
The puppet is the one who is decieved by the god of this world. Satan is a master at twisting scriptures and especially at making himself unknown.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2008,14:11) Hi Jodi,
Really?
Is it written?
Nick you can't have it both ways,Is this true or is it not?
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Is this true or is it not?
Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Is this true or is it not?
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.Is this true or is it not?
James 1:4 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.Why, if it were an evil being outside of you causing you to sin, would Jesus say,
Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Eph 2:3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Nick how often in the bible do we see scripture speak in away that makes our bodies, our flesh, our nature an adversary to us?
Many, many times over. How often are we told that a sinful angel who has lost his place in heaven deceives our minds? Never, not even once.We shouldn't add to scripture either. Talk about deception. Don't people have the slightest idea what nature or carnal means?
The bible does not say that mankind sins because he is weak in letting a supernatural being influence him to do evil. The bible says that mankind is weak because his own nature is weak, this is specifically why Jesus says that sin comes from within.
It is utter deception to say that sin comes from within after it has been planted by an outside evil supernatural force.
Lu 22:3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.
We have been arguing over two different approaches to viewing this scripture.
The traditional view is that the adversary here is a fallen angel who has influenced the mind of Judas to betray Jesus.
On what grounds do people have from the bible to declare the adversary as such?
Another view is that the adversary is that which we are directly told is the adversary, 'the carnal mind is at enmity with God”, therefore what entered into the mind of Judas was his own evil desires, of which he followed and gave birth to sin.
I am simply defining the adversary according to the adversary given to us in the bible.
James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
Jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
Who is the one being deceptive?Who is the one trying to plead that false gods do exist?
The Old Testament is CLEAR, there is no other supernatural being in existence that has His powers.
Yes I see you are still living in the OT with no NT revelation. Yeshua came and revealed the Old in the New.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
The bible says that YHWH is the ONLY supernatural being who can bring darkness, calamity, pain, suffering, and indignation.So let me see if I understand. When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?
Lies!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2008,14:16) Hi Jodi,
So the power of the Holy Spirit is given to angels to kill and destroy home and cause winds and boils?
Surely you are not speaking of the Spirit of Life?
This is new teaching
No, this is the foundation of God's work on those who do not listen and follow His commandments.Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
Deut 28:15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country. 17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks. 19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out. 20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed. 25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.
God sends evil spirits upon man to create calamity.
Jud 9:23 and God sendeth an evil spirit between Abimelech and the masters of Shechem, and the masters of Shechem deal treacherously with Abimelech,
Jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,10:06) The traditional view is that the adversary here is a fallen angel who has influenced the mind of Judas to betray Jesus. On what grounds do people have from the bible to declare the adversary as such?
On the grounds that the same devil that influenced him, (which you say was within him) entered him.
And supper being ended, the devil having now “put into the heart” of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him; John 13:2
And after the sop “Satan entered” into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. John 13:27
Clearly showing the link of satan and the devil as the same.
Greek for “enter” is 'eiserchomai' which means…
1) to go out or come in: to enter
a) of men or animals, as into a house or a city
b) of Satan taking possession of the body of a person
c) of things: as food, that enters into the eater's mouth
But of course you know more that Yeshua and the Greek and Hebrew scholars!
WJ
Hi JOdi,
You now say
“No, this is the foundation of God's work on those who do not listen and follow His commandments.”
So it is not as a result of God anointing angels with His Spirit?
You seem confusedHi jodi
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,08:14) For he is our peace, the one who made both groups into one and who destroyed the middle wall of partition, the hostility, 2:15 when he nullified in his flesh the law of commandments in decrees. He did this to create in himself one new man30 out of two, thus making peace, 2:16 and to reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by which the hostility has been killed.
This is typical of how you have been misusing the scriptures.This scripture is speaking of Yeshua abolishing the law that separated the Jew and Gentiles through ordinances thereby bringing all men into one Body in Christ.
It has nothing to do with a carnal, sinful mind or Adamic nature that was in Yeshua.
Yeshua's death delivered us from the power of the commandment (the law) that slew us because of sin. The only way he could do that is to be sinless, perfect and holy.
Yeshua is the perfect second Adam that had no evil nature.
The temptations of Christ were from without and not from within as clearly shown in the wilderness experience.
You have no incident or scriptural proof that Yeshua was drawn away of his own lust.
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35
For he hath made him to be sin for us, “who knew no sin”; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor 5:21
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. Jn 14:30
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: “Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth”: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:21-24
The temptations Yeshua experienced as the above show were from without him and not from within him. Yeshua had no lust in himself. To say this is to say that he was a sinner. Yeshua challenged anyone who could convince him of sin.
If you say that Yeshua is the Word that was with God and the Word that was God and that Word was the Fathers “thought and plan” as you and GB say, that came in Yeshua then you are saying that the thought and plan of God was imperfect and left Yeshua with a sinful nature. Hogwash!
Yeshua is the Lamb of God, and the Lamb of God had to be without any blemish at all.
SO TELL US JODI OR GB, DID YESHUA HAVE A “SINFULL NATURE”?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2008,15:09) Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
Who is the one being deceptive?Who is the one trying to plead that false gods do exist?
The Old Testament is CLEAR, there is no other supernatural being in existence that has His powers.
Yes I see you are still living in the OT with no NT revelation. Yeshua came and revealed the Old in the New.
Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,09:01)
The bible says that YHWH is the ONLY supernatural being who can bring darkness, calamity, pain, suffering, and indignation.So let me see if I understand. When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?
Lies!
WJ
WJ, give me a break.Oh, so according to YOU WJ, the Old Testament is just a bunch of LIES?
Why don't you spend a little more time trying to understand a person's position before you say such stupid stuff like, “When a little girl is being raped and experiences pain and suffering and calamity and darkness then YHWH did that to her?”
I really don't know what to say to you right now.
I am completely baffled!
Did I say that God is to blame for people's sins?
The Old Testament establishes that there is No other Supernatural being that can bring on darkness and create calamity. He controls the weather bringing on famines and floods, He creates diseases and inflicts them.
This is completely different from the darkness of sin, which comes from within man as Jesus tells us. A man who rapes has several problems going on inside him, one being that he cannot control his over the top desire for authority and domination.
Hi wJ,
Was Jesus the Son of Man?
As a son of Man did he have any advantage over us?
Was Mary perfect also so that the genes of his flesh were not contaminated and overcoming easy?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2008,15:24) Hi JOdi,
You now say
“No, this is the foundation of God's work on those who do not listen and follow His commandments.”
So it is not as a result of God anointing angels with His Spirit?
You seem confused
I now say what, as opposed to what??What is the IT here when you say,” So it is not as a result of God anointing angels…”
Hi JOdi,
You said
“The adversary in Job and in Zacharia were angels of God, and thus being they were granted the powers of the Holy Spirit! “Do expound from scripture this new idea
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