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David……if it were not predestination then it would have to be SELF SALVATION. I gave you scriptures that showed predestination, which one of them do you disagree with then. I realize you don't come right out and say that we are saved by our choices but are you not implying it, you seem to think its your (CHOICES) that makes you acceptable to GOD. Your so-called (FREE WILL) right, and you make a case that everyone has to chose for themselves if they are going to follow God, then ultimately that is saying it's by your works you are saved. God takes (FULL) credit for our Salvation, not a partial credit for it, but full credit. In fact if the truth was known we are probably more of a hindrance then a help. Faith is a vital part of the salvation process, but even that is given by GOD. We need to remember that (IF) we are walking and producing the fruits of the Spirit in our lives , It is the SPIRIT producing it not US. The problem is the CARNAL MIND wants to take credit for it own salvation or at least part of it. IMO
peace………………gene
peace……….gene
Hi Jodi,
You say
“Satan is said to be the man who has in mind the things of men.
Revelations 12 shows the old serpent and Satan to be one and the same.Therefore we can conclude that Eve was having a conversation with a human who has in mind the things of humans. “
So your FALSE LOGIC has led you to the amazing thought that ADAM and EVE were not the first humans?
Quote David……if it were not predestination then it would have to be SELF SALVATION. No it doesn't.
Imagine we're not predistined. Imagine God tells us what he requires in a book. Imagine that some of us listen to God and others disregard his words. God, through his grace, saves those who love him.
He didn't have to. And it was underved on our parts, only by the grace of God.
So now, can you explain whyQuote f it were not predestination then it would have to be SELF SALVATION. Quote I realize you don't come right out and say that we are saved by our choices but are you not implying it, you seem to think its your (CHOICES) that makes you acceptable to GOD. One person chooses to love God and follow God and walk in his son's footsteps. Those are his choices.
Another chooses to completely disregard the love God showed and attacks and persecutes those who love God.
This does not mean we are saved by our choices. Our choices don't save us. God is our Savior, through Jesus. But who will God want to save–the person who loved him and his principles, or the person who chose to hate God?
Quote then ultimately that is saying it's by your works you are saved.
See above.David……. you evidently have not read all the scriptures i have quoted to you or you just choose to ignore them and create this imagine if you can scenario , I can imagine all kinds of things to if my own theology as you are , but where does scripture support that, it doesn't. Scripture say the opposite that the carnal mind would never chose God on it own. “the carnal mind is an (enmity) of God is not subject to His laws neither indeed (CAN BE). God Love or power is not limited man Carnal response at all. “for i will take out of them the heart of stone and (GIVE THEM) a heart of Flesh.” God know their is not One righteous or good man on this earth , it is when He puts himself in the man he can walk right, it has nothing to do with the man's self works at all. Even Jesus said why call me Good , there is (ONLY ONE THATS GOOD) and that is GOD>
David you need to read the prodigal son again and the maybe you might see who God wants to save, and I think he said He loved the whole world and Gave Jesus for the sins of the (WHOLE WORLD) not just a pick few . What do you do with the scripture that say the Shepard left the 99 and went after the one lost. I afraid you are caught up in you organization that exclusivities it self, as all organizations do.
GB,
The Prodigal son WALKED back home
Then God came along the road to meet him.
But God did not go to the pigsty to rescue him.There is no suggestion that those who do not WALK in repentance are saved in Jesus.
Quote David……. you evidently have not read all the scriptures i have quoted to you or you just choose to ignore them Truthfully, I haven't read them. Normally I would. I've been crazy busy.
Let's start with this:
“Scripture say the opposite that the carnal mind would never chose God on it own.”Which scripture are you referring to?
Quote and I think he said He loved the whole world and Gave Jesus for the sins of the (WHOLE WORLD) not just a pick few . Yes, so the whole world could have this undeserved opportunity.
Quote What do you do with the scripture that say the Shepard left the 99 and went after the one lost.
How does it conflict with my belief?GB
You say
“”the carnal mind is an (enmity) of God is not subject to His laws neither indeed (CAN BE). God Love or power is not limited man Carnal response at all. “So the INTELLECT of man is a near useless obstruction.
Then
“for i will take out of them the heart of stone and (GIVE THEM) a heart of Flesh.”Ahhh the heart is where the action is.
Hi,
Lk22
3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.So Judas was not the Adversary that was IN HIM.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 12 2008,11:38) GB
You say
“”the carnal mind is an (enmity) of God is not subject to His laws neither indeed (CAN BE). God Love or power is not limited man Carnal response at all. “So the INTELLECT of man is a near useless obstruction.
Then
“for i will take out of them the heart of stone and (GIVE THEM) a heart of Flesh.”Ahhh the heart is where the action is.
Nick….scripture say that not me, either you believe it or not that your choice .God changes the intellect which changes the Heart they can not be separated. The mind and the heart are one. A hard Heart rejectes God Spiritual (intellect) but God changes it to accept the Godly influence in the mind and therefore changes the Heart and the way we think is at the same time changed. IMO
Nick……..anytime a person thinks by His Carnal nature he is a Satan, doesn't matter if it;s Judas or Peter or you it's the same operation taking place in the man, it's not some separate being Jumping in and out of him, if that were the case then Judas or Peter could not be held responsible for the actions and no one else could be either, Seeing it this devil being causing everyone to sin. Go reread what was already posted on the subject and this time think about it , you may gain some incite you need in order to understand what scripture means regarding devils, Satan's, mystics, etc.
Nick….When Did Satan inter PETER and when did (HE) leave Him. If we believe as you then why not say the devil made me do it. Is that what you say when you do wrong thinks. The DEVIL MADE ME DO IT< Why didn't Peter say that and Could not the Pharisees say the same thing after all they were the children of the devil right. And Peter was wrong when He told them (THEY) crucified Jesus right after the devil made them do it so there was no need for them to repent of anything , because according to your theology it was Satan who was responsible for it, not them. God can not hold us responsible for any evil then because it was all the devils fault. Do yopu see how foolish your argument really is.
GB,
It is just that your rationalisations are contradicting scripture
so please explain why scripture is wrong and you are right.GB,
Scripture is sacred and far above the carnal ways of men.
So surely you prefer what scripture says?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2008,14:04) Nick……..anytime a person thinks by His Carnal nature he is a Satan, doesn't matter if it;s Judas or Peter or you it's the same operation taking place in the man, it's not some separate being Jumping in and out of him, if that were the case then Judas or Peter could not be held responsible for the actions and no one else could be either, Seeing it this devil being causing everyone to sin. Go reread what was already posted on the subject and this time think about it , you may gain some incite you need in order to understand what scripture means regarding devils, Satan's, mystics, etc.
GB,
I do not see JUMPING DEMONS in scripture.But Jesus did cast them out of men frequently and warned they may enter again.
Then we have the example of satan entering Judas-but you cannot accept these teachings from the one who was the mouthpiece of God?
Nick……..my rationalization are exactly as scripture say, it your lack of scriptural understanding that s the problem, you see things through fleshly eyes the Carnal mind can not comprehend the things of God it can not see the spiritual content of things , it must always see everything as literal and has not scriptural comprehension. And you are right Scripture is sacred and far above the Carnal mind of man.That our problem here you just do not see the spiritual side of what is written . IMO
Nick….a parrot can parrot any thing but he has noi understanding of what he is parroting ,Anyone who has no rationalisation is what i would call a idiot. A person who can not rationalize truth doesn't understand it, he can only parrot it. Total void of sense. Is that what people lead by the spirit are to you. I think we need to break off this discussion it going no where. IMO
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