- This topic has 2,237 replies, 40 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi GB,
Please use the language of scripture.
Adjusted or adapted language is used to add concepts
Those who use other language usually have a different doctrinal agenda.Quote And what about When Jesus said GOD is A SPIRIT and He also the WORDS I am Telling YOU (ARE) SPIRIT. GB, you should really start quoting your scriptures. It would make it so much easier to believe you and understand what you're saying.
Quote (david @ Sep. 02 2008,10:36) Quote And what about When Jesus said GOD is A SPIRIT and He also the WORDS I am Telling YOU (ARE) SPIRIT. GB, you should really start quoting your scriptures. It would make it so much easier to believe you and understand what you're saying.
David ……..what do you call what i just wrote then is it not scripture. You need to try to quite trying to appear pious and think about what is said for yourself and not through the eyes of the JW's. Is not saying Jesus is said in scripture to be a mouthpiece false and if not please show us where it Say's Jesus is a mouthpiece anywhere in the bible. Cast the beam out of your own eye brother. IMOpeace………..gene
Quote David ……..what do you call what i just wrote then is it not scripture. What I'm saying is, GB, it would be nice for the rest of us if you did this “(Mat 1:2)” after you quote Matthew 1:2, for example. It would save the rest of us a lot of time.
Quote Is not saying Jesus is said in scripture to be a mouthpiece false and if not please show us where it Say's Jesus is a mouthpiece anywhere in the bible.
If you just looked in any dictionary, and understood what a mouthpiece actually means, you'd find many many many scriptures that speak of him as a spokesman for God. (Do you need another list?)
Since the dictionaries I looked in all say “mouthpiece” can mean “spokesman,” I find your arguments strange.And GB, one more time: You said God was a mouthpiece. I was only replying to your and this mistake, when I attempted to explain that based on what the word actually means, in reality (not what you think it means) Jesus was a spokesman (mouthpiece) for God:
Quote JOHN 3:34
“For the one whom God sent forth [Jesus] speaks the sayings of God. . . .”JOHN 12:49
“I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.”Jesus was clearly a representative sent forth who spoke what the Father wanted him to speak….hence the very definition of a spokesperson, or mouthpiece.
GB, I just think your understanding of “mouthpiece” is very different from what the dictionaries and what I understand it to be. It means a “spokesperson” which Jesus was. He was the ultimate spokesman for God.
DEUTERONOMY 18:18
“A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him.”If God puts his words in someone else's mouth, that makes them a mouthpiece. It does not make God a mouthpiece.
DEUTERONOMY 18:18
“A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him.”I'm wondering who you think that prophet is. Jehovah would “put [his] words in his mouth.”
Since it is Jehovah's words that are coming out of this prophets mouth, that would make him a …..
DING DING DING…
“Mouthpiece.”
David……my point is you are saying i don't quote scripture and in fact to use words like describing my savior Jesus as some kind of MOUTHPIECE if find disrespectful and demeaning. Because my dictionary say that a mouthpiece is a part of an instrument that fits into the mouth and that is the primary meaning of the word and is used only as a slang to imply representation and is not the exact meaning of the word , not to mention it is not even in scripture at all no where. And you come back and infer i don't quote scripture when you seem to use scripture any you chose. imo
Quote David……my point is you are saying i don't quote scripture No, I'm sorry. I'm just asking you to name the scriptures.
Quote my point is you are saying i don't quote scripture and in fact to use words like describing my savior Jesus as some kind of MOUTHPIECE if find disrespectful and demeaning.
This began with you saying God was a mouthpiece…..To all……..the subject here is supposed to be about Satan, Is there a REAL LIVE BEING KNOWN AS A SATAN, if So some one please tell us what he looks like and is he flesh and blood and does He have a body at all and does he have a whole bunch a little demons working for him and go around jumping in and out of people, as so many “Christian” believe, Or is SATAN just a term for anyone who is a ADVERSARY to God. and are devils Just people with that adversarial spirit in them. And therefor anyone could be a devil or a Satan as Jesus called the Pharisee and Said Peter was SATAN. This is the question and subject. Please try to stay on subject and get off personal attacks Please.
peace………..gene
Quote David….what do you do with where Jesus said the Father was (IN) him. Seeing you believe He as a person has a abode somewhere. And what about When Jesus said GOD is A SPIRIT and He also the WORDS I am Telling YOU (ARE) SPIRIT. And I assure you what i am saying is coming from the bible. And why does it say NO ONE has seen GOD'S form at any time, could it be because He doesn't have a form we can see. SO your saying when Jesus said the FATHER was in HIM he really did not mean it then right? Because thats not possible because he is a physical being some where right, that seems to be you theology. For example, GB, you mention many scriptures in here, but I'd love to know what they are a little easier.
Second, I never said or implied he was a “physical being.” Here's what the scriptures do say:
Jesus “entered . . . into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.” (Hebrews 9:24)
So we learn a couple things from this scripture. God is a person. He has a place of residence–heaven. Is this not what the scripture tells us?Quote So you don't believe that God is OMNIPRESENT then right, because He is a person and lives somewhere in a certain place right, then tell us where that is please.
See Heb 9:24 again. It's above.Or, if you prefer, here's another scripture:
“Do look down from your holy dwelling, the heavens, and bless your people.”—Deuteronomy 26:15.So, now do you know where God dwells?
Quote For God does (NOT) dwell in buildings made with Hands, But He conceder's us temples where He dwells,” no you not that you are the temple of God” Should we take this out of our bibles then David,
GB, I believe you are somewhat misquoting this scripture. Of course, I don't know off hand which scripture it is, because you didn't mention that part. I'll go find it. Eph 2:22.“In union with him YOU, too, are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit.”
“to inhabit by spirit.” That's the part you left out. God himself doesn't live in us. But his holy spirit can. Or, people sometimes say: “I'm there in spirit.” They are not actually there. This is another reason why it's so important to actually quote the scriptures. Pieces are left out.
Quote Is there a REAL LIVE BEING KNOWN AS A SATAN, if So some one please tell us what he looks like and is he flesh and blood and does He have a body at all and does he have a whole bunch a little demons working for him and go around jumping in and out of people, as so many “Christian” believe, Yes, he's real. Although he's good at “misleading” people (Rev 12:9) He's even mislead some into not believing he exists. Like a master criminal, it's better for himself if people don't know he exists.
He looks like any other angel. It's an irrelevant question. What does God look like? Satan's a spirit creature.
So, no, he doesn't have flesh and blood.
There are demons . I don't know if I'd call them little.
And, unfortunately, the Bible doesn't allow for the idea that demons is another word for sicknesses. (Mr 1:32, 34.)
GB, who is the “ruler of the world” that Jesus referred to three times?
Jesus said he was coming and had no hold on him. He said the ruler of the world would be judged. Who was/is this ruler?Anyway, good place to start would be with the scriptures in question:
1 CHRONICLES 21:1
“And SATAN proceeded to stand up against Israel and to incite David to number Israel.”JOB 1:6-9
“Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even SATAN proceeded to enter right among them. Then Jehovah said to SATAN: “Where do you come from?” At that SATAN answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” And Jehovah went on to say to SATAN: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” At that SATAN answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God?”JOB 1:12
“Accordingly Jehovah said to SATAN: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So SATAN went out away from the person of Jehovah.”JOB 2:1-4
“Afterward it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and SATAN also proceeded to enter right among them to take his station before Jehovah. Then Jehovah said to SATAN: “Just where do you come from?” At that SATAN answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” And Jehovah went on to say to SATAN: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad? Even yet he is holding fast his integrity, although you incite me against him to swallow him up without cause.” But SATAN answered Jehovah and said: “Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul.”JOB 2:7
“So SATAN went out away from the person of Jehovah and struck Job with a malignant boil from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.”ZECHARIAH 3:1-2
“And he proceeded to show me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah, and SATAN standing at his right hand in order to resist him. Then [the angel of] Jehovah said to SATAN: “Jehovah rebuke you, O SATAN, yes, Jehovah rebuke you, he who is choosing Jerusalem! Is this one not a log snatched out of the fire?””MATTHEW 4:10
“Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, SATAN! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’””MATTHEW 12:26
“In the same way, if SATAN expels SATAN, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?”MATTHEW 16:23
“But, turning his back, he said to Peter: “Get behind me, SATAN! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.””MARK 1:13
“So he continued in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by SATAN, and he was with the wild beasts, but the angels were ministering to him.”MARK 3:23
“So, after calling them to him, he began to say to them with illustrations: “How can SATAN expel SATAN?”MARK 3:26
“Also, if SATAN has risen up against himself and become divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.”MARK 4:15
“These, then, are the ones alongside the road where the word is sown; but as soon as they have heard [it] SATAN comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.”MARK 8:33
“He turned, looked at his disciples and rebuked Peter, and said: “Get behind me, SATAN, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.””LUKE 10:18
“At that he said to them: “I began to behold SATAN already fallen like lightning from heaven.”LUKE 11:18
“So if SATAN is also divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? Because YOU say I expel the demons by means of Beeĺzebub.”LUKE 13:16
“Was it not due, then, for this woman who is a daughter of Abraham, and whom SATAN held bound, look! eighteen years, to be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?””LUKE 22:3
“But SATAN entered into Judas, the one called Iscaŕiot, who was numbered among the twelve;”LUKE 22:31
““Simon, Simon, look! SATAN has demanded to have YOU men to sift YOU as wheat.”JOHN 13:27
“And after the morsel then SATAN entered into the latter. Jesus, therefore, said to him: “What you are doing get done more quickly.””ACTS 5:3
“But Peter said: “Ananías, why has SATAN emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field?”ACTS 26:18
“to open their eyes, to turn them from darkness to light and from the authority of SATAN to God, in order for them to receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by [their] faith in me.’”ROMANS 16:20
“For his part, the God who gives peace will crush SATAN under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.”1 CORINTHIANS 5:5
“YOU hand such a man over to SATAN for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.”1 CORINTHIANS 7:5
“Do not be depriving each other [of it], except by mutual consent for an appointed time, that YOU may devote time to prayer and may come together again, that SATAN may not keep tempting YOU for YOUR lack of self-regulation.”2 CORINTHIANS 2:11
“that we may not be overreached by SATAN, for we are not ignorant of his designs.”2 CORINTHIANS 11:14
“And no wonder, for SATAN himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.”2 CORINTHIANS 12:7
“just because of the excess of the revelations. Therefore, that I might not feel overly exalted, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, an angel of SATAN, to keep slapping me, that I might not be overly exalted.”1 THESSALONIANS 2:18
“For this reason we wanted to come to YOU, yes, I Paul, both once and a second time, but SATAN cut across our path.”2 THESSALONIANS 2:9
“But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of SATAN with every powerful work and lying signs and portents”1 TIMOTHY 1:2
“to Timothy, a genuine child in the faith: May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”1 TIMOTHY 5:15
“Already, in fact, some have been turned aside to follow SATAN.”REVELATION 2:9
“‘I know your tribulation and poverty—but you are rich—and the blasphemy by those who say they themselves are Jews, and yet they are not but are a synagogue of SATAN.”REVELATION 2:13
“‘I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of SATAN is; and yet you keep on holding fast my name, and you did not deny your faith in me even in the days of Ańtipas, my witness, the faithful one, who was killed by YOUR side, where SATAN is dwelling.”REVELATION 2:24
““‘However, I say to the rest of YOU who are in Thyatíra, all those who do not have this teaching, the very ones who did not get to know the “deep things of SATAN,” as they say: I am not putting upon YOU any other burden.”REVELATION 3:9
“Look! I will give those from the synagogue of SATAN who say they are Jews, and yet they are not but are lying—look! I will make them come and do obeisance before your feet and make them know I have loved you.”REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called DEVIL and SATAN, who is mislead
ing the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”REVELATION 20:7
“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, SATAN will be let loose out of his prison,”“DEVIL” occurs:
MATTHEW 4:1
“Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness to be tempted by the DEVIL.”MATTHEW 4:5
“Then the DEVIL took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him upon the battlement of the temple”MATTHEW 4:8
“Again the DEVIL took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory,”MATTHEW 4:11
“Then the DEVIL left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.”MATTHEW 13:39
“and the enemy that sowed them is the DEVIL. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels.”MATTHEW 25:41
““Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the DEVIL and his angels.”LUKE 4:2
“for forty days, while being tempted by the DEVIL. Furthermore, he ate nothing in those days, and so, when they were concluded, he felt hungry.”LUKE 4:3
“At this the DEVIL said to him: “If you are a son of God, tell this stone to become a loaf of bread.””LUKE 4:6
“and the DEVIL said to him: “I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it.”LUKE 4:14
“Now Jesus returned in the power of the spirit into Gaĺilee. And good talk concerning him spread out through all the surrounding country.”LUKE 8:12
“Those alongside the road are the ones that have heard, then the DEVIL comes and takes the word away from their hearts in order that they may not believe and be saved.”JOHN 8:44
“YOU are from YOUR father the DEVIL, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].”JOHN 13:2
“So, while the evening meal was going on, the DEVIL having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscaŕiot, the son of Simon, to betray him,”ACTS 10:38
“namely, Jesus who was from Naźareth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the DEVIL; because God was with him.”ACTS 13:10
“and said: “O man full of every sort of fraud and every sort of villainy, you son of the DEVIL, you enemy of everything righteous, will you not quit distorting the right ways of Jehovah?”EPHESIANS 4:27
“neither allow place for the DEVIL.”EPHESIANS 6:11
“Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the DEVIL;”1 TIMOTHY 3:6
“not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up [with pride] and fall into the judgment passed upon the DEVIL.”1 TIMOTHY 3:7
“Moreover, he should also have a fine testimony from people on the outside, in order that he might not fall into reproach and a snare of the DEVIL.”2 TIMOTHY 2:26
“and they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the DEVIL, seeing that they have been caught alive by him for the will of that one.”HEBREWS 2:14
“Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the DEVIL;”JAMES 4:7
“Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the DEVIL, and he will flee from YOU.”1 PETER 5:8
“Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the DEVIL, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone].”1 JOHN 3:8
“He who carries on sin originates with the DEVIL, because the DEVIL has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the DEVIL.”1 JOHN 3:10
“The children of God and the children of the DEVIL are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother.”JUDE 9
“But when Míchael the archangel had a difference with the DEVIL and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.””REVELATION 2:10
“Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The DEVIL will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.”REVELATION 12:4
“and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child.”REVELATION 12:12
“On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the DEVIL has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.””REVELATION 20:10
“And the DEVIL who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.Here's a good place to start:
REVELATION 12:9
“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called DEVIL and SATAN, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”Yes, Satan appears to have angels under his control. At least, according to the Bible.
MATTHEW 25:41
““Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the DEVIL and his angels.”Again, we see that the Devil appears to have spirit followers.
JAMES 4:7
“Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the DEVIL, and he will flee from YOU.”1 PETER 5:8
“Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the DEVIL, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone].”How else can these be understood?
Hi GB,
Whatever.
Thanks David for revealing the teachings of Jesus Christ, the truth.
He was inspired by God in all he said and did and his words are eternally true, far ahead of any intellectual.David …….My bible says Heb 9:24 for Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figure of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in presents of God for Us. Question do you see the word person there or did you look and find that word as a meaning that (can be used) and simply us it in place or presents to fit your theology. What good is it to ask me to quote more Scripture when you just simply change a meaning to suite what you want it to say, by going to some dictionary and looking for just some meaning to give you some support even when the text does not say that. The question and parts of the scripture were sufficient for the debate and if you cant give and ansewr don't side track by saying i am not giving you sufficient scripture that a cop out all “RELIGIOUS” people use when they cant give a good answer or they began to attack or accuse the person who disagrees with them.
IMO………….gene
David….Good post now lets see if we can understand it. Lets start with just a few scriptures. John 8:44 …> you are of YOUR FATHER the devil and, the LUSTS of your Father You WILL DO. He was a murderer from the beginning (CAIN), and abode not in the truth, Because the truth was not in Him >(HOLY SPIRIT) as it is in those who have it,> When He (CARNAL MAN) speaks a lie, he (CARNAL MAN) speaks of or FROM HIS OWN SELF, For he is a liar and the FATHER of IT>This is the way i understand this sectipture.
Act 13:9….> And said, O fill of all subtlety and all mischief, thou (CHILD) of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord. Question who was the person was it the devil or His child if you say he was a man then that devil was a man. That had was contrary to GOD and it was the spirit (intellect) of Satan that was in him not some external being of some king Man's carnal mature is both evil and is an enimity for God His Carnal nature is the devils. And He is every where in this earth because a Man without the Spirit of truth in Him is as He was at the garden in the beginning and was a liar and a murder and thief. He Has gotten all this from the world and indeed contrils the world with His evil nature in him, man is the devils, not some separate being jumping in Him, Just SPIRIT OF EVIL going into him producing all the evil he does, and therefore men are the childern of the devil and themselves are devils and do the deed of the devil. If all the evil done in the world is caused by a devil outside of the man then man is not responsible for any sin then, because he can say the devil made me do it and would be right. Was Peter responsible for acting as an adversary or some other being, Was Judas responsible for what He did or some other being, is all of man kinds evil the result of some other being and therefor man should not be responsible for any sin then.
I John 3:10……….> In this is the Children of GOD are manifested and the Children of the Devil whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither is he that loves not his brother.
Notice the Children of Men are not mentioned , why, i believe it's because there is only two choices and that the devil is comprised of the children of men who are by nature the children of the devil. The devil i believe is not external of the person but internal in the person through His Carnal nature which He received from the world he was born into. IMO
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
