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- July 22, 2008 at 6:35 pm#98614JodiParticipant
WJ, you said, “Sicknesses, mental illnesses, infections and the like do not have a kingdom, nor does a single man or corporate man have a kingdom called the kingdom of darkness in which he rules. Nor does man know apart from a supernatural revelation from a demon or unclean spirits or the Holy Spirit that Yeshua is the Son of God.
First and foremost where is this supernatural revelation from a demon to mankind that Yeshua is the Son of God?
Many people said that they believed in the Son of God and that they did works for Yeshua in his name. Yeshua also said to some people who said that they ‘knew him and followed him,’ that he did not know them.
Man’s words are often lies. When Yeshua told Peter that he was blessed because the Father revealed to him that Yeshua was indeed the Son of God, is a separate case all together, from anyone else calling out to Yeshua that he is the Son of God.
WJ, do you REALLY think that all instances in the bible or those accepting the word of the bible that when they say that Jesus is the Son of God, that the Father in every instance REVEALED it to them? That would be quite naïve now wouldn’t it?
Just because the unclean spirits say, 'you are the Son of God,' does not mean in anyway that they were like Simon Peter, being revealed things by God the Father.
Matthew 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
—————-
Mark 3:10 For He healed many, so that as many as had afflictions pressed about Him to touch Him. 11 And the unclean spirits, whenever they saw Him, fell down before Him and cried out, saying, “You are the Son of God.” 12 But He sternly warned them that they should not make Him known.Why did Yeshua not want the unclean spirits to make him known, I don't know that is not my issue of concern here. We see that Yeshua didn't want the man who was unclean from Leprosy to talk either.
Matthew 8:1 When he came down from the mountainside, large crowds followed him. 2 A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.” 3 Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” Immediately he was cured of his leprosy. 4 Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”
————————It might help for you to understand WJ, that kingdom is representative of not specifically being a PLACE, but to have rule or dominion. There are many things in our lives that can have rulership over us. This can be anything from God, to another human being, such as a husband or boss, our work could even be considered a person’s kingdom of darkness.
What does the bible tell us specifically that has rule and dominion over us?
We are constantly told that we are slaves of sin.
We are never told that we are slaves of other beings of which YHWH created and fell from following His authority, and are now living in a secret kingdom of darkness that rules over earth. That is completely absurd, and the scriptures that people use to try and defend that man made story are being completely misinterpreted.
Case in point would be Ephesians 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient
WJ, you don’t bother to read before or after, or you do and are completely blind to what it tells you, because your too busy forcing verse 2 to fit your man made story, to not let the rest of the scriptures tell you exactly what it represents.
When a person reads all of Ephesians 2, is the message about watching out for a hidden celestial world of darkness that has power of man and earth?
Is the message in Ephesians 2 telling man that if he doesn’t stay on guard a celestial dark kingdom will influence him to sin?
Ephesians 2 tells us that man is dead because of his transgressions and sins.
Open your eyes and ears WJ, THINK about what this scripture is telling you and step away from your man made stories, ………Ephesians 2:2…… the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
By nature we WERE children of wrath. Genesis tells us that God PUT enmity into the serpent’s seed. Our nature is to follow the creation and not the Creator. Our bellies cleave to the earth, instead of looking up to God. The earth is in a state of survival. Man is cursed more like any animal because his mind is consciously aware of death. By nature we are drawn to serve our flesh. God has put us through great testing, and in the end we will triumph and our reward will be that He will destroy this enmity, which we know He already has in Yeshua. Learning to conquer our flesh teaches us so many valuable lessons, compassion, patience, kindness, forgiveness, service, selflessness and love. So even though God broughth us the darkness of death we will be formed into creatures of light from what we learned from it.
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
What was the barrier, what was the wall of hostility? Christ abolished in his flesh the law, which was how our sins were counted. Christ’s purpose was not to come and destroy some hidden celestial dark kingdom, but to create in himself a new man from the old man.
Ro 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Eph 4:22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
Does the old man have anything to do with being drawn away and enticed by a celestial dark kingdom? No it is his own body of sin and his own lusts that draw him.
Interesting how devil we know means a slanderer or liar, and here we see that lies are deeds of the old man. Why is man a devil, a liar? Why does a person lie? Does a man lie because he selfishly serves his flesh over others? Yes, but some want to say that a man is the son of a devil because a hiding celestial being is drawing him to be a liar. What absolute nonsense. How more pathetic is a man who not only lies, but says he does so because it is not forces within his own nature causing him to do so, but some other being calling him to do so. Man would rather play dumb, then admit that he is by nature a child of wrath, and how deceitful and convenient it is for those who try and claim that both are true.
Luke 11:33 “No one, when he has lit a lamp, puts it in a secret place or under a basket, but on a lampstand, that those who come in may see the light. 34 The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore, when your eye is good, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is bad, your body also is full of darkness. 35 Therefore take heed t
hat the light which is in you is not darkness. 36 If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, the whole body will be full of light, as when the bright shining of a lamp gives you light.”What does the bible tell us specifically that has rule and dominion over us? What is the kingdom of darkness of that which we serve?
Ro 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Ro 6:17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
Ro 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Paul makes it pretty obvious that we dwell under the rulership and dominion of sin, and thus the KINGDOM of SIN.
Ro 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
We are slaves of uncleanness.
Not only is our sin unclean, but the punishments of which God has given people and their ancestors to inherit are unclean as well. God’s punishments are MARKS showing the uncleanness of man. Diseases and sicknesses are for those who understand biology, living organisms many of which need a host containing water to live and breed, many of which travel through the air and enter our nose, take a hold of the structures within our body and LIVE and DWELL and reproduce. If people don’t know much about bacteria, viruses, protozoa, fungi, DNA or RNA, I suggest they do some reading on it.
There is the unclean man who is such in his sins, and then there is the unclean man who is such because he carries an unclean spirit, or living organism, that affects his body in a negative way. These living organisms, which can travel through the air and affect plants, animals and humans alike, are responsible for causing in humans to do such things as convulse, be blind, deaf, mute, dumb, as well as, have delusions, distorted perceptions, multipersonalities, hallucinations, illogical thinking, disorganized thoughts, change in voice, change in gate, personality change, muscle twitching…… you get the point.
These living organisms which God created to inflict man and overtake or possess man’s body and mind, were in the time of the Gospels known as daimons, or unclean spirits. The Greeks in their paganism believed that these unclean spirits were from false gods. During the time of the Gospels the word daimon did not refer in anyway as representing fallen beings of YHWH’s creation. They represented a force of infliction to man, which the pagans attributed to being from gods.
Not only does the bible not substantiate any sort of living celestial force with powers to inflict man or possess him, the bible as well does not substantiate any sort of hidden kingdom of darkness that thinks it can go against God on behalf of manipulating humans. This is nothing but speculation built on faulty biblical interpretations.
Ro 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Ro 6:22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
1Co 7:23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 12:45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
Believing in Yeshua is believing in eternal life. We can see that to live in darkness is to live in the shadow of death, always fearing it and allowing our flesh to be slaves of it, because it is our knowledge and fear of death that draws our flesh to sin.
Luke 1:76 And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, 77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God, With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us; 79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace.”
Acts 26:17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'
How does Jesus turn people from darkness to light? Through the knowledge of the resurrection! How does Jesus turn people away from the power of the adversary? Well if the adversary represents the mind that is a slave to sin because of the knowledge of death, then this light takes away the power of the darkness.
Brethren, we are indeed all in the dark. Not because there is some sinful being jealous of God or man who has his own world and powers the same as YHWH to inflict us, but because we live off of our instincts to serve our flesh and by such we are naturally selfish. If we can learn how not to be selfish with such an adversary in our way, just think of what we will be like when this adversary is completely removed.
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Let’s not be confused, God formed the darkness of death, but we have since then created ourselves the sins that follow the darkness, instead of the light of God.
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
I believe scripture has made it pretty clear as to where darkness does indeed come from.
To cast off darkness is to make no provisions for the flesh, to fulfill it’s lust.
So then what could Paul be talking about in Ephesians 6, not wrestling with flesh and blood? We have been told all throughout Romans not to give into the flesh and be slaves of sin.
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and h
aving shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints–Who is Paul wrestling with? Who are the spiritual hosts of wickendness in the ‘heavenly’ places? Is this scripture declaring that which Paul is wrestling with is not flesh and blood? No it is not. When someone takes into account all that which the New Testament tells us and reads Ephesians 6 in the context of not only who wrote it but what was going on during the time then it is quite easily understood.
Christ has paid for our sins, he destroyed the enmity that was in our flesh. Though we cannot go completely without sin until God removes death from us, we are no longer under our flesh to serve it. God through Christ has lifted that slavery. Paul knowing this truth is telling us in Ephesians that he no longer has to wrestle with his flesh and blood and try to be perfect in the law, being a slave to his body. Paul has to wrestle with and so does all other believers with the rulers of the darkness of this age.
Paul is not a slave to his flesh and blood anymore, but at the time that Paul wrote this he was in prison, of which was according to the authority, principality and rulership and heavenly place/high position, of the Roman government who was heavily influenced by the high positioned Jews, who personally beat and battered Paul, and were responsible for putting him in prison.
This is why Paul says to the people in Ephesians, who would likely face persecution themselves, to put on the whole armor of God and to stand in truth and be prepared in God’s word so that on the day that the evil comes they will be ready to face the persecution.
Ephesians 6, no matter how far one would like to let their imagination go, instead of giving way to scripture and context, is not saying that we fight against celestial beings who come from a hidden dark kingdom.
The rulers of the darkness of that age were those people not in the light of Christ, the Jews and the Gentiles, the high positioned persons wanting to inflict those in the light.
Here are some more scriptures about man, evil and darkness. No mention or hint at some hidden celestial evil kingdom.
Psalms 82:1 God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”: 2 “How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3 Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4 Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5 “They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Proverbs 4:1 Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction; pay attention and gain understanding. 2 I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching. 3 When I was a boy in my father's house, still tender, and an only child of my mother, 4 he taught me and said, “Lay hold of my words with all your heart; keep my commands and you will live. 5 Get wisdom, get understanding; do not forget my words or swerve from them. 6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. 7 Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding. 8 Esteem her, and she will exalt you; embrace her, and she will honor you. 9 She will set a garland of grace on your head and present you with a crown of splendor.” 10 Listen, my son, accept what I say, and the years of your life will be many. 11 I guide you in the way of wisdom and lead you along straight paths. 12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered; when you run, you will not stumble. 13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; guard it well, for it is your life.
14 Do not set foot on the path of the wicked or walk in the way of evil men. 15 Avoid it, do not travel on it; turn from it and go on your way. 16 For they cannot sleep till they do evil; they are robbed of slumber till they make someone fall. 17 They eat the bread of wickedness and drink the wine of violence. 18 The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter till the full light of day. 19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness; they do not know what makes them stumble.
20 My son, pay attention to what I say; listen closely to my words. 21 Do not let them out of your sight, keep them within your heart; 22 for they are life to those who find them and health to a man's whole body. 23 Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life. 24 Put away perversity from your mouth; keep corrupt talk far from your lips. 25 Let your eyes look straight ahead, fix your gaze directly before you. 26 Make level paths for your feet and take only ways that are firm. 27 Do not swerve to the right or the left; keep your foot from evil.
Ecclesiastes 5:9 The increase from the land is taken by all; the king himself profits from the fields. 10 Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless. 11 As goods increase, so do those who consume them. And what benefit are they to the owner except to feast his eyes on them? 12 The sleep of a laborer is sweet, whether he eats little or much, but the abundance of a rich man permits him no sleep. 13 I have seen a grievous evil under the sun: wealth hoarded to the harm of its owner, 14 or wealth lost through some misfortune, so that when he has a son there is nothing left for him. 15 Naked a man comes from his mother's womb, and as he comes, so he departs. He takes nothing from his labor that he can carry in his hand. 16 This too is a grievous evil: As a man comes, so he departs, and what does he gain, since he toils for the wind? 17 All his days he eats in darkness, with great frustration, affliction and anger.
Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men. 14 Therefore once more I will astound these people with wonder upon wonder; the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.” 15 Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the Lord, who do their work in darkness and think, “Who sees us? Who will know?” 16 You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, “He did not make me”? Can the pot say of the potter, “He knows nothing”?July 22, 2008 at 7:20 pm#98621NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
So you agree there are demons?
Is their king thought to be Beelzebub?Jesus mentioned this matter.
July 22, 2008 at 9:19 pm#98635942767ParticipantQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2008,07:20) Hi Jodi,
So you agree there are demons?
Is their king thought to be Beelzebub?Jesus mentioned this matter.
Hi Nick:Jesus only mentioned Beelzebub in the context that he was being accused by the Pharisees:
Quote Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household?
Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mar 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
Luk 11:15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
Luk 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Luk 11:19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast [them] out? therefore shall they be your judgesHe did not necessarily agree that Beelzebub was a reality.
July 22, 2008 at 9:25 pm#98636NickHassanParticipantHi 94,
He mentioned Beelzebub himself.Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Luk 11:19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast [them] out? therefore shall they be your judges
If he wanted to deny such a being himself he had the perfect opportunity but did not do so.
But since that name does not appear in the several quoted in Revelation for Satan then I do not think it is a name for Satan but rather just what it says-chief of the devils or demons-an underling in Satans kingdom.
July 22, 2008 at 10:26 pm#98638NickHassanParticipantHi,
Does God blame Satan for man's fallen state?
No. Man is responsible for his own course in life in God's eyes.
Jesus revealed the source of our maladies and problems and equipped us to fight against them ourselves.
Obstructions and sufferings on the path are allowed to strengthen us and to make us follow scriptural choices.July 22, 2008 at 10:35 pm#98639NickHassanParticipantHi,
There was no point in God revealing to the helpless Israelites much about the existence of Satan.
Angelic beings are greater in so many ways than weak ignorant puny men.2Peter2
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
Only when the stronger one came to plunder his house and equip his followers to do the same was it useful information.
July 22, 2008 at 10:43 pm#98640JodiParticipantBeelzebub was a false god of the Philistines, so I don't really see Yeshua believing in false gods.
Yeshua healed people who were suffering from unclean spirits. Regardless of what people at that time per tested their belief as to the source of the unclean spirit, whether it be a false god or spirits of dead people, etc.. The point was that Yeshua could heal people from all things of which people were being inflicted with.
Those who were inflicted with demons were seen as suffering from something different from all other diseases and sicknesses. These people were acting crazy as if another person was inside of them and had control over the actual person. The authors use of the word demon was to relate to the type of infliction the person had. Demons at that time represented a wide category of different things, because people had different sorts of beliefs as to what was causing such infliction. We see in the bible the term used interchangeably with unclean spirit. We are never told that the demons or unclean spirits come from some hidden celestial dark force or kingdom. What we do know is that God brings upon man unclean spirits and evil spirits, and we are even directly told that God brings upon man such infirmities as madness.
The author used the word demon to let the reader know what sort of infirmity Yeshua was able to heal. Yeshua was able to heal the person who acted and behaved like a lunatic. A person cannot say that the use by the authors of the word demon, meant that they believed in the cause of the demons, because that was a general term at the time, as I previously mentioned.
Many Jews at the time, particularly the Pharisees, had been influenced by false religion into believing that other beings could also inflict man, besides just God. The bible is clear that this is not the case, and that these gods have no powers.
July 22, 2008 at 10:47 pm#98641JodiParticipantThere are no scriptures that talk about a kingdom of darkness where angels dwell and are against God, and control earth.
July 22, 2008 at 10:51 pm#98642NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
Did you think that kingdom was apart from earth and men?
Jesus came to establish the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven.
He came to take us from darkness to light and the dominion of Satan to that of God.Matthew 12:26
“If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?July 22, 2008 at 10:58 pm#98643NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
Jesus said this
“Luke 11:24
” When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.'You are not saying he was confused by pagan beliefs are you?
July 22, 2008 at 10:59 pm#98644JodiParticipantQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2008,15:51) Hi Jodi,
Did you think that kingdom was apart from earth and men?
Jesus came to establish the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven.
He came to take us from darkness to light and the dominion of Satan to that of God.Matthew 12:26
“If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
No I don't believe that the kingdom of darkness is apart from earth, if you bothered to read my post, which I apologize was indeed long, then you would have known that.Until you read my post, it would be better that you refrain from asking me questions. Thanks.
July 22, 2008 at 11:05 pm#98645NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
So Jesus identified the kingdom of Satan.
But you do not agree with him?July 22, 2008 at 11:17 pm#98647NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
Jesus said
Luke 11:18
“If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.Surely we should agree with the Master, who is TRUTH?
July 22, 2008 at 11:20 pm#98648NickHassanParticipantQuote (Jodi @ July 23 2008,10:43) Beelzebub was a false god of the Philistines, so I don't really see Yeshua believing in false gods. Yeshua healed people who were suffering from unclean spirits. Regardless of what people at that time per tested their belief as to the source of the unclean spirit, whether it be a false god or spirits of dead people, etc.. The point was that Yeshua could heal people from all things of which people were being inflicted with.
Those who were inflicted with demons were seen as suffering from something different from all other diseases and sicknesses. These people were acting crazy as if another person was inside of them and had control over the actual person. The authors use of the word demon was to relate to the type of infliction the person had. Demons at that time represented a wide category of different things, because people had different sorts of beliefs as to what was causing such infliction. We see in the bible the term used interchangeably with unclean spirit. We are never told that the demons or unclean spirits come from some hidden celestial dark force or kingdom. What we do know is that God brings upon man unclean spirits and evil spirits, and we are even directly told that God brings upon man such infirmities as madness.
The author used the word demon to let the reader know what sort of infirmity Yeshua was able to heal. Yeshua was able to heal the person who acted and behaved like a lunatic. A person cannot say that the use by the authors of the word demon, meant that they believed in the cause of the demons, because that was a general term at the time, as I previously mentioned.
Many Jews at the time, particularly the Pharisees, had been influenced by false religion into believing that other beings could also inflict man, besides just God. The bible is clear that this is not the case, and that these gods have no powers.
Hi Jodi,
So you do believe in unclean spirits?
Are these things just randomly living in people or are they subservient to Beelzebub?July 23, 2008 at 2:15 am#98669JodiParticipantNick I agree with Yeshua, your the one IMO,who doesn't!
Once again you ask questions that could be answered if you read my post or many of my past ones.
July 23, 2008 at 2:33 am#98673NickHassanParticipantHi Jodi,
So these are the spirits that spoke with Jesus?July 23, 2008 at 6:09 am#98713HanochParticipantWAIT A SECOND!!!!
…..
that's all.
July 23, 2008 at 6:17 am#98714HanochParticipantJodi, what you talkin about? God don't bring no spirit on you except His own Spirit!
Jesus DID say that “…the gates of hell will not prevail against it [the church].” and in doing so, He identified the source of the demons as being “the gates of hell”.
I do not believe anyone here knows too much about demons, the spirits of fallen angels, and evil spirits (the spirits of the sons, Nephilim, born to angels and humankind). We discussed this recently in another post… does anyone know what one that post is?
The Kingdom of God comes by the Spirit of God. If any other spirit is in charge, it is not of God's Kingdom – and is at odds with God's Kingdom, and will get slammed like a jabroni by God's Kingdom!! Like Nick said the Scriptures say, “A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand…” when speaking of satan's community.July 23, 2008 at 7:22 pm#98767NickHassanParticipantHi H,
The gates of Hades are the entranceway to this waiting place.
We in Christ do not belong there any more than our master did.
The mansions of Christ are rather the hope of the sons of God[Jn14]July 24, 2008 at 3:56 am#98807HanochParticipantthe gates of hell are the souls of hell.
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