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Hi,
It is amazing how folks can take one scripture about evil such as the one in James
and then try to stand on it alone to deny 100 others.
Is this appropriate?Quote (Hanoch @ July 17 2008,08:54) People who oppose the truth don't spend all day saying outrightly they oppose the truth; their lives are LIVED opposed to the truth. People who practice the truth don't spend all their time talking about it; they do alot of it.
Hi HanochWelcome!
People cannot do the truth until they know the truth! One cannot know the truth apart from talking!
Blessings! WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 16 2008,13:49) Jodi……> right on, sin is from man and came into the world by Adam as scripture says, not some spook or demon of some kind. No Satan and the devils are mankind witched and evil self not some celestial being or fallen angel some where. It's time people came out of the pagan deceptions and see things as they really are not with deluded unrealistic minds. Love to you and yours , hug the kids for me………….gene
Hi GB,
When Jesus said this in Mt 25” 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: “
was he not speaking the truth?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,09:15) Hi,
It is amazing how folks can take one scripture about evil such as the one in James
and then try to stand on it alone to deny 100 others.
Is this appropriate?
so trueNick…..First of all, you need to understand the time period mentioned , the time is When Jesus comes and gathers the nation at the beginning of (HIS) 1000 year reign , and these people will die and come up in the second resurrection and face the Lake of Fire (intense Judgment) of God as well as the angles, who are held in reserve for this judgement. Your problem is you don't realize the lake of fire is not a literal lake of fire as you are visioning it. I have explained that many times before and showed you many scriptures to prove it, go back and review them. Go to the web site Adam Posted and read that it might help you understand it.
IMO………..gene
Hi GB,
Can you show me where the 1000 year reign CONTAINS the second resurrection?
Lake of fire is not written as 'intense judgement' except by men.Do you believe it is some form of catholic purgatory?
Since the lake of fire represents “the second death” and since Revelation 20:14 says that both “death and Hades” are to be cast into it, it is evident that the lake cannot represent the death man has inherited from Adam (Ro 5:12), nor does it refer to Hades (Sheol). It must, therefore, be symbolic of another kind of death, one that is without reversal, for the record nowhere speaks of the “lake” as giving up those in it, as do Adamic death and Hades (Sheol). (Re 20:13) Those not found written in “the book of life,” unrepentant oposers of God’s sovereignty, are hurled into the lake of fire, meaning eternal destruction, or the second death.—Re 20:15
Nick….show me where is said the 1000 year period contained the second resurrection.
Those in the 1000 year period As Saint's reigning with Christ are the (FIRST) resurrection
Nick you need to try to pay closer attention to what is posted. And quite trying to put me into things i am not associated with , I do not believe in purgatory. Do i believe in a second resurrection YES, Do i believe God will throw His created Children into an ever burning literal lake of fire (NO) i don't. Now has this clarified my position so you need not to insinuate false things about me right.
Quote (dirtyknections @ July 17 2008,13:34) Since the lake of fire represents “the second death” and since Revelation 20:14 says that both “death and Hades” are to be cast into it, it is evident that the lake cannot represent the death man has inherited from Adam (Ro 5:12), nor does it refer to Hades (Sheol). It must, therefore, be symbolic of another kind of death, one that is without reversal, for the record nowhere speaks of the “lake” as giving up those in it, as do Adamic death and Hades (Sheol). (Re 20:13) Those not found written in “the book of life,” unrepentant oposers of God’s sovereignty, are hurled into the lake of fire, meaning eternal destruction, or the second death.—Re 20:15
You are right here, the Lake of Fire is the destruction of evil men. Also the earth is kept for the destruction of evil men. That concludes that the Lake of fire is meant literal. IMO
2 Peter 2:7 And the Heavens and the earth which now exist are kept in store, by the same word, reserved for fire, until the judgement and perdition of ungodly men. The second death from it there is no resurrection.
God is a merciful God and He will destroy all ungodly men and Satan plus Antichrist and the demons all will be thrown into the Lake of fire. The last will be death too will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Then God will create a New Heavens and a new earth, and God Himself will come down with the city the New Jerusalem. And we will be with the Lord for all eternity.
Peace and Love IreneHi Irene,
You say
“Also the earth is kept for the destruction of evil men. “
Do you mean duruing the great tribulation?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,14:00) Hi Irene,
You say
“Also the earth is kept for the destruction of evil men. “
Do you mean duruing the great tribulation?
No after the great tribulation. After the Millenium. IMO IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2008,14:06) Hi Irene,
So where?
The new earth is the home of the saved.[Rev21]
Malachi 4: 3
They will be ashes under your feet……Quote (Jodi @ July 17 2008,07:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2008,15:57) Hi Jodi,
Satan is the father of many opposers of truth.John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Sorry this is a bit long. But I hope everyone will still take the time to read it. I do appreciate those who do. Thanks.
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
You want to carry out your father's desires, your father the devil.
First and foremost, does this text sound like a person who is being accused of being a vessel to let an outside evil force come into them and cause them to sin?
NO!
This text is accusing the person of following the same desires of that which his father has had. We know that 'father' in the bible represents not just your immediate father, but a man of your heritage from long ago.
Does the bible tell us that Cain, the murderer and liar was a vessel controlled by another being?
NO!
Sin in every instance comes from within man's own mind. Man himself contemplates and thinks up evil. Man is the father of evil.
Man is the devil.Isa 33:15 He who walks righteously and speaks what is right, who rejects gain from extortion and keeps his hand from accepting bribes, who stops his ears against plots of murder and shuts his eyes against contemplating evil—
James 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Our sins come from within and those sins give birth to death.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death–that is, the devil—
If sin comes from within man, and sin gives birth to death, and the power of death is the devil, then the simple truth is not that the devil is some hidden manipulating evil celestial being, now is it?
Yes, scripture does actually require a person to think. The devil represents a man of sin.
Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
Brethern please notice it is GOD who placed the enmity into the serpent's seed
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
God CREATED the carnal mind, did he not?
Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Christ overcame through God's Spirit the pull of the carnal mind that leads us to sin, he followed not the creation, but the Creator, and through his death he put to death this enmity, when he was raised an immortal.
Thus Christ crushed the head of the serpent!
The carnal mind, is the mind that serves it's flesh. Why do we serve our flesh, because God brought on the enemy, the power of the knowledge of death.
The serpent seed was given enmity by God, which was he took the mind of man and gave it the knowledge of death. “you shall eat dust.” (snakes don't eat dust) our minds eat/take in dust/death. Did Adam and Eve have fear before they ate the tree? Were they consciously aware of what death was? Did they feel pain or suffering?
1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
Watch out, Nick and WJ, I am going to do some thinking again when I read the scriptures…I am actually going to THINK as I read.
He who holds the power of death is called the devil, who is him, that which holds the power of death?
Are we ever led to believe in scripture that some specific celestial being holds the powers of death?
No, most certainly not, no such scripture exists.
Ro 5:17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
Death reigned through the offense of MAN.
Why must you, Nick and WJ, continue to define the devil in a manner that the bible never indicates, but only that which we see from the traditional doctrine of the Christian Church?
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Is there anything in the bible given that tells us we are VESSELS of which other beings cause us to murder, lie and sin?
Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
If we are just vessels that cannot even tell when Satan/evil celestial being strikes, because that is his greatest deception, then why would WE be judged for our sin's committed in this way? We are not responsible for them. We would only be judged according to those sins of which we ourselves committed. Thus what ever the vessel manipulating being does HAS NO bearing on God's punishment towards us. When one applies this TRADITIONAL doctrine to scripture and uses the common sense God GAVE US, HOW FOOLISH is this doctrine? VERY!
I am waiting for someone to once again tell me that I think too much, I should not study the word over and over and connect scriptures and use my mind, of which God GAVE ME. I should just bow down to the traditional doctrine.
I refuse!
Your father the devil who was a murderer and a liar-
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, F4 unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judg
ment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.James 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
You murder and covet because your father is a celestial manipulating vessel?
No!
You murder because of your own desires and wanted pleasures.
1 John 3:11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.
Cain was not following God, but following his own works
Being of the wicked one, would be being of the serpent's seed.Ro 16:18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
By a persons own belly do they lie and deceive. What does that mean, well one has to THINK. Belly represents their own flesh.
Phil 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame–who set their mind on earthly things.
Genesis 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.
Cain served his belly, he served his flesh. He kept the good stuff for himself and did not give it to God. When God told him that he could do better like his brother Abel, his heart became angry and cold towards his brother, sin came crouching at his door as God warned him it would.
Don't let your flesh be your god and serve earthly things, learn to serve God. Overcome the fear of the grave and live for God's promise of immortality.
Psalms 44:25 For bowed to the dust hath our soul, Cleaved to the earth hath our belly. 26 Arise, a help to us, And ransom us for thy kindness' sake
God indeed has given us help, Christ has paid for our sins, and we can no longer live in fear of death, but in the promise of the resurrection.
OOPS, there I go again, thinking about what the scriptures say and mean and then putting them into my own words. I am such a heretic!
Colossians 3:8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The devil is the old man. The devil is not a celestial being who manipulates, deceives or influences man.
Matthew 12:34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Who is being referred to as being a serpent, and why are they being called such?
Men are being called vipers because out of the abundance of the heart their mouths speak evil, not because they are vessels being manipulated unknowingly. For how could they be judged under such conditions? Is our God, not a God of justice? Man is judged and condemned because it is man's heart from where he speaks lies. As man's mind was referred to as being a serpent in the Garden, he is yet again being referred to as such in Matthew.
WJ, and Nick don’t want to THINK about what the scriptures are saying. The want to plug them into their tradition. They don’t want anyone else to think either, they are like dictators, they want you to deny your mind, and blindly follow their tradition.
They want you to define words not through what scripture substantiates them to mean, but from what their traditions tell you they mean.
They accuse me of twisting and manipulating the scriptures and using my own reasoning to deny the simple truth so that I can apparently serve my own ego.
Where in scripture do we see the 'simple truth' that they speak of, where the devil is defined as some manipulating, vessel controlling, influencing evil celestial spirit, who holds the power of death?
Not only have I been yet to find it, but I have seen clear evidence that the devil does indeed represent something else entirely, which is man.
Jodi…..Amen, Amen, you nailed it , It amazes me how these blind guides can't see or understand that.
They are stuck in tradition of men and trying to say there represent the truth of Scriptures and they don't even understand it. Just puppets who don't use their GOD GIVEN MINDS of REASON and apply it to scripture and when the see someone us their God given minds guided by His spirit and produce understanding and logic of Scripture they start making all kinds of trash talk, but can not counter the sound logic given, they are simple void of understanding and logic.
They try to brand people who give there opinions as “wisdom of the world” or “human Logic” To try to make people look up to them as if 'THEY” have the true understanding when in fact they understand very little if nothing at all.
Excellent post Jodilove your logic and God given mind to know scripture………..gene
Hi Irene,
Mal4
1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Yes the Son will return after the great tribulation, the burning of the earth to rescue the remnant.
But that is the start of the millenium.
Irene……….God has concluded (ALL) under SIN , that HE might have (MERCY) on (ALL). Don't let fear rule your Heart , He who has began a work in you will see it unto completion, For the calling of God is (WITHOUT) revocation. For by GRACE are you saved and that (NOT) of thy self, it is a GIFT OF GOD, and again For He (works ) in Us (BOTH TO WILL)and (DO) His good pleasure. and again, he that is in you is greater then he that is in the world, And again He is the potter we are the clay. GOD is very capable of creating us the why He want to. Don't let fear monger get control of you heart and mind think positive God will never Forsake us He promised us that.
Love to you and yours………….gene
Hi GB,
You say
“God has concluded (ALL) under SIN , that HE might have (MERCY) on (ALL).”And then quote what was written to the saints in Phillipi who were fellowshiping in the gospel as if it applied to all men??
Phil1
5For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
God does not begin such work in the ungodly heathens but only in the saved who fellowship with Him.
Nick….. God is no (RESPECTER) of Persons. Show me where He exempts anyone, it says “God has concluded (ALL) under sin, that He might have (MERCY) on ALL”. Are telling me that is not in scripture then.
Nick …FACE IT YOU (HATE) THAT SCRIPTURE, You just cant believe God is going to have (MERCY) on EVERYONE. This deflates you IGO> But a little puny men like us will not tell God the Father what He will do, if He wants to save everyone then He will, why does that bother you.
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